v Blackpool (a) - 2/10/21

[chaddyrovers]

8 hours ago, Gav said:

The new strategy seems to be letting players walk out on free transfers?

Rothwell potentially off to Rangers in the press today.

what a load of tosh Gav. Rovers have offered these players new improve contracts. 

Rothwell link to Rangers was first reported on Sunday Morning Gav. 4 days ago

5 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

I think you are mistaken in the above scenario, its happening right across the football league not just at Ewood. Footballers are aware that the money trees are not going to be there if the FL get their way in respect of parachute payments and an agreement regarding tv money being more better shared amongst the lower leagues.

Most clubs have cut back financially this season and just look at how many non relegation teams bought players for money? not many. The vast majority of transfers this summer where loans and free transfers. 

4 hours ago, Gav said:

Only getting rid of the owners will achieve that goal 1864.

How are you going to get rid of them Gav?

2 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

I don’t waste my time on anything and I have more important things in my life to worry about. I believe that my approach was the right way and I hope it bears fruit. The plus side is that if I have been lied to and the information provided is a charade then imagine how that would now reflect on the club when it is fully documented both verbally and email ? I am not a fly by night reporter seeking a one hit wonder I want wholesale changes to my club and armed with the information that I already had, info from fellow fans and media sources I have now added the words of representatives from inside the club. I doubt very much that there would be any reason why the club would want further egg on their faces because it would attract a really negative slant on them

Thanks for sharing there and hope this does work out. Can I ask if you are part of this @darrenrovergroup or on your own/different group?

2 hours ago, Gav said:

we now can’t compete in the free transfer market

 

Says Who? 

Who would you wanted on a free transfer? Can you provided me with a list of these great free transfers we would have signed then @Gav? There is only a couple of players on the free market I would want here. Rest weren't going to improve us.

[lraC]

6 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

I don’t waste my time on anything and I have more important things in my life to worry about. I believe that my approach was the right way and I hope it bears fruit. The plus side is that if I have been lied to and the information provided is a charade then imagine how that would now reflect on the club when it is fully documented both verbally and email ? I am not a fly by night reporter seeking a one hit wonder I want wholesale changes to my club and armed with the information that I already had, info from fellow fans and media sources I have now added the words of representatives from inside the club. I doubt very much that there would be any reason why the club would want further egg on their faces because it would attract a really negative slant on them

Be careful. Your information could turn into one of them blogs that you don’t believe in. The writer of one blog, also had information from inside the club, including then current players and employees and yet you suggested yesterday, it was pretty much made up. 

[Blue blood]

4 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I don't agree with 1864 about the contract situation, Mowbray more or less admitted himself in the LT that the players in question hadn't been offered improved deals when they should have been because he didn't want to upset the rest of the squad.  Well - tough for them  - not all players earn the same.

We've also run a vastly bloated squad for the last few seasons and inferior players have repeatedly been given deals when they shouldn't have been.

There's only so much money we're allowed to spend, Mowbray and Waggott are paid to manage the squad, they agree the budget with the owners and it's their job to sort it out.

There's also the likelihood that said players aren't inclined to sign new deals under a  lame duck manager, coaching staff and CEO and might be prepared to take a bit less if they thought we were going places under a different manager.

Nyambe in particular, Rothwell and Brereton have all been appallingly treated by Mowbray at various points as well - it's probably a case of trying to shut the stable door well after the horse has bolted with them but we're a new manager to come in they liked you never know.

The horse hasn't just bolted it's buggered off out of the county and is sipping on a pint somewhere near Dover. 

Nayambe has been dropped for every man and his dog, including some pretty substandard players such as Caddis and Bennett. 

Rothwell has played in more positions in midfield than I thought was feasibly possible. He also had a fair few years of bouncing in and out of the team. 

Bereton was woefully out of his depth for 2 years and horribly mismanaged during that time. Game time via a loan away was obvious to everyone and yet it never came. 

Also all three have directly and indirectly criticised by TM in the media. Poor do when others haven't. 

