v Swansea City (a) - 5/2/22

[booth]

2 minutes ago, rigger said:

Our excellent season has been mainly down to the way we have defended, but the Swansea goal yesterday was criminal. With 3 centerhalves playing, how is the only attacker in the box allowed a free header. Anyway, we are still second, so bring on Forest.

Whilst I’d expect zeefuick to do better, he played two fullbacks out of position.

[booth]

17 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

He didn't have choice yesterday, the team with square pegs in round holes was due to Brereton and Khadra being unfit to start and Gallagher and Dolan not quite making it after injury themselves, we only had Hedges out of our 5 options there. That had the knock on effect of having to push Giles forward where he is less effective, which then left Zeefuik on the wrong side with Pickering and Edun also out. So you have 2 players in less than ideal positions because of 6 fitness concerns, at least 5 of which should clear in the next week or 2. It wasn't down to the manager having loads of options and tinkering, it was the complete opposite.

He is right in that the way that we play using a false 9 and 2 wide forwards has brought us the success to get us into 2nd. I do think that we could have done with another forward who has the mobility to play in those 2 wide forward positions, similar to Brereton and Gallagher who give us a bit more physicality to the other options. Saying that, it cant be easy to get similar to the options we have when he seemingly was in the loan market only based on his quotes last week.

This talk of having someone pressuring him "when we falter" seems counter-productive, we are still 2nd, our form has stuttered lately coinciding with some fitness issues, but why would someone being on his back after a run of 2 wins, 2 draws and 2 losses help, surely it would cause further panic.

Of course he did.

He had a choice to bring in cover for Brereton fully knowing he'd be without him. He had a choice not to send Butterworth, our only other striker, out on loan. Not ideal and not my first choice but preferable to putting TWO players out of position in order to fix a problem of our own making.

Mowbray finally solved the issue of Pickering being out, then negated that by putting our only fit LB up front and a RB in his position. Two positions alien to two players just getting to grips with the team. I don't understand why that was necessary.

Khadra looked fine to me so starting him as the left forward would have been far more preferable than Giles, who looks to be an excellent wing back. Then in the second half swap him for Brereton - or vice versa.

Someone should be on TM's back asking why after his most successful season yet, he's started reverting to type. And asking why he didn't bring in cover for Brereton in January when he admitted it was his choice not to do so. It didn't need to be a like for like, no one's expecting 20 goals or a player to the exact standard. Just cover so we aren't having to then have 2 players out of position compromising one side of the pitch as we saw yesterday.

There was absolutely no reason why Giles needed to begin as one of our forwards yesterday and evidence from the second half to suggest he's very comfortable and shouldn't be switched around from LWB.

Edited February 6, 2022 by booth

[joey_big_nose]

20 minutes ago, rigger said:

Our excellent season has been mainly down to the way we have defended, but the Swansea goal yesterday was criminal. With 3 centerhalves playing, how is the only attacker in the box allowed a free header. Anyway, we are still second, so bring on Forest.

Yes it was a poor goal but pretty much their only opportunity. It was a very good defensive display, with good chances created for us, only real issue was the finishing.

Looking at Giles' quality from the left I think Gallagher at the back post is going to be a key conduit for goals for us. I think he would have got on one of those yesterday.

That said I wonder if he's so good we just become a bit one dimensional. All we did was give it to Giles when Rothwell running at them might have been a better option.

 

[booth]

6 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

That said I wonder if he's so good we just become a bit one dimensional. All we did was give it to Giles when Rothwell running at them might have been a better option.

That was part of the problem but Buckley and Rothwell were so ineffectual yesterday that I can see why TM would just resort to getting Giles to put balls in the box.

That was probably the worst I've seen Buckley play this season and Rothwell was so deep even when they had ten men. It was was one of them where Rothwell was a luxury because all he was doing was tapping it around with the defenders. Anyone could have done that.

Edited February 6, 2022 by booth

[DE.]

7 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Yes it was a poor goal but pretty much their only opportunity. It was a very good defensive display, with good chances created for us, only real issue was the finishing.

Looking at Giles' quality from the left I think Gallagher at the back post is going to be a key conduit for goals for us. I think he would have got on one of those yesterday.

