January Transfer window 2022

[rigger]

6 minutes ago, islander200 said:

I don't have the answer to that.I just stated a fact this cycle Armstrong and training ground paid for we spent decently for a club with our external income with only 3 million recieved from Raya in that time.

Profit on Armstrong was roughly 10 million...Raya 5....and the training ground only 6 or 7 mill of that 16.6 is counted as profit

What I don't understand is, if Venkys have sold the training ground to themselves, albeit under a different name, to avoid falling foul of PPR. Why didn't they just up the selling price, to pass the PPR limit by more.  

[J*B]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Thats a totally hypothetical scenario. I don't think for one moment that a Premier League team would have Rothwell for 10m, I mean they could probably get him for much less right now yet no one seems keen to.

But ultimately, being perhaps over stringent and not allowing the flexibility to tie him down ultimately throws to one side any potential income from a sale which is obviously the natural end to the "polishing" of an asset. So it becomes a case of if my aunty had bollocks she would be my aunty. I don't think that Kaminski and Wharton are at this moment in this market multi million pound players, especially the former due to his contract. 

Never mind a PL team, I reckon as things stand a recently relegated team would spend £10M on Rothwell if he was on a 5 year deal. 

[1864roverite]

The link to the Burnley lad is tenuous and without a doubt Burnley are deep in relegation trouble and need all hands on deck as their games come thick and fast. I don’t think as it stands Rovers will sell anyone unless the offer is so good it’s hard to refuse - the two assets being BBD and Buckley are clearly coveted by premier teams . On the plus side and fingers crossed for the Dack making a return tomorrow in the u23’s

[Southside Rover]

At the end of the season if we didn't go up and then ended up like Derby, there would be riots

[Crimpshrine]

35 minutes ago, J*B said:

From memory, it took selling both Arma and Brockhall to just scrape through FFP: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-brfcs-podcast/id1282664472?i=1000545177676

I don't think that's quite right. Cheston was quoted in fans forum minutes of Jan 2020 that we were close to the limit at that point. We have not overshot by £30 million since then. We are allowed to lose £13 million per year so we would have to have posted a loss of more than £56 million if we needed the whole proceeds from AA and the training ground to balance the FFP books.

@RoverCanadaposted some figures a week or so ago - he is usually quite accurate.

I'm convinced we have FFP wriggle room. If Venky's aren't prepared to take a gamble this year, while we are in this position, then they never will.  I don't think we will finish second without more strengthening in this window, Only way to fix FFP restrictions in the future is to get promoted.

 

[J*B]

3 minutes ago, rigger said:

What I don't understand is, if Venkys have sold the training ground to themselves, albeit under a different name, to avoid falling foul of PPR. Why didn't they just up the selling price, to pass the PPR limit by more.  

Because theres rules to stop exactly this. You can only buy at an accurate market value. 

Much like there’s rules on sponsorship. They can’t just give us 10M quid to sponsor the shirts because it’s not the market value. 

As a side note FFP is a con to keep the big clubs big and the small clubs small. Unless we can hugely increase the clubs natural revenue we don’t have many options available to us. 

[Mattyblue]

3 minutes ago, Southside Rover said:

At the end of the season if we didn't go up and then ended up like Derby, there would be riots

Because, spending a little this January, in contrast to many years of Derby style wild overspending on eye watering fees and wages, would lead to administration?

Riots? Ha, those days have long gone at Ewood.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Mattyblue

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, J*B said:

But FFP isn’t based on one year, it’s currently based on 4 years. So yes, this year will be better and will give us a little bit more flexibility than usual. But that doesn’t change the fact that the club makes an 8 figure loss every year. They either try and cover that with player sales or the reduce the running costs. I’d rather they went with player sales than selling the stadium, not having a Cat 1 academy, never signing a player for over a million. 