The evidence suggests that we aren't offering the going rate and we are unarguably starting negotiations far too late into the contracts. All in all we have set ourselves up to fail in these negotiations. 

The only plus is we have so few players now that they are guaranteed game time. But too little too late I fear. 

[1864roverite]

1 hour ago, lraC said:

Be careful. Your information could turn into one of them blogs that you don’t believe in. The writer of one blog, also had information from inside the club, including then current players and employees and yet you suggested yesterday, it was pretty much made up. 

I don’t write blogs and as I have outlined a lot of research has been done from a variety of sources from which I have been able so far to dispel rumour speculation utter shite to then evaluate everything I have learned. It’s been a relatively easy exercise weeding the shit out of the equation !

[bluebruce]

8 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

The plus side is that if I have been lied to and the information provided is a charade then imagine how that would now reflect on the club when it is fully documented both verbally and email ?

Well, it won't mean a thing if you don't put it in the public domain. Why can't you share these emails if you're theoretically willing to in future?

[47er]

11 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

I think you are mistaken in the above scenario, its happening right across the football league not just at Ewood

Well we're OK then! If your'e correct, these players of our's will have nowhere to go and they'll have to come back to us and accept what we originally offered them.

What's the chances of this happening do you think?

[USABlue]

On 02/10/2021 at 10:26, simongarnerisgod said:

every rovers fan with eyesight can see he is`nt good enough,yet our esteemed manager has a different view

Mind clamping isn't   Like a lot with  ToMo

[lraC]

5 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

I don’t write blogs and as I have outlined a lot of research has been done from a variety of sources from which I have been able so far to dispel rumour speculation utter shite to then evaluate everything I have learned. It’s been a relatively easy exercise weeding the shit out of the equation !

Exactly the same as Glen Mullan then? Okay you don’t write blogs, but spend plenty of time on here, telling us all about it, but actually telling us nothing, in reality. 

[lraC]

5 hours ago, 47er said:

Well we're OK then! If your'e correct, these players of our's will have nowhere to go and they'll have to come back to us and accept what we originally offered them.

What's the chances of this happening do you think?

Let me answer that. A big fat zero.

[roversinmyblood]

On 06/10/2021 at 09:40, 1864roverite said:

When the player refuses to sign a contract who is to blame in all reality? The Rothwell contract isnt something that was offered last week it has been there for 12 months or even more, he refused to sign it. He allegedly pulled out of a medical having been ready to sign for a club in South Yorks at the last minute so I don't think blame can be levelled at anyone, its the players right not to sign. Similarly with AA, a contract was on the table from last year, he wanted a move and declined to sign the new deal. It is no ones fault at all.

Yes but everyone has a “price” it’s just that we don’t seem to want to pay him what his agent thinks he’s worth. I guess that it would disrupt their pay structure leading to demands for more money from other players. If not then the lost transfer fee would I’m sure make up for the extra pay. If he was fully signed up he must be worth at least £1M probably even £2M. £1M is about £5000 a week extra for four years(if my maths is correct), which would surely be enough extra to keep him. 

[roversinmyblood]

On 06/10/2021 at 15:12, 1864roverite said:

Lets wait and see, as I have made clear the proof will be in the pudding. I intend to take up the invite later this year to return and see how things may have progressed and what the status of the other suggested changes is.

1864, are these changes that we as fans will notice and be heartened by?

[Oldgregg86]

28 minutes ago, roversinmyblood said:

1864, are these changes that we as fans will notice and be heartened by?

Depends how many pies you buy

[JacknOry]

17 hours ago, roversinmyblood said:

Yes but everyone has a “price” it’s just that we don’t seem to want to pay him what his agent thinks he’s worth. I guess that it would disrupt their pay structure leading to demands for more money from other players. If not then the lost transfer fee would I’m sure make up for the extra pay. If he was fully signed up he must be worth at least £1M probably even £2M. £1M is about £5000 a week extra for four years(if my maths is correct), which would surely be enough extra to keep him. 