That said I wonder if he's so good we just become a bit one dimensional. All we did was give it to Giles when Rothwell running at them might have been a better option.

 

Problem is right now we are relying on our defence being absolutely perfect and keeping clean sheets, as we simply cannot score regularly, as 2 goals in 6 games attests to.

A solid defence is the backbone of most promotion sides, but we need the attacking side to step up in the next few weeks as well. With BBD, Gallagher, Dolan and Khadra all returning imminently we should be OK for firepower, but we need these lads to hit the ground running as we are already beginning to lose ground fast and numerous teams below us are riding their own waves of momentum right now.

Edited February 6, 2022 by DE.

[arbitro]

26 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

He didn't have choice yesterday, the team with square pegs in round holes was due to Brereton and Khadra being unfit to start and Gallagher and Dolan not quite making it after injury themselves, we only had Hedges out of our 5 options there. That had the knock on effect of having to push Giles forward where he is less effective, which then left Zeefuik on the wrong side with Pickering and Edun also out. So you have 2 players in less than ideal positions because of 6 fitness concerns, at least 5 of which should clear in the next week or 2. It wasn't down to the manager having loads of options and tinkering, it was the complete opposite.

He is right in that the way that we play using a false 9 and 2 wide forwards has brought us the success to get us into 2nd. I do think that we could have done with another forward who has the mobility to play in those 2 wide forward positions, similar to Brereton and Gallagher who give us a bit more physicality to the other options. Saying that, it cant be easy to get similar to the options we have when he seemingly was in the loan market only based on his quotes last week.

This talk of having someone pressuring him "when we falter" seems counter-productive, we are still 2nd, our form has stuttered lately coinciding with some fitness issues, but why would someone being on his back after a run of 2 wins, 2 draws and 2 losses help, surely it would cause further panic.

When he brought Brereton on yesterday he played him almost as an old inside right but the right side was overloaded as was the left side. That just made it easy for the three Swansea centre halves to defend the many crosses we put in as the main threat in the air of Brereton was outside the box. In fact he actually delivered several crosses himself to nobody. Mowbray should have out Brereton right down the middle to work the Swansea centre halves and move them about. As it was they could keep their shape as they didn't really have anybody to mark.

If we are to go up games like yesterday are the ones we should be winning.

[booth]

6 minutes ago, DE. said:

Problem is right now we are relying on our defence being absolutely perfect and keeping clean sheets, as we simply cannot score regularly, as 2 goals in 6 games attests to.

A solid defence is the backbone of most promotion sides, but we need the attacking side to step up in the next few weeks as well. With BBD, Gallagher, Dolan and Khadra all returning imminently we should be OK for firepower, but we need these lads to hit the ground running as we are already beginning to lose ground fast and numerous teams below us are riding their own waves of momentum right now.

Do we know when Pickering and Dolan will be back?

[DE.]

6 minutes ago, booth said:

Do we know when Pickering and Dolan will be back?

Both most likely around the end of this month, if I recall correctly.

[roversfan99]

31 minutes ago, booth said:

Of course he did.

He had a choice to bring in cover for Brereton fully knowing he'd be without him. He had a choice not to send Butterworth, our only other striker, out on loan. Not ideal and not my first choice but preferable to putting TWO players out of position in order to fix a problem of our own making.

Mowbray finally solved the issue of Pickering being out, then negated that by putting our only fit LB up front and a RB in his position. Two positions alien to two players just getting to grips with the team. I don't understand why that was necessary.

Khadra looked fine to me so starting him as the left forward would have been far more preferable than Giles, who looks to be an excellent wing back. Then in the second half swap him for Brereton - or vice versa.

Someone should be on TM's back asking why after his most successful season yet, he's started reverting to type. And asking why he didn't bring in cover for Brereton in January when he admitted it was his choice not to do so. It didn't need to be a like for like, no one's expecting 20 goals or a player to the exact standard. Just cover so we aren't having to then have 2 players out of position compromising one side of the pitch as we saw yesterday.

There was absolutely no reason why Giles needed to begin as one of our forwards yesterday and evidence from the second half to suggest he's very comfortable and shouldn't be switched around from LWB.

There are 2 different arguments here, once about the January window, and one about yesterdays selection.

