v Blackpool (a) - 2/10/21

[1864roverite]

I have never come across this in any of the investigations that I have had the opportunity to look at not have I ever been told in conversation about it in the context of the actual text

[tomphil]

That text was floating around at the time and Salgado himself was happy to tell his version to anyone who asked.

[bluebruce]

6 hours ago, lraC said:

O2.pdfO2.pdfThis could be fabricated, but I believe this is genuine.

Jesus, paying up 80 percent of the contract for a bunch of experienced players you'll definitely need to replace is hardly saving money. But Anderson et al knew that, they just wanted their tickets to the gravy train. Such a den of snakes.

Tbh though if Venkys weren't in some sense complicit, why haven't they sued by now? This charlatan's 'advice' has cost them an absolute fortune.

[lraC]

2 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Jesus, paying up 80 percent of the contract for a bunch of experienced players you'll definitely need to replace is hardly saving money. But Anderson et al knew that, they just wanted their tickets to the gravy train. Such a den of snakes.

Tbh though if Venkys weren't in some sense complicit, why haven't they sued by now? This charlatan's 'advice' has cost them an absolute fortune.

Read the Mowbray thread and you will see some alternative views.

[lraC]

5 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

I have never come across this in any of the investigations that I have had the opportunity to look at not have I ever been told in conversation about it in the context of the actual text

See the post made by Tomphil. Solgado has and I believe still is, happy to go on record to confirm it is genuine.

[lraC]

6 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

I have never come across this in any of the investigations that I have had the opportunity to look at not have I ever been told in conversation about it in the context of the actual text

You might remember I recommended you read a blog, entitled Rovers Revisited. That text is on there and I am sure as can be that it is genuine.

Not only that, there is a very upsetting E Mail sent to Paul Gahan at Lancashire Police. This was sent due to the writer of the blog fearing for his own safety and the safety of his family. Pretty scary stuff and easy enough to be checked for it’s authenticity, for anyone who desires.

[1864roverite]

Without casting any doubt on its authenticity I have never seen or heard of anyone being convicted or arrested in relation to any alleged conspiracy, threats to harm or worse, theft, fraud or corporate misconduct especially in relation to serious company fraud. This alone tells me there is a serious lack of evidence to support any prosecution. 
Personally I have my own thoughts and opinions on what may or may not have gone on and I have no doubt there has been criminal activity by some and probably involves the names of those we know or suspect we know about.

There is no little point in looking backwards if you ask me, it’s about the immediate and long term future of our club and what lies beyond.

If I recall there were a few highly placed people who were onboard with claims of improper conduct and/or criminality however that didn’t seem to take anything further forwards in respect of incriminating an individual or group of people and since then those voices have long disappeared.

For my point of view I understand what I have learned and what I have been told by representatives of the club. The proof will be in the pudding as it were and I look forward to a future meeting to see how progress, if any, has been made.

[oldjamfan1]

8 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Without casting any doubt on its authenticity I have never seen or heard of anyone being convicted or arrested in relation to any alleged conspiracy, threats to harm or worse, theft, fraud or corporate misconduct especially in relation to serious company fraud. This alone tells me there is a serious lack of evidence to support any prosecution. 
Personally I have my own thoughts and opinions on what may or may not have gone on and I have no doubt there has been criminal activity by some and probably involves the names of those we know or suspect we know about.

There is no little point in looking backwards if you ask me, it’s about the immediate and long term future of our club and what lies beyond.

If I recall there were a few highly placed people who were onboard with claims of improper conduct and/or criminality however that didn’t seem to take anything further forwards in respect of incriminating an individual or group of people and since then those voices have long disappeared.

For my point of view I understand what I have learned and what I have been told by representatives of the club. The proof will be in the pudding as it were and I look forward to a future meeting to see how progress, if any, has been made.

Phew.

[lraC]

Sadly I think we do have to look back, as what has gone on cannot be ignored. It’s highly likely that the evidence was not quite sufficient to bring a criminal prosecution, but that does not mean things did not happen. Look at the Blatter and Platini situation and how that looked similar in some ways, at one point. What if they had got away with it, would we have let them loose to carry on, due to not wanting to look back.