I know that it is cyclical, I mentioned as such. But with the current situation, I would be amazed if the addition of the 2022 year wouldn't IMPROVE the current cycle compared to the year that it knocks off, what with the factors that I mentioned, notably the considerable Armstrong sale. That is without considering the notable wage decrease expected. Therefore, that improvement gives a bit of flexibility for a bit of reinvestment.

Out of interest, do you think that what you have perceived to be the current plan of actions shows genuine signs of bearing fruit? I personally think that the inflexibility to get key assets signed and the lack of consistency regarding its application means that it is not going to be successful any time soon.

 

[roversfan99]

7 minutes ago, Southside Rover said:

If they go for it and it all goes wrong and we miss out the owners will get pelters for being reckless with our club. It's a bit like a government, dammed if they do, dammed if they don't.

By not exactly going for it this year we are having our best season in years so whilst I think they will still strengthen some more, they will also do it carefully to not leave the finances of the club at risk. With the Derby situation unfolding in real time, it makes total sense to continue as is. A lot of business is done late on and 2 or 3 faces to add some depth this week will give us that as long as the quality is right.

Why is the only alternative to frugality a reckless spending spree?! It is a commonly repeated, strawman argument. No one has asked for wild, multi million pound spending!

4 minutes ago, J*B said:

Never mind a PL team, I reckon as things stand a recently relegated team would spend £10M on Rothwell if he was on a 5 year deal. 

Why has there been no interest in him, according to the manager? He will surely be available right now at a cheaper value.

[J*B]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

I know that it is cyclical, I mentioned as such. But with the current situation, I would be amazed if the addition of the 2022 year wouldn't IMPROVE the current cycle compared to the year that it knocks off, what with the factors that I mentioned, notably the considerable Armstrong sale. That is without considering the notable wage decrease expected. Therefore, that improvement gives a bit of flexibility for a bit of reinvestment.

Out of interest, do you think that what you have perceived to be the current plan of actions shows genuine signs of bearing fruit? I personally think that the inflexibility to get key assets signed and the lack of consistency regarding its application means that it is not going to be successful any time soon.

 

Yes I do, I just think we’ve been incredibly unlucky.

Dack was meant to leave for big money, then did his ACL. Then COVID hit and almost all clubs stopped/reduced spending. I think in a pre-covid world we would have sold Nyambe, Rothwell and Lenihan last summer (if they wouldn’t sign new deals) and replaced them with unpolished diamonds. 

[tomphil]

7 minutes ago, Southside Rover said:

If they go for it and it all goes wrong and we miss out the owners will get pelters for being reckless with our club. It's a bit like a government, dammed if they do, dammed if they don't.

By not exactly going for it this year we are having our best season in years so whilst I think they will still strengthen some more, they will also do it carefully to not leave the finances of the club at risk. With the Derby situation unfolding in real time, it makes total sense to continue as is. A lot of business is done late on and 2 or 3 faces to add some depth this week will give us that as long as the quality is right.

They put the clubs finances at risk the minute they and their friends walked through the door. There's a reason they are allegedly damned if they do or don't. This little period can be viewed as a little bit of payback finally for the 9/10k of us who've stuck with it despite often despising them and some of those they've employed. They've helped create the very thing that is now almost totally dependent on their wealth, some might even say that suits them.

So forgive me if my heart doesn't bleed for them when some are asking for just a couple of million extra quid spent wisely, to give us a real chance.

[roversfan99]

Just now, J*B said:

Yes I do, I just think we’ve been incredibly unlucky.

Dack was meant to leave for big money, then did his ACL. Then COVID hit and almost all clubs stopped/reduced spending. I think in a pre-covid world we would have sold Nyambe, Rothwell and Lenihan last summer (if they wouldn’t sign new deals) and replaced them with unpolished diamonds. 

All hypothetical, but had all of those players been sold, then we almost certainly wouldn't have been anything close to where we are in the table at the moment, with a genuine chance of a promotion.

[J*B]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

All hypothetical, but had all of those players been sold, then we almost certainly wouldn't have been anything close to where we are in the table at the moment, with a genuine chance of a promotion.

