v Hull City (a) - 19/1/22

[Jimmy612]

3 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

What happened to being sent off because you're the last man?

I always refer to the 'Samba in the League cup semi final vs Villa' example for this one.  Genuine attempt to get the ball punished twice i.e. Penalty and red card - 2 nil up, 25mins in and the game got destroyed. 

I was livid that night and argued with my non-Rovers uni mates that it was a completely absurd rule back then.

Anyway, double jeopardy rule has come in since then so unless I'm mistaken, genuine attempts to tackle the player in the box is no longer a red card offence. Might be wrong.....

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

54 minutes ago, Torgeir said:

We can catch anyone on the break but we have to be a lot more presise than in our last two matches. We still defend well, but Edun and JRC aren't of the same quality as Rhino and Pickering. Tony should consider playing Lenihan at right back and put Ayala back in the side. We need his experience now.

I said that before the game. Ayala would have kept their centre forward quiet and Lenihan couldn’t have been any worse the JRC.

[bluebruce]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy612 said:

I always refer to the 'Samba in the League cup semi final vs Villa' example for this one.  Genuine attempt to get the ball punished twice i.e. Penalty and red card - 2 nil up, 25mins in and the game got destroyed. 

I was livid that night and argued with my non-Rovers uni mates that it was a completely absurd rule back then.

Anyway, double jeopardy rule has come in since then so unless I'm mistaken, genuine attempts to tackle the player in the box is no longer a red card offence. Might be wrong.....

That was a genuine attempt to shove the player over so he couldn't score, it wasn't a genuine attempt to tackle him.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

3 minutes ago, Jimmy612 said:

I always refer to the 'Samba in the League cup semi final vs Villa' example for this one.  Genuine attempt to get the ball punished twice i.e. Penalty and red card - 2 nil up, 25mins in and the game got destroyed. 

I was livid that night and argued with my non-Rovers uni mates that it was a completely absurd rule back then.

Anyway, double jeopardy rule has come in since then so unless I'm mistaken, genuine attempts to tackle the player in the box is no longer a red card offence. Might be wrong.....

Yes but that wasn’t in any way, shape, or form a “ tackle “.

[garnersfags]

4 minutes ago, DE. said:

I suppose the only potential positive (and I'm grasping here) is that if the ref had given us a pen, sent the Hull player off and we'd gone on to scrape another win Cardiff-style Mowbray may have incorrectly assumed he'd made the right decision. As it stands, even with the refereeing shananigans taken into account, there's no question the manager picked the wrong line up. We can only hope Mowbray recognises that and sorts it out for the next match.

Couldn't agree more. 

[Sparks Rover]

6 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

 

thought we looked so weak tonight, needed somebody in the middle to grab the game by the scruff of the neck, probably somebody with experience

This is the crux.  Looking at the starting 11 we were weakened in areas...you just can't be 3 players down in a professional match and still expect to win.  

Agree, we need a couple of old heads now, a Dan gosling, or someone of that ilk......these little tricky chaps are all very  well but they won't get you a scrappy win or hold onto a 0-0 ....worried me.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Sparks Rover

[Jimmy612]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Yes but that wasn’t in any way, shape, or form a “ tackle “.

 

1 minute ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Yes but that wasn’t in any way, shape, or form a “ tackle “.

Possibly you're right, but I don't think the ref would have sent him off for it. 

[garnersfags]

1 minute ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I said that before the game. Ayala would have kept their centre forward quiet and Lenihan couldn’t have been any worse the JRC.

I agree with this, but we'd have possibly got away with our 2 limp wing-backs if Buckley hadn't been imprisoned in front of our defence. 

He HAS to play further forward, in a free role. He is no longer our plucky utility player. He's our creative force.

It's criminal, short-sighted, and clueless. 

That's why I'm depressed tonight. 

[Silas]

2 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

That was a genuine attempt to shove the player over so he couldn't score, it wasn't a genuine attempt to tackle him.

I agree but probably what would save him is that his foot was near the ball.

Don't get me wrong he knew 99.9% he wasn't getting there, and it was a desperate foul to stop a goal, but the vicinity of his foot in the right general area would qualify for the double jeapordy rule. 