The things that have gone on over 11 years are horrible and it makes me wonder if the club will ever return to what it once was.

[Gav]

20 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

For my point of view I understand what I have learned and what I have been told by representatives of the club. The proof will be in the pudding as it were and I look forward to a future meeting to see how progress, if any, has been made.

In terms of the proof being in the pudding and future meetings, you’ve fallen at the first hurdle 1864, they’ve transferred the training ground to a bogus company and you knew nothing about it.

I’m not attacking you, I’m just point out they’re already keeping you in the dark and for me that’s unacceptable.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Gav

[arbitro]

42 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Without casting any doubt on its authenticity I have never seen or heard of anyone being convicted or arrested in relation to any alleged conspiracy, threats to harm or worse, theft, fraud or corporate misconduct especially in relation to serious company fraud. This alone tells me there is a serious lack of evidence to support any prosecution. 
Personally I have my own thoughts and opinions on what may or may not have gone on and I have no doubt there has been criminal activity by some and probably involves the names of those we know or suspect we know about.

There is no little point in looking backwards if you ask me, it’s about the immediate and long term future of our club and what lies beyond.

If I recall there were a few highly placed people who were onboard with claims of improper conduct and/or criminality however that didn’t seem to take anything further forwards in respect of incriminating an individual or group of people and since then those voices have long disappeared.

For my point of view I understand what I have learned and what I have been told by representatives of the club. The proof will be in the pudding as it were and I look forward to a future meeting to see how progress, if any, has been made.

Weren't Kamy and Glen Mullan threatened by some people for digging around? Their investigations clearly had somebody worried as to what they might find.

[1864roverite]

38 minutes ago, Gav said:

In terms of the proof being in the pudding and future meetings, you’ve fallen at the first hurdle 1864, they’ve transferred the training ground to a bogus company and you knew nothing about it.

I’m not attacking you, I’m just point out they’re already keeping you in the dark and for me that’s unacceptable.

Bogus company? It’s correctly and properly registered under companies house and who says I wasn’t aware of it happening or had some knowledge of the business deal?

So, no, despite your view I haven’t  failed at any hurdle, in fact I am probably further down the road than I thought I would be!

[Gav]

1 minute ago, 1864roverite said:

Bogus company? It’s correctly and properly registered under companies house and who says I wasn’t aware of it happening or had some knowledge of the business deal?

So, no, despite your view I haven’t  failed at any hurdle, in fact I am probably further down the road than I thought I would be!

You were fully aware of the training ground being removed from the clubs books?

[1864roverite]

8 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Weren't Kamy and Glen Mullan threatened by some people for digging around? Their investigations clearly had somebody worried as to what they might find.

My point being that I cannot comment on whether Glen and others received threats or by whom they were allegedly made. I do know that no one was arrested, charged or convicted for any offence and before it is said, I do not dispute anything claimed by those involved.

I have spoke to Glen on many occasions in the Brown Cow in the early days so I am pretty certain I am aware on his stance and views. A committed and fervent supporter of the club like many of us and despite what has gone before he still gets behind the team at the ground.

[1864roverite]

1 minute ago, Gav said:

You were fully aware of the training ground being removed from the clubs books?

What I was or not aware of is of little concern to anyone but me Gav

[47er]

2 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

Without casting any doubt on its authenticity I have never seen or heard of anyone being convicted or arrested in relation to any alleged conspiracy, threats to harm or worse, theft, fraud or corporate misconduct especially in relation to serious company fraud. This alone tells me there is a serious lack of evidence to support any prosecution. 
Personally I have my own thoughts and opinions on what may or may not have gone on and I have no doubt there has been criminal activity by some and probably involves the names of those we know or suspect we know about.

There is no little point in looking backwards if you ask me, it’s about the immediate and long term future of our club and what lies beyond.

If I recall there were a few highly placed people who were onboard with claims of improper conduct and/or criminality however that didn’t seem to take anything further forwards in respect of incriminating an individual or group of people and since then those voices have long disappeared.

For my point of view I understand what I have learned and what I have been told by representatives of the club. The proof will be in the pudding as it were and I look forward to a future meeting to see how progress, if any, has been made.

