January Transfer window 2022

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, Miller11 said:

That’s funny, because Steve Waggott told me the following:

”It’s not all about the money with Ryan. There are other factors - his academy in Namibia is very important to him.”

This was a few weeks ago, and things may have changed, but it doesn’t support the narrative he is either greedy or unrealistic.

Besides that, people need to stop thinking of “wage structure” in such simple terms - it’s not just a one size fits all wage cap. One of the issues that has long been reported is that academy graduates get a raw deal compared to players we sign from elsewhere. Their wages are bound by a fairly rigid structure; each contract they sign is capped at an increasing amount. 

Nyambe has only played about 40 games less than Lenihan, but is 3 and a half years younger. Same age as Trav, but 60% more career appearances. He’s also younger than Harry Chapman, and has been paid less than Chapman over the course of their contracts.

So Nyambe is likely hitting his fourth pro contract, and is currently in the same pay bracket as Wharton, who is a couple of months older. Our famed structure brackets Nyambe as an academy graduate rather than a full international with 170 first team appearances to his name. It’s not about breaking the structure, but being pragmatic with its application.

Great Post.

[Ossydave]

I think the masterplan was to have Nyambe and JRC battling it out for the right back/wing back spot, which in theory would be absolutely fine.

We've reached the point now though where its obvious JRC would get injured just wiping his backside. Its unfortunate because I really want him to do well for us but time to bring in plan B in January.

[JBiz]

7 hours ago, Miller11 said:

That’s funny, because Steve Waggott told me the following:

”It’s not all about the money with Ryan. There are other factors - his academy in Namibia is very important to him.”

This was a few weeks ago, and things may have changed, but it doesn’t support the narrative he is either greedy or unrealistic.

Besides that, people need to stop thinking of “wage structure” in such simple terms - it’s not just a one size fits all wage cap. One of the issues that has long been reported is that academy graduates get a raw deal compared to players we sign from elsewhere. Their wages are bound by a fairly rigid structure; each contract they sign is capped at an increasing amount. 

Nyambe has only played about 40 games less than Lenihan, but is 3 and a half years younger. Same age as Trav, but 60% more career appearances. He’s also younger than Harry Chapman, and has been paid less than Chapman over the course of their contracts.

So Nyambe is likely hitting his fourth pro contract, and is currently in the same pay bracket as Wharton, who is a couple of months older. Our famed structure brackets Nyambe as an academy graduate rather than a full international with 170 first team appearances to his name. It’s not about breaking the structure, but being pragmatic with its application.

Cheers Miller - really illustrates the difference between coming through and being signed. I’ve heard countless examples of this before in football, mainly through the UNDR the cosh podcasts. 
 

One thing I would add is that the difference between signing for a lower premier league or parachute club;

If our maximum is 15/18k and the maximum yearly signing on fee could be around 10% of that contract £250000. That means the maximum a player can earn in this structure over 3 years (with no division changes) is about £3million.

Whilst no paltry fee - the average wage in the division above is more than double that + signing on fee and other bonuses being double…

It’s not hard to see why there are so many championship players out of contract every season.

Finally I would add, there is no way the club could have the entire first team on that top wage bracket either - that would be more than double our turnover before even taking staff and/or any other squad/academy player into account.

Edited December 20, 2021 by JBiz

[arbitro]

When did this 'wage structure' business start? In the summer we offloaded some of the highest earners in Mulgrew, Bennett, Evans and more. Their wages were estimated at around £100k weekly or £5m yearly. In terms of the numbers we are well down and the new players coming in permanently will be on considerably less. I also remember when Waggott talked about the offer to Armstrong which was described as a bumper deal. This term is used I believe to exonerate Waggott and the owners and make the players look greedy.

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/steve-waggott-reveals-action-he-took-with-adam-armstrong-before-blackburn-rovers-departure/

If we were floundering in mid table I might just understand the situation a bit more but given where we are losing three key players next month would be catastrophic in my view BUT absolutely in line with the owners dysfunctional decade of control.

[JBiz]

7 minutes ago, arbitro said:

When did this 'wage structure' business start? In the summer we offloaded some of the highest earners in Mulgrew, Bennett, Evans and more. Their wages were estimated at around £100k weekly or £5m yearly. In terms of the numbers we are well down and the new players coming in permanently will be on considerably less. I also remember when Waggott talked about the offer to Armstrong which was described as a bumper deal. This term is used I believe to exonerate Waggott and the owners and make the players look greedy.

