January Transfer window 2022

[JBiz]

12 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Those are pandemic figures aren't they? In normal times we are not spending double our income on wages. How does that compare to other Championship clubs? Well I think you would struggle to find many spending less than 100% of income on wages. So that doesn't really explain how others can afford to renew contracts whereas we can't.

That also ignores the absolutely massive wage savings made last summer - Bennett, Downing, Bell, Evans, Williams, Mulgrew, THB, Elliott, Trybull, Holtby, Armstrong - how much a week you reckon saved there alone? Pushing £100,000 a week would be my estimate. Anyone else in this league achieved such wage savings recently?

This is all very important.. because the figures often produced for wages are out of date. Add to that the pandemic impact which everyone else has had to deal with along with the Armstrong cash boost and I really am struggling to comprehend it.

We are supposed to believe that they were offering Armstrong a substantial wage rise to try and keep him here. Still don't understand why they couldn't use that money and his wage savings to split between these others to keep them.

No, that figure is from the podcast with Herbie and Glenn entwistle from 2017-21

I imagine during the covid closures, it was probably way higher for those short times, however the main income is ST and TV and that wasn’t impacted in the first season of closures (back of 19/20), but has been impacted since (2500 in 20/21) and this year (2500 reduced tickets) with people out of the habit or switched off a mid table finish.

I don’t think we “can’t afford to renew”.. I think it’s more the plans have been altered partially due to low turnover anyway (ffp) and covid uncertainty.

Glenn Entwistle (I think) made a good point that renewing someone like Rothwell above the top wage earner, means you’re renewing the rest of team within 12 months.

Same with Armstrong. I believe there was an upgrade, probably one to make him our top earner - but I bet that wasn’t even half his signing on fee +
wages over 3 years at any premier league or parachute club.

The video also mentioned Brentford as a perfect example of team with similar turnover in terms of tickets, but far, far, less overheads with academy / facilities.

A team promoted, as best example as we can use that it is possible to compete with parachute payments. They did it with savvy transfer business, and selling players on for huge profits.
 

I guess this is our best chance to move forward, and I am unsettled about the proposition of losing these players, namely our captain, for nothing.

Finally, I agree, many teams in this league will be well above 100% on wages - the difference is what the 100% figure is, for example when Kean was manager first season in the championship, we had 16m upfront to play with before even took turnover into account.

That’s the biggest mistake in the Rao’s ownership, and one we’re still “paying” for.

[JHRover]

25 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Bur they haven't left yet and if they won't accept our improve contracts deals then that's their choice and risk. 

Selling the Training ground got us to apply and with the FFP Rules but as per usual you want to head in the sand again. 

It isn't a bizarre as you would enter contract talks with most players when they 18 months left on their contracts. 

Yes you can renew contracts but ONLY for the same weekly wages. 

 In the second season in the Championship we were spending 189% on wages compare to our turnover 

That MIGHT be the case IF you are under League embargo/restrictions.

We aren't - so this is irrelevant to us

So over the last 6 months we have:

 - Shaved £100,000 a week (approx) off the wage bill through releasing lots of players - probably saving in the region of £5 million over the next 12 months

 - Sold Adam Armstrong - even with Newcastle's cut and taking off the initial fee for him we are looking at £8 million profit

 - Sold our training ground to a different company for £16.6 million

All in all there is almost £30 million in income/savings made

And I'm supposed to believe that we can't pay good players more or that we are under FFP trouble??

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, JHRover said:

And I'm supposed to believe that we can't pay good players 

All 3 players have been offered new improve contracts by the club

[JHRover]

4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

All 3 players have been offered new improve contracts by the club

Maybe true, maybe not. 'Improved' can cover a wide range of things.

A penny a week more is 'improved' but still derisory.

Matters not though - whatever we are doing (if anything) isn't good enough for them to sign up.

The fact that Nyambe and Lenihan in particular have been here since childhood and Rothwell is now a pillar of the team playing at the highest level he has in his career to date and yet all 3 are supposedly rejecting 'improved' terms tells us all we need to know - that there is clearly something very wrong either with the offers being made or with other things at the club.