[RevidgeBlue]

17 minutes ago, DE. said:

People complain about VAR, but if it existed in the Championship I imagine we'd have had more positive results from it than bad this season.

I may be wrong but my overall impression of VAR from the Premier League I'd that no-one really benefits from it overall because for the odd decision it gets right you've  probably already had several more goals chalked off for the most trivial of infringements or the most marginal of offsides which otherwise would have gone unpunished.

[Jimmy612]

Just now, garnersfags said:

I agree with this, but we'd have possibly got away with our 2 limp wing-backs if Buckley hadn't been imprisoned in front of our defence. 

He HAS to play further forward, in a free role. He is no longer our plucky utility player. He's our creative force.

It's criminal, short-sighted, and clueless. 

That's why I'm depressed tonight. 

The best moment we created in the second half came from him being further up the pitch and zipping a ball in to BBD so that Edun could get around on the outside. Him and Rothwell are our two best players at the moment and we destroyed them tonight for the opportunity to play Gallagher. 

[DE.]

1 minute ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I may be wrong but my overall impression of VAR from the Premier League I'd that no-one really benefits from it overall because for the odd decision it gets right you've  probably already had several more goals chalked off for the most trivial of infringements or the most marginal of offsides which otherwise would have gone unpunished.

I don't really watch much of the PL so I can't really comment on how it's utilised there. When I've seen it used in the Champions League and WC it's seemed fairly reasonable.

Considering the EFL would be in charge of it... yeah, it'd probably be a total disaster. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I’ll have a lot more to say tomorrow but can I just say for now - Iv’e seen plenty of poor referees in a lifetime of watching football and rugby league but that is the first time I.’ve seen a referee who gave us absolutely nothing. How many players did we get booked ? And for what ? We got bullied tonight and the ref let them get away with it. Every tackle they left something in or there was a little pullback.

They’d seen us at Cardiff and thought “ These are a soft touch, they don’t like the physical side of the game. Too many nice lads and not enough bastards “. Only Travis will fight fire with fire.

Edited January 19, 2022 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Silas]

26 minutes ago, DE. said:

People complain about VAR, but if it existed in the Championship I imagine we'd have had more positive results from it than bad this season.

What about the couple nailed on last min pens we've got away with? Or was that last season?

It's all blending into 1 for me during this bloody pandemic. 

[ben_the_beast]

It was touch and go whether it was a red in addition to a penalty. As it could have been interpreted as a yellow under the double jeopardy rule, but also just as easily that he made no attempt for the ball and therefore a red. 

It's been said on here already. The change in formation cost us. Gallagher was totally uninvolved and our two creative outlets in Buckley and Rothwell were pinned deep. So like playing with 10 men and zero creativity. JRC was rusty and shouldn't have been playing. Allowing the cross to come in so easily for their first was abysmal. Mowbray cost us the game with his change in system. Davenport in my mind isn't as good as Travis. But he was a like for like option who wouldn't hamper our other key players.

In saying all this the referee decided the game. The big decisions were as bad as I've seen and as poor as we were we'd have come away with 1 or 3 points were there somebody of some intellectual ability or competence in the middle. I hope, given it was on sky that he'll be demoted for the performance. As it simply wasn't good enough. The performance has to hit him in his pocket. Simple as.

I don't think it's the start of a death spiral if Mowbray goes back to the tried and tested. But his decision making today was cause for concern. 

At the end of the day if either Mowbray or the Ref were on their game today, we'd have won. 

[Jimmy612]

Just now, Silas said:

What about the couple nailed on last min pens we've got away with? Or was that last season?

It's all blending into 1 for me during this bloody pandemic. 

The Nyambe handball vs Preston sticks out in my mind 

[garnersfags]

52 minutes ago, Jimmy612 said:

Yeh, so I think the confusing bit was Mowbray's decision to change a highly successful shape to the complete detriment of our own team, not that nobody could recognise what was going on. 

Game finished almost two hours ago and I'm still absoutely amazed at his decision to play Buckley and Rothwell as holding midfielders. I'd LOVE him to explain that one.

In fact, if Sharpe or any other journo is reading this it should be their first question to TM whenever they get chance. Bollocks to asking about referees and penalties... That just invites platitudes and clichés and detracts from the fact TM got it badlu wrong to start with. 