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/steve-waggott-reveals-action-he-took-with-adam-armstrong-before-blackburn-rovers-departure/

If we were floundering in mid table I might just understand the situation a bit more but given where we are losing three key players next month would be catastrophic in my view BUT absolutely in line with the owners dysfunctional decade of control.

The last paragraph I can understand - but from Glenn and Herbs video, 18 months ago for best part of that time, turnover dropped to record lows due to the pandemic.

I can’t see how many teams could’ve renewed with boosts during that level of uncertainty. Especially a team already literally on the wire with FFP.

Those wages free’d up this summer - I think eventually end up going to better deals for players coming through our academy, but unsurprisingly probably not enough to keep all of these players.

Finally - I would add that it’s not at all nailed on that 3 or 4 short contract players are leaving in January. That’s the worst case scenario.

[arbitro]

21 minutes ago, JBiz said:

The last paragraph I can understand - but from Glenn and Herbs video, 18 months ago for best part of that time, turnover dropped to record lows due to the pandemic.

I can’t see how many teams could’ve renewed with boosts during that level of uncertainty. Especially a team already literally on the wire with FFP.

Those wages free’d up this summer - I think eventually end up going to better deals for players coming through our academy, but unsurprisingly probably not enough to keep all of these players.

Finally - I would add that it’s not at all nailed on that 3 or 4 short contract players are leaving in January. That’s the worst case scenario.

Two of the three players who are in dispute did come through the Academy and have proved themself be assets as has Rothwell. We were led to believe we were on the cusp of breaching P&S rules but since then we have shed big earners, sold Armstrong and the STC. If Sam Gallagher (rumoured to be a top earner) is close to signing an extension it's a fair assumption won't be for peanuts. And if the three do leave how can we replace them and it not cost more? Transfer fees, wages and long contracts for potential new signings would surely commit the club to more expenditure than we have now.

Ordinarily I wouldn't get too concerned but given where we are it's a huge worry. And reading Mowbrays post match comments on Saturday he feels the same way.

[RevidgeBlue]

47 minutes ago, JBiz said:

Finally I would add, there is no way the club could have the entire first team on that top wage bracket either - that would be more than double our turnover before even taking staff and/or any other squad/academy player into account.

Not sure why not, in normal times our turnover is £11m or £12m plus a £20m annual contribution from Venky's is £31m or £32m in total.

You're actually allowed to lose £13m p.a. which would give us around £25m to go at. Why couldn't we have 15 players earning around the £20k p.w. give or take two or three thousand either way?.

What is needed is more quality and slightly less quantity as we've seen this season and not the vastly overblown and padded out squads we've maintained in previous seasons.

[Ulrich]

8 hours ago, Miller11 said:

That’s funny, because Steve Waggott told me the following:

”It’s not all about the money with Ryan. There are other factors - his academy in Namibia is very important to him.”

This was a few weeks ago, and things may have changed, but it doesn’t support the narrative he is either greedy or unrealistic.

Besides that, people need to stop thinking of “wage structure” in such simple terms - it’s not just a one size fits all wage cap. One of the issues that has long been reported is that academy graduates get a raw deal compared to players we sign from elsewhere. Their wages are bound by a fairly rigid structure; each contract they sign is capped at an increasing amount. 

Nyambe has only played about 40 games less than Lenihan, but is 3 and a half years younger. Same age as Trav, but 60% more career appearances. He’s also younger than Harry Chapman, and has been paid less than Chapman over the course of their contracts.

So Nyambe is likely hitting his fourth pro contract, and is currently in the same pay bracket as Wharton, who is a couple of months older. Our famed structure brackets Nyambe as an academy graduate rather than a full international with 170 first team appearances to his name. It’s not about breaking the structure, but being pragmatic with its application.

So our wage structure (which the ceo is responsible for) penalises loyalty? What moron thought that idea up?