As I say - none are going to be off to the PL - so for them to be attracted elsewhere in the Championship given their histories and importance at this club and how well we are doing at present suggests something is very off.

[USABlue]

33 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Maybe true, maybe not. 'Improved' can cover a wide range of things.

A penny a week more is 'improved' but still derisory.

Matters not though - whatever we are doing (if anything) isn't good enough for them to sign up.

The fact that Nyambe and Lenihan in particular have been here since childhood and Rothwell is now a pillar of the team playing at the highest level he has in his career to date and yet all 3 are supposedly rejecting 'improved' terms tells us all we need to know - that there is clearly something very wrong either with the offers being made or with other things at the club.

As I say - none are going to be off to the PL - so for them to be attracted elsewhere in the Championship given their histories and importance at this club and how well we are doing at present suggests something is very off.

Surely Rothwell's upturn in form, or playing well more often, is to attract potential suitors.  If so then one must ask why has he not shown it more often.

Gallaghers biisted contract is to make sure he stays after we sell Diaz in January in what will be a hard slap in the face for us fans and a true reflection on Venkies agenda, not one if building a succesful club.

I just don't understand why Venkies can not get it in their thick skulls that a return to the Prem would get them a return on their spends plus increase.the profile of the Chicken business.

 

Edited December 17, 2021 by USABlue

[JHRover]

20 minutes ago, USABlue said:

Surely Rothwell's upturn in form, or playing well more often, is to attract potential suitors.  If so then one must ask why has he not shown it more often.

Gallaghers biisted contract is to make sure he stays after we sell Diaz in January in what will be a hard slap in the face for us fans and a true reflection on Venkies agenda, not one if building a succesful club.

I just don't understand why Venkies can not get it in their thick skulls that a return to the Prem would get them a return on their spends plus increase.the profile of the Chicken business.

 

I tend to agree.

The Gallagher one to me smells of a case of panic realising that they've made a mess of the Brereton and Armstrong ones where we could have had much much more from sales.

I dont think it is a coincidence that Gallagher will be the only 'investment' player left if Brereton leaves - the only one where the owners have authorised substantial cash for.

I hope that even Venkys can understand that we won't be in a better position than this heading into January and won't have a much better chance of the play-offs ever. If they are remotely serious about promotion then they will resist offers in January and risk getting less in the summer and keep the momentum going

[Spartakfenni]

23 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Because he was so great last time!

He certainly was the greatest Twat on Ewood during his time with the Rovers 

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

30 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I tend to agree.

The Gallagher one to me smells of a case of panic realising that they've made a mess of the Brereton and Armstrong ones where we could have had much much more from sales.

I dont think it is a coincidence that Gallagher will be the only 'investment' player left if Brereton leaves - the only one where the owners have authorised substantial cash for.

I hope that even Venkys can understand that we won't be in a better position than this heading into January and won't have a much better chance of the play-offs ever. If they are remotely serious about promotion then they will resist offers in January and risk getting less in the summer and keep the momentum going

Though I would agree that Gallagher would be down my pecking order of contract resigns - we can't surely have a go at them for not tie players down to contracts - and then moan when they do.

 

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, USABlue said:

Surely Rothwell's upturn in form, or playing well more often, is to attract potential suitors.  If so then one must ask why has he not shown it more often.

Gallaghers biisted contract is to make sure he stays after we sell Diaz in January in what will be a hard slap in the face for us fans and a true reflection on Venkies agenda, not one if building a succesful club.

I just don't understand why Venkies can not get it in their thick skulls that a return to the Prem would get them a return on their spends plus increase.the profile of the Chicken business.

 

Are they actually bothered about that though now after being stung by it first time around ?

Or are they more content now with it sat in a corner of their portfolio swallowing / recycling a certain amount of profit every year.  Whilst some of them lower down the food chain amuse themselves playing around with it when they feel like it ?

Real life football manager, the Indian version.