It depends who we replaced them with. Zeefuik has a good reputation, could he be better than Nyambe? Maybe. Van Hecke looks a player, could he be better than Lenihan? Maybe. That Dembele looks a player at Peterborough, could he replace Rothwell? Or Hedges? Who else have they lined up? Nobody expected Mackaday. 

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, J*B said:

It depends who we replaced them with. Zeefuik has a good reputation, could he be better than Nyambe? Maybe. Van Hecke looks a player, could he be better than Lenihan? Maybe. That Dembele looks a player at Peterborough, could he replace Rothwell? Or Hedges? Who else have they lined up? Nobody expected Mackaday. 

Lenihan AND Van Hecke (mainly the former though) have BOTH been key players though, without Lenihan, we would need someone else external, can you get someone as good as the captain to come in immediately? Nyambe and Rothwell have also been key, both (especially the latter in a new deeper position, you could also add Lenihan to this) have been far better this season than ever before and it seems a culmination of the progression over a number of years, so they simply wouldn't have been viewed externally as well in the summer as they will be now, having all played key roles in a side fighting for promotion displaying form never seen before.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, J*B said:

But FFP isn’t based on one year, it’s currently based on 4 years. So yes, this year will be better and will give us a little bit more flexibility than usual. But that doesn’t change the fact that the club makes an 8 figure loss every year. They either try and cover that with player sales or the reduce the running costs. I’d rather they went with player sales than selling the stadium, not having a Cat 1 academy, never signing a player for over a million. 

Who’s running this massively loss making operation ? The same idiots that have been running it into the ground for the last ten years. They’ll never get us anywhere long term apart from further down the league ladder. All this talk about following the Brentford model is utter nonsense. The people running Brentford have plenty of football nous, the chicken chokers have acquired absolutely non in ten years.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Miller11]

I think not yet selling (I won’t use the term cashing in on) Rothwell, Lenihan and Nyambe, plus the loan signing of Zeefuik is Venky’s idea of going for it. It’s about as much concession as they will make. Markanday is the type of signing we’d have budgeted for anyway.

If we weren’t challenging for promotion I’m pretty certain we’d be seeing out the campaign with JRC at right back, Clarkson in midfield and Ayala playing regularly with Johnson as the centre half back up.

It wouldn’t be too much to ask for a couple more loan/cheap signings though. No need to break the bank, but we do need strengthening to give us the best chance of promotion. Dare I say Andy Carroll would seem a shrewd bit of business right now.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

10 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

I think not yet selling (I won’t use the term cashing in on) Rothwell, Lenihan and Nyambe, plus the loan signing of Zeefuik is Venky’s idea of going for it. It’s about as much concession as they will make. Markanday is the type of signing we’d have budgeted for anyway.

If we weren’t challenging for promotion I’m pretty certain we’d be seeing out the campaign with JRC at right back, Clarkson in midfield and Ayala playing regularly with Johnson as the centre half back up.

It wouldn’t be too much to ask for a couple more loan/cheap signings though. No need to break the bank, but we do need strengthening to give us the best chance of promotion. Dare I say Andy Carroll would seem a shrewd bit of business right now.

He’d be twice the player Gallagher is.

[Leonard Venkhater]

2 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

He’d be twice the player Gallagher is.

2 x 0=?

[roversfan99]

I don't think that Carroll would be a good addition, we often play on the counter attack therefore it would be difficult/impossible to ever start him.

I doubt he would come to sit on our bench just on the off chance that we want a battering ram on for the last 15 minutes. We should get a striker that could slip into the starting 11 just as easily.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 minute ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

2 x 0=?

Indeed. There was a time when players who played as badly as Gallagher did the other night never got to play for the first team again.

[G Somerset Rover]

32 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

I think not yet selling (I won’t use the term cashing in on) Rothwell, Lenihan and Nyambe, plus the loan signing of Zeefuik is Venky’s idea of going for it. It’s about as much concession as they will make. Markanday is the type of signing we’d have budgeted for anyway.