How much do you think he is on considering we bought him from L1? This is what I cannot understand. He is probably on peanuts compared to donkeys like Gallagher yet we cannot cough up enough to entice him to stay. The lad is 27, this contract is probably going to one of his last one or two - of course he wants a figure that puts him on a parity with others - I highly doubt he is asking to be the highest earner in the squad, just to be put on a decent Championship contract, something he hasn't had despite playing in the league for a few seasons now. 

As for Nyambe, the kid is on 5k per week and we cannot even get him to sign? What we offering, 6k per week?

So what pay structures would we be breaking with those two? They are among our lowest earners - its complete horseshit about pay structures. Yet we can pay more than we pay them to bring in 18 year old loans that are shite and not ours. Id rather sign them down and play our own kids.

Edited October 8, 2021 by JacknOry

[tomphil]

I thought the whole idea of the wages pecking order Mowbray has created was to encourage lads to progress. Then their pay goes up comparative to others and so on.

If academy graduates and cheap signings are on 3/5/7k  they are surely justified up they want to go to 5/6/10k ?

Question is are they worth that us to us and i'd say yes in Nyambes case but 10k pwk+ is probably easily on offer at some other clubs as well.  Its seemed all along with a few of these that Rovers have been steering them towards the door.

We'll be offering a couple of grand extra whilst hinting the players and their agents are wanting treble their current packet.

Truth will be in the middle somewhere but i reckon the players might want to stay more than Rovers actually want them to.

[JHRover]

One of the reasons I want Mowbray and Waggott out of the club as soon as possible is that they have overseen this outrageous situation on contracts and wages.

Let it not be forgotten, as much as they would like to erase everything before this season, that they authorised contract extensions for Graham, Leutwiler, Samuel, Smallwood and Downing in the summer of 2020 for no reason other than they wanted to be nice and for the lads to finish the season off together. How nice.

I'd have had no particular issue with that decision if those players were integral to our season and we were relying on them to help us finish strongly. But when push came to shove they barely featured or were limited to a few sub appearances. Beyond that there was no intention of keeping them past the end of the season and all were released that summer (except Downing who was mucked around before we finally offered him a new deal months later).

Fast forward a little over 12 months and all of a sudden I am supposed to accept or sympathise with the claim that we cannot afford to pay the likes of Nyambe more than he is on? Well I'm afraid I don't.  What an absolute pigs ear these charlatans have made of things. Plenty of cash sloshing around to be nice to Smallwood and Gladwin but not enough to pay Nyambe the going rate for a now senior Championship RB.

I think the only thing that annoys me more than the above is the amount of Rovers supporters who just instantly leap to a position of believing the Waggott excuses - that these players or their agents are making unreasonable demands that poor old Rovers simply can't comply with and that they are doing their bit to 'protect' the club and owners from such greed.

Another one that annoys me are the FFP brigade, who spend every opportunity reminding us about how constrained we are by these rules, how we are close to the limits, how the poor owners can't put more in to sign new players. Yet allowing assets like Nyambe to run their contracts down is just about the worst thing you can do if concerned by FFP. We've put the hard yards and investment into him, got him to a stage where he would be worth millions, then shot ourrselves in the foot by allowing him to go for nothing. On top of that we then have to replace him with no money - we all know it will be another teenager on loan.

It's nonsense, yet so many just believe it. Just like people believed the bullshit from Mowbray about Patrick Bauer's agent demanding £40,000 a week to come here and wanting guaranteed starts. Lies lies lies as proven by him soon after joining thrifty PNE.

Sooner we are rid of these charlatans the better.

[chaddyrovers]

5 hours ago, JHRover said:

I think the only thing that annoys me more than the above is the amount of Rovers supporters who just instantly leap to a position of believing the Waggott excuses - that these players or their agents are making unreasonable demands that poor old Rovers simply can't comply with and that they are doing their bit to 'protect' the club and owners from such greed.

well every fan is entitled to their view just like you JH. 

