January Transfer window 2022

[neophox]

11 minutes ago, rovers11 said:

Would be a very shrewd signing if true. Has a huge amount of talent but he's lost his way. It's not so long ago he went for big money and he's still only young. Plus out of contract in the summer too so Good potential for a permanent deal if he does well. 

We're not in the market for players who are at the top of their game, that's unrealistic. We need to find talent and "polish them up" as TM would say.

Hope hes not another Sam Gallagher...

[neophox]

If Venlys would trust Mowbray...why on earth hasn't he got a new contract yet?

[RoversClitheroe]

Just now, neophox said:

If Venlys would trust Mowbray...why on earth hasn't he got a new contract yet?

Don't say that lol, Mowbray needs to go at the end of the season, with a manager with ambition taking his place, let's not forget this is the person who took us on various death spirals

[Guest]

Not against Oliver Burke at all. Would be good cover in a position we lack options currently with poveda’s unfortunate injury. Would still hope for a central striker myself but if it was just Burke then it’s not the end of the world with Dack’s return. Another mobile CM for cover and a RWB to challenge Nyambe far more pressing concerns.

[Beanie01289]

16 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

Not against Oliver Burke at all. Would be good cover in a position we lack options currently with poveda’s unfortunate injury. Would still hope for a central striker myself but if it was just Burke then it’s not the end of the world with Dack’s return. Another mobile CM for cover and a RWB to challenge Nyambe far more pressing concerns.

I think at the least we will cancel the rest of povedas loan and sign the three remaining loan slots

[roversfan99]

22 minutes ago, rovers11 said:

I actually think Rankin-Costello is a better fit for the right wing back role than Nyambe. It's a more attacking role he's being asked to do now whereas his strength is defending. If we were to lose any of the out of contract players then he'd be the only one I think we could get away with without impacting the team hugely. We simply cannot lose Lenihan or Rothwell this window though. 

I don't get the fuss over Rankin Costello and I don't think that he would be an upgrade or even a better fit at right wing back than Nyambe.

When he did play (obviously for the sake of this we are ignoring the fact that he is beyond fragile) he was steady enough and versatile but going forward he was hardly whipping in lots of crosses or being brilliant bombing on, and there is more than one way to skin a cat, Nyambe showed through brute force (not for the first time) against Birmingham what can happen when he powers forward, the cross may not have been inch perfect but it led to a goal. 

As a wing back, the importance of defending shouldn't be discarded either, and there is only one winner there, Rankin Costello is really poor at one on one defending, ultimately it is blatantly not what he is best at.

1 minute ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Don't say that lol, Mowbray needs to go at the end of the season, with a manager with ambition taking his place, let's not forget this is the person who took us on various death spirals

I don't see how such a definite stance should be taken, what if we get promoted? Should a run of form 18 months prior be focused on above an unexpected current season promotion? If he got promoted, would that classify as "having ambition?"

There is a fixation with "death spirals" without equally taking into account good runs of form, ultimately it is unfair to cherry pick runs of games to suit an agenda, the end finish in the table is what matters and is why Mowbray needed sacking last year. But he didn't so lets see what unfolds first.

[Admiral Nelsen]

3 minutes ago, rovers11 said:

Would be a very shrewd signing if true. Has a huge amount of talent but he's lost his way. It's not so long ago he went for big money and he's still only young. Plus out of contract in the summer too so Good potential for a permanent deal if he does well. 

We're not in the market for players who are at the top of their game, that's unrealistic. We need to find talent and "polish them up" as TM would say.

 

I'd say could be, rather than would be. I worry hugely about a 24 year old who still gets criticised for lacking game awareness after playing well over a hundred games. His goal record too is appalling for a forward, although apparently he's played all over in recent years, so I'm not sure how much that has impacted things.

 

It could be that a change of environment is what's needed, and so long as the money involved is small I wouldn't be against signing him. At the same time you'd have to say that it's his early promise which is the anomaly in his career, and the norm seems to be struggling to live up to that brief promise. 

[Wheelton Blue]

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

Nyambie spent two season being told to keep possession like the rest of them so no surprise he struggles a bit with releasing the ball quicker.

If anything he tries too hard he needs to relax a bit but nobody can question his workrate. Plus the way we play it often means when he breaks down the right there is no center forward to aim for in the box. Also it's not that long ago he set up a goal but it's always been my concern that we ask a right back to be a main creative force.

Get a winger in there and you'll get crosses.

Totally agree.

In normal play, Buckley is the forward most central player. He's hardly a target man.

[Alpineman]

Looking at clips of Oliver Burke, he seems like a player who likes to drive forward at speed from a central position, likes beating players with swerving moves and laying it off.

Rothwell replacement?