We have been through this aspect many times. Its not primarily about criminal behaviour although some has been alleged.

Its about breaking the rules, acting inappropriately, whether these allegations can be held to show that the owners are unfit.

Its not about the criminal threshold of "beyond reasonable" doubt but the civil one of "on the balance of probabilities".

So, no-one seriously expected anyone to be arrested. We just want the football authorities to have the

guts to do what they are paid handsomely to do---manage football in the interests of the game.

Edited November 8, 2021 by 47er

[1864roverite]

Whether it be the criminal or civil threshold the fact remains that in both scenarios and/or cases there was insufficient evidence to proceed hence why no one has been convicted !

I am 100% certain that if such cases existed with evidence to proceed the footballing authority and any other prosecution agency would have taken it further. 

[Gav]

11 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

What I was or not aware of is of little concern to anyone but me Gav

You've just given us the answer 1864..

Having read your posts over the past few months, like many down at Ewood these days, you wouldn't have been able to contain yourself with that news bursting to get out, yet not a peep, which tells its own story.

I'm not having a go at you, I really do hope you or someone else can make a difference, but this road is well trodden, billionaire owners don't listen to Joe public, they're above that.

44 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Whether it be the criminal or civil threshold the fact remains that in both scenarios and/or cases there was insufficient evidence to proceed hence why no one has been convicted !

I am 100% certain that if such cases existed with evidence to proceed the footballing authority and any other prosecution agency would have taken it further. 

You're having a laugh right?

The Premiership couldn't wait to get us out of that league so they didn't have to deal with it. Look at the Saudi takeover at Newcastle, nothing to see here, other than ££££££££.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Gav

[47er]

1 hour ago, 1864roverite said:

Whether it be the criminal or civil threshold the fact remains that in both scenarios and/or cases there was insufficient evidence to proceed hence why no one has been convicted !

I am 100% certain that if such cases existed with evidence to proceed the footballing authority and any other prosecution agency would have taken it further. 

Gav’s  right, you are having a laugh. Plenty of information was put to the football authorities to draw the conclusion that they were unfit owners. It suited them to ignore it.

Always be “insufficient evidence” for that lot.

[1864roverite]

2 hours ago, Gav said:

You've just given us the answer 1864..

Having read your posts over the past few months, like many down at Ewood these days, you wouldn't have been able to contain yourself with that news bursting to get out, yet not a peep, which tells its own story.

I'm not having a go at you, I really do hope you or someone else can make a difference, but this road is well trodden, billionaire owners don't listen to Joe public, they're above that.

You're having a laugh right?

The Premiership couldn't wait to get us out of that league so they didn't have to deal with it. Look at the Saudi takeover at Newcastle, nothing to see here, other than ££££££££.

You cant have a go at me, I haven't done anything wrong nor do you know me.

As for not being able to contain myself, well I am not too sure about how you come to that reasoning. If you get told a whole lot of things, some which can be shared, some which are private and confidential then that has to be respected in my view. There is of course the issue of who you decide to then share any information and in what circle that you choose to. 

I chose to keep what some of the things I was told and learned private, I chose to share with a few other close friends who go to football with me and I chose to share some information with fellow fans some from this forum and others from another, people who I knew I could trust, some who I knew and some who I had had contact with over many years.

Forgive me if I ruined your perception of blurting information willy nilly.

Your suggestion that our owners do not listen is misguided and dont get me wrong, probably based on previous experiences and one which I would probably have the same thought until I got to the point I did with my research, investigation and then contact with the powers that be. I am not going to try and get people to change their views on them its not my mantra or ambition, however I will say they have appeared to change tact on a number of issues that concern the club and its football operations. Whether you choose to accept that is down to you. If they are above the fans ten why the hell would they make a personal invite to converse with further invites already planned?

 

For me its about my love of BRFC, to rid the fans of some utter shite speculation that finds itself rabid amongst fans forums and the like, to improve communication between the club and fans and to ensure that there is a future for our club. I have been able to air my concerns which mirror each and every Rovers fan be you from Blackburn or afar. Its about getting the truth and seeing things improving and thus seeing the club progress from the mess it has become over 11 years of total mismanagement, discord, discontent and whatever else one wants to describe it as.