 

5 hours ago, JHRover said:

Another one that annoys me are the FFP brigade

And you wanted to keep spending and go into an embargo if memory serves me right. 

Rovers have to be careful this summer in terms of spending and not going to into embargo this season. Then next season we will be able to spend some money after we lose season 1 spending where we spend 9 to 10 million pounds. 

 

[broadsword]

Just been reading a piece in the guardian about the Newcastle takeover. It's written by a Geordie. 

 

One line stood out... 

"Without fantasy, football becomes meaningless" 

 

The last eleven years have been devoted of meaning then at Ewood. The only fantasy I have is of Waggott dropping dead, and Venky's selling up.

[Blue blood]

7 hours ago, JHRover said:

One of the reasons I want Mowbray and Waggott out of the club as soon as possible is that they have overseen this outrageous situation on contracts and wages.

Let it not be forgotten, as much as they would like to erase everything before this season, that they authorised contract extensions for Graham, Leutwiler, Samuel, Smallwood and Downing in the summer of 2020 for no reason other than they wanted to be nice and for the lads to finish the season off together. How nice.

I'd have had no particular issue with that decision if those players were integral to our season and we were relying on them to help us finish strongly. But when push came to shove they barely featured or were limited to a few sub appearances. Beyond that there was no intention of keeping them past the end of the season and all were released that summer (except Downing who was mucked around before we finally offered him a new deal months later).

Fast forward a little over 12 months and all of a sudden I am supposed to accept or sympathise with the claim that we cannot afford to pay the likes of Nyambe more than he is on? Well I'm afraid I don't.  What an absolute pigs ear these charlatans have made of things. Plenty of cash sloshing around to be nice to Smallwood and Gladwin but not enough to pay Nyambe the going rate for a now senior Championship RB.

I think the only thing that annoys me more than the above is the amount of Rovers supporters who just instantly leap to a position of believing the Waggott excuses - that these players or their agents are making unreasonable demands that poor old Rovers simply can't comply with and that they are doing their bit to 'protect' the club and owners from such greed.

Another one that annoys me are the FFP brigade, who spend every opportunity reminding us about how constrained we are by these rules, how we are close to the limits, how the poor owners can't put more in to sign new players. Yet allowing assets like Nyambe to run their contracts down is just about the worst thing you can do if concerned by FFP. We've put the hard yards and investment into him, got him to a stage where he would be worth millions, then shot ourrselves in the foot by allowing him to go for nothing. On top of that we then have to replace him with no money - we all know it will be another teenager on loan.

It's nonsense, yet so many just believe it. Just like people believed the bullshit from Mowbray about Patrick Bauer's agent demanding £40,000 a week to come here and wanting guaranteed starts. Lies lies lies as proven by him soon after joining thrifty PNE.

Sooner we are rid of these charlatans the better.

Brilliant, brilliant post. Top marks!

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

well every fan is entitled to their view just like you JH. 

 

And you wanted to keep spending and go into an embargo if memory serves me right. 

 

Hang on at no point in that post does he advocate spending into embargo. It's a bit naughty to bring this up when it isn't any part of the post and certainly not the only alternative to our ffp ahem, "policy". In fact the alternatives in one respect don't impact the critique of the current situation. IE the merits of our policy (ha ha)

Plus even if he did mention it previously any engagement with the rational for doing so, as JH seems to elaborate on his points well - as oppose to sarky comments and missing the point of others posts. 

[JHRover]

5 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

well every fan is entitled to their view just like you JH. 

 

And you wanted to keep spending and go into an embargo if memory serves me right. 

Rovers have to be careful this summer in terms of spending and not going to into embargo this season. Then next season we will be able to spend some money after we lose season 1 spending where we spend 9 to 10 million pounds. 

 

We went into an embargo didn't we?

What difference would an embargo have made to our summer transfer business?

With or without we would still have been able to sign all the loans. 

[chaddyrovers]

On 08/10/2021 at 21:54, JHRover said:

We went into an embargo didn't we?

no we didn't cos we didn't over spend in this summer window that would have put Rovers into another embargo. We still some money left to bring in a new striker in January. 