[arbitro]

I don't get the Rankin-Costello is a better fit than Nyambe for our system and the way we play. Personally I need some convincing that JRC is good enough in any position. He has only played 26 games at this level and without stating the obvious is hugely injury prone.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

1 hour ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

I'd say could be, rather than would be. I worry hugely about a 24 year old who still gets criticised for lacking game awareness after playing well over a hundred games. His goal record too is appalling for a forward, although apparently he's played all over in recent years, so I'm not sure how much that has impacted things.

 

It could be that a change of environment is what's needed, and so long as the money involved is small I wouldn't be against signing him. At the same time you'd have to say that it's his early promise which is the anomaly in his career, and the norm seems to be struggling to live up to that brief promise. 

TBH - reading some comments about him - sounded similar to what has previously been said about Armstrong.

[bluebruce]

2 hours ago, rovers11 said:

Would be a very shrewd signing if true. Has a huge amount of talent but he's lost his way. It's not so long ago he went for big money and he's still only young. Plus out of contract in the summer too so Good potential for a permanent deal if he does well. 

We're not in the market for players who are at the top of their game, that's unrealistic. We need to find talent and "polish them up" as TM would say.

If he is out of contract in the summer, it probably is a permanent deal rather than potential for it.

Worth pointing out that yes his goal record is poor, but he has played mostly in the three top leagues in Europe. Yes he scored 1 in 25 in a poor, relegated Sheff U side in the Prem last season, but that monster Mitrovic only scored 3 in 27 in the Prem last season and he's tearing this level apart. I know Burke isn't tearing this level apart but still, could be he needs something to click.

That said, I'm far from convinced. When wages are factored in I bet it's far from cheap, and what has been said about him doesn't inspire. Again I'd rather those funds went on keeping our rebels.

[Darwen Rover 007]

2 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

Whilst clearly agreeing with your view, the club offered two players new deals over 18 months ago and yet they remain unsigned.

Just wonder if we did enough at the time though? 

[Gav]

21 minutes ago, Darwen Rover 007 said:

Just wonder if we did enough at the time though? 

Clearly not Darwen Rover or they'd have signed.

With the club riding this crest of a wave, how good would it be for the club to immediately offer these players increases on the deals and get them signed for the next league game? 

That is what Jack and John Williams would have done, within reason of course, but then again we'd never have gotten to this stage in the first place.

 

[dingles staying down 4ever]

34 minutes ago, Gav said:

Clearly not Darwen Rover or they'd have signed.

With the club riding this crest of a wave, how good would it be for the club to immediately offer these players increases on the deals and get them signed for the next league game? 

That is what Jack and John Williams would have done, within reason of course, but then again we'd never have gotten to this stage in the first place.

 

Like they did with Scott Sellars and David May. I know both were here before Williams started but can we stop with the Walker and Williams thing? They didn't always wave the magic wand and get it right. They did get things wrong as well.

From what Ive heard, its not necesarily the players but the agents being the issue. Lets not stop the beating of Waggot over certain things and in time this maybe true here. It would be great if these players were signed but lets not forget recent history.

Remember when we came up from Div.1 we gave out bigger contracts to the heroes of that campaign only for 12 months later everyone complained their contracts were too big and long.

It maybe that they are after longer length contracts and if we were to give them what they want and go up then what happens? 12 months down the line and these players are stinking out the premiership out there would be those on here asking why did we give long contracts to these donkeys as they were never good enough for the premiership even though they'll be the ones demanding they get signed up now.

Edited January 4, 2022 by dingles staying down 4ever

[JacknOry]

If they're good enough to get us out of the Championship, they're good enough to have a crack higher up. Same as we did when coming from L1. Obviously, when we do go up, you'd hope we continue to strengthen on top of having these players here. I think the difference before was we gave out longer contracts to players at the ends of their careers while these are 24. 26, 27? 

 

[bluebruce]

5 minutes ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

It maybe that they are after longer length contracts and if we were to give them what they want and go up then what happens? 12 months down the line and these players are stinking out the premiership out there would be those on here asking why did we give long contracts to these donkeys as they were never good enough for the premiership even though they'll be the ones demanding they get signed up now.

Rich Sharpe has said in his Q&A today that we are offering them 3.5 year deals, with a 1 year option.

Also, even if they stink out the Prem as you suggest, with the £130+ million that promotion brings, nobody is really going to give a shit about their long 15k a week or so deals. Even if they were on 20k each, that's 3 million a year, and puny compared to the promotion funds. Besides which, it would likely be very easy to get a Championship team to buy or loan them after they formed a key part of a promotion-winning team.

[RV Blue]

Rothwell is our most important out of contract player, he’s a Premier League player in waiting and would be essentially irreplaceable at this level.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

23 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Rich Sharpe has said in his Q&A today that we are offering them 3.5 year deals, with a 1 year option.