The first is the selection just based on who was available. One think I am sure of is that it couldn't be described as "tinkering." It is questioning how Mowbray has used very limited options based on unavailability of a number of players, most of which will imminently be available to start. Brereton had not since landed after a game at high altitude and was deemed not to be fit to start, when he came on he looked very sluggish, and Khadra had a hamstring injury and ducked out a couple of times when he was on, I am assuming that it was correct fitness wise that they couldn't start, I suppose that could be debating. But with the players left, I am not sure that there was another attacking player that could have meant us avoiding playing Giles further forward, which then had a domino effect of Zeefuik on the wrong side.

The second part is the January window. You mention Butterworth, he can't play 20 minutes without blowing out of his arse, and he has never scored a senior goal, he also doesn't try hard enough, and seldom has any impact on games, even if he was available amidst a lack of alternatives, I would have been very reluctant to start him. He isn't up to it, so loaning him out isn't an issue. Signing another forward is more complex, for me it would make no sense not to sign someone who can fit into the way we currently play, so ideally someone with pace who can play on the counter attack, someone who could run the channels and someone with physicality who could score a goal. I did want another forward but if it was going to be a loanee, then I suppose it is very difficult to get someone with all of those qualities.

10 minutes ago, booth said:

Do we know when Pickering and Dolan will be back?

Both are in training, not full training but Mowbray said that they were sprinting and kicking balls so hopefully very soon, they just needed signing off by the physios.

[Armchair supporter supremo]

50 minutes ago, booth said:

Of course he did.

He had a choice to bring in cover for Brereton fully knowing he'd be without him. He had a choice not to send Butterworth, our only other striker, out on loan. Not ideal and not my first choice but preferable to putting TWO players out of position in order to fix a problem of our own making.

Mowbray finally solved the issue of Pickering being out, then negated that by putting our only fit LB up front and a RB in his position. Two positions alien to two players just getting to grips with the team. I don't understand why that was necessary.

Khadra looked fine to me so starting him as the left forward would have been far more preferable than Giles, who looks to be an excellent wing back. Then in the second half swap him for Brereton - or vice versa.

Someone should be on TM's back asking why after his most successful season yet, he's started reverting to type. And asking why he didn't bring in cover for Brereton in January when he admitted it was his choice not to do so. It didn't need to be a like for like, no one's expecting 20 goals or a player to the exact standard. Just cover so we aren't having to then have 2 players out of position compromising one side of the pitch as we saw yesterday.

There was absolutely no reason why Giles needed to begin as one of our forwards yesterday and evidence from the second half to suggest he's very comfortable and shouldn't be switched around from LWB.

💯

[Ossydave]

33 minutes ago, booth said:

Do we know when Pickering and Dolan will be back?

Both in non contact training so 2-3 weeks

[booth]

22 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

There are 2 different arguments here, once about the January window, and one about yesterdays selection.

The first is the selection just based on who was available. One think I am sure of is that it couldn't be described as "tinkering." It is questioning how Mowbray has used very limited options based on unavailability of a number of players, most of which will imminently be available to start. Brereton had not since landed after a game at high altitude and was deemed not to be fit to start, when he came on he looked very sluggish, and Khadra had a hamstring injury and ducked out a couple of times when he was on, I am assuming that it was correct fitness wise that they couldn't start, I suppose that could be debating. But with the players left, I am not sure that there was another attacking player that could have meant us avoiding playing Giles further forward, which then had a domino effect of Zeefuik on the wrong side.

The second part is the January window. You mention Butterworth, he can't play 20 minutes without blowing out of his arse, and he has never scored a senior goal, he also doesn't try hard enough, and seldom has any impact on games, even if he was available amidst a lack of alternatives, I would have been very reluctant to start him. He isn't up to it, so loaning him out isn't an issue. Signing another forward is more complex, for me it would make no sense not to sign someone who can fit into the way we currently play, so ideally someone with pace who can play on the counter attack, someone who could run the channels and someone with physicality who could score a goal. I did want another forward but if it was going to be a loanee, then I suppose it is very difficult to get someone with all of those qualities.

Both are in training, not full training but Mowbray said that they were sprinting and kicking balls so hopefully very soon, they just needed signing off by the physios.