[tomphil]

I'm taking a punt here purely from a gut feeling but wouldn't be surprised if it's Kaminski who might be an out the blue sale in Jan.

[ben_the_beast]

25 minutes ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

Though I would agree that Gallagher would be down my pecking order of contract resigns - we can't surely have a go at them for not tie players down to contracts - and then moan when they do.

 

Agreed. Though there are more pressing matters in terms of contracts, what we are doing with Gallagher is exactly what we should have been doing with the current batch who are seeing their deals expire. A bit of foresight. 

One would imagine however, with Gally being towards the top end of the scale in terms of earners and you are Joe Rothwell, being offered less or only at equal terms then it is very clear where the sticking point is. Of the out of contract players I can very much see a Premier League club taking a gamble on him. He'd be very cheap by Prem standards and his skillset from central positions is rare at any level. He may not pin a first team place down but would be a great squad asset coming off the bench. He's good enough and unless we go above and beyond, I'm fairly certain he is gone.

[Leonard Venkhater]

3 hours ago, 47er said:

and thanks for the blinkers

you took from Ben's eyes

I thought they were there for good

so I never tried!

If you ever come by here, for Joe or for Ben,
Well, their contracts are ending -Thanks, Venky's again

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, JHRover said:

Maybe true, maybe not. 'Improved' can cover a wide range of things.

A penny a week more is 'improved' but still derisory.

It's true but if you want to keep ignoring what management have repeating said to different people including journalists, fans forum and fans then that's down to yourself. 

2 hours ago, JHRover said:

The fact that Nyambe and Lenihan in particular have been here since childhood and Rothwell is now a pillar of the team playing at the highest level he has in his career to date and yet all 3 are supposedly rejecting 'improved' terms tells us all we need to know - that there is clearly something very wrong either with the offers being made or with other things at the club.

As I say - none are going to be off to the PL - so for them to be attracted elsewhere in the Championship given their histories and importance at this club and how well we are doing at present suggests something is very off

Who knows which clubs are interest in them or what their agents are saying to them. If they want to move on then that's their choice.

 

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

The Gallagher one to me smells of a case of panic

What panic? It's perfect normal to be in talks with players when they had 18 months left on their contracts. but then you criticise the club for Sam Gallagher contracts talks almost being done. So the Club can't win here. 

 

[RoversClitheroe]

24 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

What panic? It's perfect normal to be in talks with players when they had 18 months left on their contracts. but then you criticise the club for Sam Gallagher contracts talks almost being done. So the Club can't win here. 

The panic that he isn't great.

[DeeCee]

If I was SG I'd be signing as long a contract as possible, even if it was 25% less 

[Sparks Rover]

6 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

What panic? It's perfect normal to be in talks with players when they had 18 months left on their contracts. but then you criticise the club for Sam Gallagher contracts talks almost being done. So the Club can't win here. 

 

Course it can win.  Resign the good ones and sell.the shit ones.

[1864roverite]

10 hours ago, JHRover said:

Maybe true, maybe not. 'Improved' can cover a wide range of things.

A penny a week more is 'improved' but still derisory.

Matters not though - whatever we are doing (if anything) isn't good enough for them to sign up.

The fact that Nyambe and Lenihan in particular have been here since childhood and Rothwell is now a pillar of the team playing at the highest level he has in his career to date and yet all 3 are supposedly rejecting 'improved' terms tells us all we need to know - that there is clearly something very wrong either with the offers being made or with other things at the club.

As I say - none are going to be off to the PL - so for them to be attracted elsewhere in the Championship given their histories and importance at this club and how well we are doing at present suggests something is very off.

But at this moment not a single championship club have made any offers for them!

[Sparks Rover]

10 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

But at this moment not a single championship club have made any offers for them!

Why would they, freebies in 6 months.

[47er]

9 hours ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

Though I would agree that Gallagher would be down my pecking order of contract resigns - we can't surely have a go at them for not tie players down to contracts - and then moan when they do.

 

Of course we can when they reward  one lesser player and lose the valuable ones. 