Also, even if they stink out the Prem as you suggest, with the £130+ million that promotion brings, nobody is really going to give a shit about their long 15k a week or so deals. Even if they were on 20k each, that's 3 million a year, and puny compared to the promotion funds. Besides which, it would likely be very easy to get a Championship team to buy or loan them after they formed a key part of a promotion-winning team.

I agree in principle in what you say but what happens if they stay and we get relegated after one season? If we do sign them on 15-20k/week there would be many on here still complaining that they would still be a drain on resources. People said that about Smallwood when he got his contract but soon turned when things did not go well.

Also 130 million you estimate for a season in the premiership still does not recover existing debt so I think every pound in wages is not puny.   

All three players up until this season have divided opinion of if they were good enough for us so lets not get carried away with it would be easy to shift them.

Edited January 4, 2022 by dingles staying down 4ever

[dingles staying down 4ever]

4 minutes ago, RV Blue said:

Rothwell is our most important out of contract player, he’s a Premier League player in waiting and would be essentially irreplaceable at this level.

Really? I dont see the stories of the PL clubs lining up to sign him. Not even Alan Nixon. He is important to us at present granted but lets not get carried away. He has potential to be premiership material but most clubs dont need potential at this stage of the season.  

[Miller11]

3 hours ago, arbitro said:

I don't get the Rankin-Costello is a better fit than Nyambe for our system and the way we play. Personally I need some convincing that JRC is good enough in any position. He has only played 26 games at this level and without stating the obvious is hugely injury prone.

I’m a fan of JRC, but think he’d be far better employed further forward.

Interesting how Nyambe is often considered a sick note, and while hamstring injuries seem to be an issue at times, he’s clearly more robust than JRC. Pickering has also managed less games this season than Ryan, and could be out for another spell due to hamstring issues. We do ask a lot of our fullbacks/wing backs.

[bluebruce]

2 minutes ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

I agree in principle in what you say but what happens if they stay and we get relegated after one season? If we do sign them on 15-20k/week there would be many on here still complaining that they would still be a drain on resources. People said that about Smallwood when he got his contract but soon turned when things did not go well.

All three players up until this season have divided opinion of if they were good enough for us so lets not get carried away with it would be easy to shift them.

If we sign them on 15k a week (I said 20k in the next bit to account for a contracted promotion wage rise really, you'd expect a relegation wage drop after that) they'd still be top end Championship players, good enough to get us promoted not long ago and still a decent age, on a reasonable salary for this league, at a club still earning tens of millions in parachute payments. People could complain if they wanted but it would be chump change relative to the resources we would have.

Nobody would have looked at BBD a season ago, he more than just divided opinion. One hot season and he is worth upwards of 20 million. Yes, I think it would be easy to shift them on that kind of contract if need be. But I'd be happy to keep them on in a relegated side for another tilt at promotion.

Nothing is perfect, players gain and lose form, get injured etc but you can't fail to sign them on the basis that they might get worse, and lose a player worth a few million for nothing. You'd never sign anyone on that basis.

Anyway as I said the club has already supposedly offered them fairly lengthy deals. I personally think those deal lengths are commensurate with their value as assets, and won't overburden us if we get promoted and they're not quite up to it, nor if we get relegated back down. The bigger question is if we stay down, and I'd say they're all good enough Championship players that the prospect doesn't worry me. They're mainstays of our side, a side in 2nd.

[JHRover]

This club's biggest problem has been allowing our best players to run their contracts down and not getting top dollar for our assets.

Whether that be Tom Cairney, David Raya, Adam Armstrong or the latest raft of soon to be out of contract players, all of them went or will go for less than they should.

I'd like to avoid a similar scenario unfolding again yet that is precisely what is going to happen come the summer. Somewhere along the line people seem to be ignoring the countless millions in transfer value these players possess and focus on a few grand a week difference on the 'wage structure'. Strange that paying them more (deservedly so given their importance and performances) is seemingly a no-no and a risk not worth taking yet at the same time forgoing millions in asset value is absolutely fine, not a problem.

I could perhaps buy into this 'wage structure' and the seeming obsession with sticking to it if this was a club run on a sound financial footing and competing at this level whilst breaking even and debt free - like Brentford managed to do - but we are a long way from that and always will be under these owners. They won't do anything serious to deal with that and appear to even enjoy it or certainly be comfortable with it. The only chance we have of being sustainable at this level whilst competing is by ensuring we keep our academy products when they reach the first team or at least ensure they have real value to the club in the event a sale comes along.

 

[tomphil]

Maybe we've been paying them too much and now they are asking for more it makes it unrealistic. You just never know with Rovers and their odd wage bill.

I'd say a comfortable wage for established non marquee players is probably about ten grand a week. 

[chaddyrovers]