[JBiz]

4 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Two of the three players who are in dispute did come through the Academy and have proved themself be assets as has Rothwell. We were led to believe we were on the cusp of breaching P&S rules but since then we have shed big earners, sold Armstrong and the STC. If Sam Gallagher (rumoured to be a top earner) is close to signing an extension it's a fair assumption won't be for peanuts. And if the three do leave how can we replace them and it not cost more? Transfer fees, wages and long contracts for potential new signings would surely commit the club to more expenditure than we have now.

Ordinarily I wouldn't get too concerned but given where we are it's a huge worry. And reading Mowbrays post match comments on Saturday he feels the same way.

I think it’s unsettling. I expect at least one to go.

Similar frustration with Armstrong, if we’d managed to get him a longer term deal we could’ve kept hold or demanded more…

Perhaps that’s the problem (magnified by covid, ffp, having absent owners, potentially not the best backroom staff..)

These players and their agents know the best thing for them is to wait and see. I said it Saturday, perhaps the only way all three are staying is promotion.

Mowbray again said the decision on sales lies with the owners. All my ire will be aimed for them if they allow big players to go this window.

7 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Not sure why not, in normal times our turnover is £11m or £12m plus a £20m annual contribution from Venky's is £31m or £32m in total.

You're actually allowed to lose £13m p.a. which would give us around £25m to go at. Why couldn't we have 15 players earning around the £20k p.w. give or take two or three thousand either way?.

What is needed is more quality and slightly less quantity as we've seen this season and not the vastly overblown and padded out squads we've maintained in previous seasons.

15 players on that would probably incur around 5m in bonuses - based on a lot of assumptions.

I may be wrong - but wasn’t the last time we had any sanctions with FFP, also the last time we got relegated? 
 

Tm has mentioned “mortgaging” the club a few times recently, but I feel the biggest concerns at Ewood are those point deductions / transfer bans

[47er]

19 hours ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

With three defenders and the keeper between Nyambe and BBD. If we were defending in that position Id be very disappointed if my keeper pushed that out.

Maybe Im being a little harsh on Nyambe but I still maintain it is not a good example of a good final ball. A good final ball to me must find a player in Blue n White directly not rely on a degree of luck

But what he did before that final cross was brilliant?

[dingles staying down 4ever]

26 minutes ago, 47er said:

But what he did before that final cross was brilliant?

I said that but the original question was about Final Delivery?

[tomphil]

It's an odd structure when a player comes in for big money and big (for us) wages yet is more of a squad man but gets his contract and wages extended. Then others whose wage starting point is far lower but who have made more contribution and whose value will double - even if it's not ten million- get low balled with no chance of matching someone just because they didn't cost 5 million quid.

We'll end up with a production line where everyone looks to graduate through the academy, then bail to other clubs for a signing on fee and a few more grand when their contracts end. 

Maybe that's the low wage recoup a few quid in compen model low grade Waggot is looking for. I also notice the buck is being passed to the owners on this. The owners who plough in 20 million every season and we are told never refuse a cheque. Are we really now to believe they wouldn't sanction another couple of million to tie assets up if asked ?

[Wheelton Blue]

13 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Maybe that's the low wage recoup a few quid in compen model low grade Waggot is looking for. I also notice the buck is being passed to the owners on this. The owners who plough in 20 million every season and we are told never refuse a cheque. Are we really now to believe they wouldn't sanction another couple of million to tie assets up if asked ?

I don't believe that the owners wouldn't sanction any reasonable request if it might tying the 3 down. 

I think it's more a case of the CEO & manager subtlely diverting the blame.

[Miker]

For me, Lenihan would be the biggest loss for us. He's been absolutely immense the last few weeks and generally we play better when he's in the team. We've lost a lot of experienced players over the summer, and we are really lacking leaders in the squad. We can't afford to lose our captain.

I love Nyambe, but I think he is replaceable. There are good quality players out there for the full-back/wing-back spots, as we've seen with Pickering and Edun. Nyambe is not a major contributor of goals for us.

Brereton surely won't leave in January, but end of the season if we get offered crazy money for him it's going to be hard to say no. 

Rothwell we also absolutely have to keep. He's got mistakes in him, but much like Josh King before him, he is capable of putting defences to the sword and you can't easily find that quality anywhere else. 