If we weren’t challenging for promotion I’m pretty certain we’d be seeing out the campaign with JRC at right back, Clarkson in midfield and Ayala playing regularly with Johnson as the centre half back up.

It wouldn’t be too much to ask for a couple more loan/cheap signings though. No need to break the bank, but we do need strengthening to give us the best chance of promotion. Dare I say Andy Carroll would seem a shrewd bit of business right now.

Some on here tell us that they never refuse to sign a cheque though?

[Leonard Venkhater]

18 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Indeed. There was a time when players who played as badly as Gallagher did the other night never got to play for the first team again.

Lol...But when was that time?

I am thinking The "Browns"-Richard and Chris-Bill Dunning, Darren Collier, Cory Evans, Liam Feeney,, Jason Lowe, John O'Mara, Martin Dahlin, Ashley Ward, Christian Walton, Formica, Danny Murphy, Dixon Etuhu....

Of course, I could go on...and on ...

Edited January 23, 2022 by Leonard Venkhater

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 minute ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Lol...But when was that time?

I am thinking The "Browns"-Richard and Chris-Bill Dunning, Darren Collier, Cory Evans, Liam Feeney,, Jason Lowe, John O'Mara, Martin Dahlin, Ashley Ward, Christian Walton, Formica, Danny Murphy, Dixon Etuhu....

Of course, I could go on...and on ...

There was a game in the 1960’s when we’d gone out of the Cup in pretty poor circumstances. Jack Marshall dropped a few of the non performing stars and brought in some players who were around the fringes of the first team for the next game. The lads he brought in played worse than the blokes he’d dropped and we lost after playing miserably 1-0. Two in particular were really awful. No names as they’re still alive, I think. Neither of those two ever played for Rovers first team again and they were transferred out of the club at the first opportunity.

[JacknOry]

2 hours ago, J*B said:

They’re not rare beasts, there’s tonnes of them. Rothwell would be worth good money if he would sign. Pickering is a multi million pound player now, same with Kaminski. Wharton is a multi million pound defender already. Mackaday will be the next striker. 

It’s a pointless discussion and you’re killing yourself if you’re thinking there’s a chance they’ll ‘go for it’ this January. This IS them going for it. They’ll stick to the Brentford model exactly. Remember what Brentford did, they where in a strong position for a couple of years before they went up. Anyone thinking “ignore the rules, get promoted then worry about the repercussions” are living in dream land. 

In your opinion of course. How on earth has Pickering quadrupled his value in half a season? Wharton just back froma  serious injury is now worth multiple millions despite not year fulfilling a whole season in the Championship? They both might be, but i think your way overdoing it there. 

[JHRover]

3 hours ago, Southside Rover said:

If they go for it and it all goes wrong and we miss out the owners will get pelters for being reckless with our club. It's a bit like a government, dammed if they do, dammed if they don't.

By not exactly going for it this year we are having our best season in years so whilst I think they will still strengthen some more, they will also do it carefully to not leave the finances of the club at risk. With the Derby situation unfolding in real time, it makes total sense to continue as is. A lot of business is done late on and 2 or 3 faces to add some depth this week will give us that as long as the quality is right.

You make it sound as though we are operating to a prudent and sustainable business model.

That simply isn't the case. The clubs finances are at risk and have been since the day they arrived. We make massive losses every year even with minimal spending and that will have to remain the case if we want to stay in the Championship and not slide into the lower leagues. 

Lets not also get on to the subject of abysmal income levels and assets soon to be out of contract - both of which would be resolved if the club and owners were looking at stable finances and sustainable footings.

In a good year, assuming we don't stumble across a massive sale, we are going to lose £15 million a year in this league. That is sustainable as long as the owners are willing to plug the gap.

You make it sound like what is happening at Derby can't or won't happen here - it will happen if Venkys do the same thing as Mel Morris and decide they've had enough. I think the only thing in our favour on that front is that there are 4 Venkys and they have deeper pockets than Morris.