You talk about the PL wanting rid of Rovers? Where exactly do you get this from? From word of mouth, personal view or have you tangible evidence to say that it is 100% right and correct? the Pl made it clear there was nothing to investigate at the time or since. There was never anything other to support it. The EFL and FA are in exactly the same position. 

I am aware of a financial investigation that took place, there is a very reputable member of this forum, often lambasted and caned for his views on here, who also has that knowledge. Whilst those enquiries were made in relation to allegations of payments and missing monies, nothing I repeat nothing was ever found sufficient enough to implicate any person or to bring a case to a court of law, be it civil or criminal.

 

 

 

[Gav]

All very admirable, I would question where you've been for the last 11yrs 1864, but I wish you all the best, you're going to need it.

Ps - The training ground has been sold once, can't be sold again unless to developers, if you find out whats next, give us the heads up please.

Cheers.

[1864roverite]

In answering your question Gav

For part of the past 11 years I was in a job where I couldn't do anything about it, sadly the rules I had to abide by at the time ruled. Now retired from that particular employment after almost 30 years with them, I found myself free to actually do what I am good at and investigate, the main intention to ensure speculation and rumour where never in front of the truth, because the truth is all that matters to me in terms of our football club.

So, a couple of years ago I set off on that particular ambition and to date I have been quite content with what I understand to be truth rather than relying on the large amount of speculation/misinformation and utter shite that we often see being banded about without any shred of reliability. It was quit a simple process separating it all because so many others had done a lot before I even considered doing what I did.

Its not a one man show, its not a crusade. I genuinely fear for the future of my club, it is as simple as that.

I am lucky to have good contacts, I can get information from people, I can summarise, I can analyse and review and I can bring my own conclusions about what has actually happened. Added to speaking to the club directly I am relatively suited at our current situation however I will reiterate, I am firmly behind a change of manager and a change in the make up of the board. Whilst I am not happy with what has gone before, it is the future that matters to me more than looking backwards, we cannot change it we can only hope the lessons are learned.

As crass as it may appear to some who are ill informed or not in possession of facts from the research, from what others have done and continue to do in concern for BRFC, I am content there is a future, there is support and there is most certainly financial backing at the club from the owners.

Its a continuing ambition of mine because at the end of the day, my heart runs Blue and White. Being born and bred a short distance away from Ewood makes me even more determined to ensure there is change. Furthermore, if I ever did uncover any improper or criminal conduct you can be assured it would be taken forward.

[Gav]

23 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

I am lucky to have good contacts, I can get information from people, I can summarise, I can analyse and review and I can bring my own conclusions about what has actually happened. Added to speaking to the club directly I am relatively suited at our current situation however I will reiterate, I am firmly behind a change of manager and a change in the make up of the board. Whilst I am not happy with what has gone before, it is the future that matters to me more than looking backwards, we cannot change it we can only hope the lessons are learned.

As crass as it may appear to some who are ill informed or not in possession of facts from the research, from what others have done and continue to do in concern for BRFC, I am content there is a future, there is support and there is most certainly financial backing at the club from the owners.

You are aware that this path is well trodden, investigations have been carried out, documents presented to governing bodies by posters from this very site, stonewalled, no other word for it. 

From the points highlighted above, you clearly have faith in the owners, despite everything that has gone before, despite the financial taps obviously having been tuned off, despite losing £140m, despite knocking 10,000 off the gate and I could go on.

Those who fail to learn from history are destined to repeat it.

 

[1864roverite]

Absolutely aware of most things that gone on.

My faith is simply looking at everything from every angle, reviewing it, analysis and then looking at the intentions and plans as were outlined.

Do I have ultimate faith? No not yet based on previous history- will it change?  I will wait and see.

Do I believe the latest ambition and forward plans ? I haven’t seen anything to doubt them YET but my opinion remains steadfast at this time.

Will I forgive and forget? Never. I am prepared to look forward, we cannot change the past.

Maybe the path trodden by some wasn’t as tight as what could have been and that is not to be critical of them in any way. Whatever was amiss, whatever the smoking gun they just were not found sadly.