[rigger]

12 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Sorry mate, the lad hasn't even got the right build.  He's not fit enough or quick enough to play wing back.  He'll be lucky to get anywhere near our first team, if he replaces nyambe then it's  a massive downgrade 

Hence I said I would prefer to sign a new wing-back. You can only work with the tools you have got.

[Sparks Rover]

1 minute ago, rigger said:

Hence I said I would prefer to sign a new wing-back. You can only work with the tools you have got.

I'd rather change the system and put khedra as wing back or something....I watched that JRC v Liverpool u16s the other week..  .never got a kick....

[rigger]

2 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

I'd rather change the system and put khedra as wing back or something....I watched that JRC v Liverpool u16s the other week..  .never got a kick....

Yet put in two excellent crosses. I assume you meant the U23s.

[Sparks Rover]

46 minutes ago, rigger said:

Yet put in two excellent crosses. I assume you meant the U23s.

Ate, moat of them were 16, 17 and 18

[bluebruce]

12 hours ago, Spartakfenni said:

Paul were you one of those that said Diaz was not worth £7m? Butterworth has had a couple of years out with serious injuries. Give him the chance he can cut it. Don’t write him off after a handful of sub appearances.

People are very quick to rush to accuse others of writing people off these days.

Mani suggested what his best position is. He didn't 'write him off'.

[PeteJD13]

14 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I would suggest Ayala, Dack and Gallagher are on roughly 16 to 18k p.w. and our top earners so I suggest a week between 10 to 12k a p.w. is more than reasonable and double his current wages imo

two of those are on more than the salaries stated from what i was told

[47er]

2 hours ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

I said that but the original question was about Final Delivery?

No, the original point I made is that he made the goal for Buckley---and he did!

I have a higher opinion of Nyambe than you do---we can agree on that!

[RoversClitheroe]

Did someone really just use Gallagher's wage as a justification for why Nyambe doesn't deserve to be near his salary?! 

Gallagher should be on about £5-10k whilst Nyambe should be on close to £15-18k a week.

Absolute joke that we aren't offering him a high end championship salary, same goes for Rothwell.

[Exiled in Toronto]

I don’t know why people are surprised our Academy graduates get paid less than players bought from clubs higher up the pyramid than us. It’s just a fact of life that people get paid a premium for taking the risk of leaving a workplace they are very comfortable in plus most likely moving house etc.

It also needs to be factored in that meeting the demands of the three may well not sit too well with the other first teamers who signed their presumably lower contracts in the last year or two.

The only one I’d go over and above for is Lenihan, who I think has been a revelation on the right side of a three. It totally suits his game and turns some of his key weaknesses (getting drawn into midfield, getting too close to the right touch line) into strengths.

It’d be crazy to sell any of them in January though, so I think they are here for the promotion push no matter what.

Edited December 20, 2021 by Exiled in Toronto

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

29 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

I don’t know why people are surprised our Academy graduates get paid less than players bought from clubs higher up the pyramid than us. It’s just a fact of life that people get paid a premium for taking the risk of leaving a workplace they are very comfortable in plus most likely moving house etc.

It also needs to be factored in that meeting the demands of the three may well not sit too well with the other first teamers who signed their presumably lower contracts in the last year or two.

The only one I’d go over and above for is Lenihan, who I think has been a revelation on the right side of a three. It totally suits his game and turns some of his key weaknesses (getting drawn into midfield, getting too close to the right touch line) into strengths.

It’d be crazy to sell any of them in January though, so I think they are here for the promotion push no matter what.

Looks like Sheff Utds scouting department knew what they were looking for when they put in an offer for him a couple of years back 🙂

Edited December 20, 2021 by DavidMailsTightPerm

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, PeteJD13 said:

two of those are on more than the salaries stated from what i was told

Gallagher took a significant pay cut to join us and his wages at Southampton were 25k a week. I heard it was roughly 18k.a week. 

Can't see Dack being on more than 20k a week. 

Ayala. 

2 hours ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Did someone really just use Gallagher's wage as a justification for why Nyambe doesn't deserve to be near his salary?! 

Gallagher should be on about £5-10k whilst Nyambe should be on close to £15-18k a week.

Absolute joke that we aren't offering him a high end championship salary, same goes for Rothwell.

Well that's your opinion but given his current wage if we offer what I suggested then I double and more his current wage. 

I would offer Rothwell 15k a week