[JHRover]

9 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

It's true but if you want to keep ignoring what management have repeating said to different people including journalists, fans forum and fans then that's down to yourself. 

Who knows which clubs are interest in them or what their agents are saying to them. If they want to move on then that's their choice.

 

What panic? It's perfect normal to be in talks with players when they had 18 months left on their contracts. but then you criticise the club for Sam Gallagher contracts talks almost being done. So the Club can't win here. 

 

Blinkered again Chaddy. 

I know what 'management' have repeatedly said. I've already told you why I can't take that seriously given 'managements' recent track record for lies and bullshit. Of course they are going to tell journalists and fans that they and the club have done all they can. Can't you see that?

You might be correct - they may have had improved offers that they don't want to accept. 

I'm really struggling to word it in a way you will respond properly to. This club is (according to some figures) losing £20 million a year and in trouble with FFP rules on a regular basis. I want to know why that is the case if we are unable to put a package together good enough to persuade these players to commit when the alternative to them is another Championship club with lower losses and compliant with FFP. 

How can this be?

And I'm afraid 'that's their choice' is an unacceptable response to such an alarming sequence of events. It might warrant a shoulder shrug if it is one maverick player but when it is 4-5 key first team players, 2 of which are academy graduates then I don't think that is shoulder shrug 'we move on' stuff. I think it is 'what the hell is going on here?' stuff.

I'm glad you recognise it is normal to be in talks with players when they have 18 months left on their contracts. Shame that didn't happen with these others which is why we are in the mess we are today with them.

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, El Tombro said:

You've repeatedly written off John Buckley and Tyrhys Dolan on here, yet they've proved to be outstanding at such a young age. You're a youth coach of some sort, didn't you claim? How on Earth did you not only not see the potential of these lads, but go many steps further and write them off? Haven't you also done the same with Nyambe? Your charge sheet is lengthy to say the least.

In terms of looking forward, Gallagher has had a good season so far. Yes, he's been poor up until this season for the money we shelled out for him, but there is way too much cutting off noses to spite faces on here. I'm fine with his contract being extended because, like several other players in the club, they're starting to come good.

Dolan spends more time on the bench these days (there's more than me doesn't rate him, nice lad though)  Bucko,  improvement,  still only 3 goals and 4 assists in 4.years, and they bounced of his arse.   I've even conceded this point previously. 

I'm a massive nyambe fan always have been, mogadon has failed to develop him and he's been taken the piss out of with Benno etc for yonks.

Gallagher needs a role, headless chicken most of the time, maybe he needs to be the main man.

Always said and still argue that JR is the clubs best player....

There's better coaches than me written off better players than those 2.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Sparks Rover

[rigger]

9 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Dolan spends more time on the bench these days (there's more than me doesn't rate him, nice lad though)  Bucko,  improvement,  still only 3 goals and 4 assists in 4.years, and they bounced of his arse.   I've even conceded this point previously. 

I'm a massive nyambe fan always have been, mogadon has failed to develop him and he's been taken the piss out of with Benno etc for yonks.

Gallagher needs a role, headless chicken most of the time, maybe he needs to be the main man.

Always said and still argue that JR is the clubs best player....

There's better coaches than me written off better players than those 2.

You forgot to add : And been proven wrong.

[neophox]

Can we try and sign Van Hecke and Khadra in january?

[JBiz]

18 minutes ago, rigger said:

You forgot to add : And been proven wrong.

This is my second attempt to respond to @Sparks Roverso will try to be more “partisan”.
 

When you consider other things said and argued over recent years - the quite un fathomable  love in for Ben Whiteman and the “I’ve got 15 year olds better than” *insert academy player name*…

 

Slagging Dolan and Buckley, only praising two that could leave…

I just don’t agree with those opinions.
 

Compared to my own thoughts, utterly night and day.

[Sparks Rover]

58 minutes ago, rigger said:

You forgot to add : And been proven wrong.

They've done nothing of note neither of them.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Sparks Rover