 

This sums it up perfectly.

We have been criticised for being 'slow out of the blocks' but the whole team must have been wondering what had happened to their winning formation and formula. No wonder they looked off the pace.

The change of formation and approach tonight is season-defining, and bodes bery badly for our prospects.

Before I have a total hyperbole-overload, I'll bid you all goodnight, and thanks for allowing us all to let off the steam that would've otherwise resulted in more destructive actions. This is a real benefit of this brilliant forum. 

Adieu. 

Edited January 20, 2022 by garnersfags

[DE.]

3 minutes ago, Silas said:

What about the couple nailed on last min pens we've got away with? Or was that last season?

It's all blending into 1 for me during this bloody pandemic. 

We'd have had some go against us too, for sure. I just think the balance would be in our favour. Could just be my own bias clouding my view though! 

[den]

We had two decisions go against us tonight, that’s for sure and refs decisions can change games. Team performances change games as well - even more so. There was nothing to stop rovers taking those decisions in their stride and still going on to win the game. It happens in most games every week. If we’d have turned up first half for example maybe these events wouldn’t even have happened. 

Just looking at the decisions for the result, without taking into account the dead poor performance is to my mind, kidding ourselves.

Edited January 19, 2022 by den

[G Somerset Rover]

I believe I heard the commentators right that we’ve fallen behind 8 times this season and only won one. The first goal under Mowbray has always seemed absolutely crucial and this great run has been no different.

We need a decent plan B for when we’re up against it.

Edited January 20, 2022 by Gavlar Somerset Rover!

[AllRoverAsia]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Wouldn't have said that was a red card personally, probably a pen but if it was the other way round I'd no doubt  be arguing that BB should have been stronger and it was shoulder to shoulder.

I'd be really annoyed if a red card were shown as well, he hadn't even set himself to take a shot.

What? Give over.

Edited January 20, 2022 by AllRoverAsia

[Ghost7]

It was crying out for a change or two well before the second goal. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but that's what the manager's there for. Hopefully he's learned that whatever he tried today selection wise, doesn't work.

[Butty]

Crazy that Gallagher has got a new deal. Big unit of a guy who can’t win a header or hold the ball up and his first touch is gash. No coincidence he’s not featured much in the run that’s got us to where we are in the league. Look at Eaves tonight for Hull, bullied our backline. We need 3 in the middle as tonight showed, Hull able to run through us with absolute ease, let’s not pretend Hull are a decent side either because they’re not. 
 

The refereeing decisions both appaling, stone wall pen and a red card. Kaminski fouled for there second. It’s hard to feel to strongly about that though because we didn’t deserve anything from the game regardless. Roll on Monday against an in form Boro without Diaz. 😭 I pray Trav is back. 

[JHRover]

Just in after a typical midweek away trip with numerous motorway junctions closed making life much harder than it needs to be. Very angry and frustrated tonight but only part of that is down to our performance. Of greater annoyance right now are the officiating and the feeling of being cheated, especially when we remember the events of Boxing Day.

Of course Hull laughing all the way to the bank - having been shot at on confidence and missing numerous important players 3 weeks ago to tonight bouncing with their takeover and a much healthier home crowd along with most of their players back whereas we have done the opposite - now missing 2-3 important players and performances dropping off.

I think that is now Barnsley, Huddersfield, Wigan, Cardiff and Hull where we have been quite poor. We got away with it v Barnsley and Cardiff and took a reasonable point from Huddersfield but have paid the price v Wigan and Hull with what ended up quite comical defeats.

Another 4 yellow cards added to the tally - whether these are justified or not they are going to be biting us on the arse in the near future because we are picking lots up and it seems to me (and I'm going to look it up when I get chance) that we out-do the opposition on bookings in nearly every game. 

By the end I think we ended up all over the place seemingly with little structure or formation - Lenihan out wide right, Rothwell almost in centre defence? It was a flashback to the bad old days of chuck on 3 subs end up confused and unable to turn a game around.

 

[AllRoverAsia]

Was that Benson giving instructions to Markanday as he got ready to come on?

** Will someone please, please tell me it wasn't

Edited January 20, 2022 by AllRoverAsia