On 08/10/2021 at 21:54, JHRover said:

What difference would an embargo have made to our summer transfer business?

Well the EFL have to approve every deal, no loan fees can be paid and you are limited to 10k a week in wages. Plus no transfer fees can be paid. Meaning we wouldn't have signed Edun from Lincoln. 

Just look at Derby's summer signings cos they were in embargo and you would be happy with them. Tell me alot. Even when you look this summer free transfer/out of contract signings clubs made they weren't great quality in my opinion apart from a couple of players like Sonny Bradley and Ryan Woods. 

Rovers have to be more financial sensible and smarter in the transfer markets where we find these gems of players in the markets we are looking in. Given John Park's scouting and recruitment experience and knowledge should be able to find these players along with the rest of the scouts and recruitment analysis staff

[roversfan99]

We may aswell have been in an embargo to be fair, we were in a self inflicted one, whereby we could only bring in kids on cheap, heavily sponsored loans who don't seem of the calibre to improve us particularly, whilst our self inflicted strict wage cap will see numerous valuable assets leave on frees.

[JHRover]

8 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

no we didn't cos we didn't over spend in this summer window that would have put Rovers into another embargo. We still some money left to bring in a new striker in January. 

Well the EFL have to approve every deal, no loan fees can be paid and you are limited to 10k a week in wages. Plus no transfer fees can be paid. Meaning we wouldn't have signed Edun from Lincoln. 

Just look at Derby's summer signings cos they were in embargo and you would be happy with them. Tell me alot. Even when you look this summer free transfer/out of contract signings clubs made they weren't great quality in my opinion apart from a couple of players like Sonny Bradley and Ryan Woods. 

Rovers have to be more financial sensible and smarter in the transfer markets where we find these gems of players in the markets we are looking in. Given John Park's scouting and recruitment experience and knowledge should be able to find these players along with the rest of the scouts and recruitment analysis staff

Ah right. So being under an embargo might have stopped us signing a full back from Lincoln? Thank the lord we didn't!

We were under an embargo. It was released early on in the summer. You know this, let's not pretend it didn't happen.

Speaking of "more financially sensible" in our future dealings you can't be comfortable that the people running it are the same who authorised contracts for Gladwin, Smallwood, Hart and Leutwiler because it was nice.

 

[chaddyrovers]

43 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Ah right. So being under an embargo might have stopped us signing a full back from Lincoln? Thank the lord we didn't!

Doesn't matter who we sign but any embargo means no cash buys or loan fees for us. Alot of players who were out of contract last summer wouldn't have improve our squad. Plus just look at the Embargo at Derby and who they signed there. 

46 minutes ago, JHRover said:

We were under an embargo. It was released early on in the summer. You know this, let's not pretend it didn't happen.

Waggott explained what happened earlier on in the summer so unless you can prove otherwise then we go with what we know. 

56 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Speaking of "more financially sensible" in our future dealings you can't be comfortable that the people running it are the same who authorised contracts for Gladwin, Smallwood, Hart and Leutwiler because it was nice.

I was talking in terms of transfers fees and finding bargains out there like Edun or Kaminski in the first place 

That's contract extensions were unique situation for Rovers. We moved on from there now. We were more financially and footballing sensible this summer like cutting the deadwood here 

[roversfan99]

More financially sensible ie restricting your self imposed wage cap so strictly that your key assets leave for free.

[lraC]

On 05/10/2021 at 15:59, 1864roverite said:

I haven’t seen any evidence of what you claim only speculation and what appeared in the media. I know a lot of people made suggestions of underhand behaviour but did they ever produce anything of value to substantiate the claims or allegations ? It’s difficult to understand whether there was wholesale  ripping off of venkys and Brfc or whether it was an alternative model of criminality by the owners ! Suffice to say whatever happened bought the mistrust of the owners who for reasons known only to them refuse to acknowledge it publicly.

O2.pdfO2.pdfThis could be fabricated, but I believe this is genuine.