But talk of someone having those qualities means nothing when we played a left back there, sacrificing his qualities and playing a right back at left back. Neither Zeefuick or Giles looked comfortable in the first half.

I'd have rather had Butterworth and all his 20 minutes, a half fit Khadra/Brereton for half a match or even a striker from the under 18's/league 1 rather than put two players out of position and impact the defence.

It's not like we haven't had prior warning that LB has been a problem. Edun hasn't looked comfortable there. We finally got Giles in, problem solved and then... We play him up front.

We turn the single problem of who replaces Brereton into two problems.

Against Forest I hope he plays Giles at LWB come what may.

[L.A.Rover]

16 hours ago, Gav said:

@L.A.Rover Cheers for the reply, it’s hard to believe now that it was hard to see games in US at one point. The pub used to charge $20 to get in and I ended up in the car park listening to a radio for Rovers live commentary as the local feed had Spurs on most weekends……

 

Spurs or Man Utd. Felt like I was the only Rovers fan this side of the Mississippi! 

[roversfan99]

59 minutes ago, booth said:

But talk of someone having those qualities means nothing when we played a left back there, sacrificing his qualities and playing a right back at left back. Neither Zeefuick or Giles looked comfortable in the first half.

I'd have rather had Butterworth and all his 20 minutes, a half fit Khadra/Brereton for half a match or even a striker from the under 18's/league 1 rather than put two players out of position and impact the defence.

It's not like we haven't had prior warning that LB has been a problem. Edun hasn't looked comfortable there. We finally got Giles in, problem solved and then... We play him up front.

We turn the single problem of who replaces Brereton into two problems.

Against Forest I hope he plays Giles at LWB come what may.

I would be surprised if he wasn't, with hopefully Brereton, Hedges, Khadra and Gallagher all available to play.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, simongarnerisgod said:

tony is an extremely nice fellow but a poor manager and tactician,what makes it worse is he actually does`nt recognise the fact he`s limited coach wise,hence the tinkering around continually,the fact he`s not brought in a centre forward is frankly not acceptable either,god willing we`ll not fall away so badly as to miss out on the play offs,that really would be depressing

Look on the bright side, if we do miss out on the playoffs it’ll be taxi for Tony time.

[simongarnerisgod]

forest cutting through leicester like a dodgy vindaloo,i hope they come down a level on wednesday🤔

[TonyM]

6 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

forest cutting through leicester like a dodgy vindaloo,i hope they come down a level on wednesday🤔

Tearing them apart.....

[Silas]

Bit of a pattern isn't it.

Teams either hit form just before they play us, or failing that, they certainly find it during the match. 

[rigger]

31 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

 forest cutting through leicester like a dodgy vindaloo,i hope they come down a level on wednesday🤔

The Forest manager is an ugly bugger.

Edited February 6, 2022 by rigger

[Darrenbot]

5 minutes ago, rigger said:

The Forest manager is an ugly bugger.

They go 3-0 up and he looks like someones just shot his dog,smile a little!! With him and Mowbray on the sidelines on Wed it's not going to be a beauty contest 😀

Edited February 6, 2022 by Darrenbot

[Gav]

54 minutes ago, Darrenbot said:

They go 3-0 up and he looks like someones just shot his dog,smile a little!! With him and Mowbray on the sidelines on Wed it's not going to be a beauty contest 😀

Iain Dowie in the stands reporting for Sky, it should be a certificate 18.

[bazza]

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Look on the bright side, if we do miss out on the playoffs it’ll be taxi for Tony time.

Are you sure? Don't you know who our owners are and their track record?

[bazza]

Regarding the suggestion of bringing on Ayala, I would have brought him on to replace JPVH at the back and put JPVH up front for Giles' crosses. Nyambe off, Zeefuik to RB (he's a better attacker).

[Southside Rover]

We all knew yesterday was going to be tough based on the injuries and lack of activity in the window. It's odd reading so many people were shocked or disappointed in what was inevitable yesterday. At best against a poor Swansea team I thought the defence would see us through for a nil nil, with the optimist in me thinking maybe someone could nick a goal from a set play.

Buying a striker for one game when we know Khadra and Brereton are back for Forest is a waste of money, especially when signing up Gallagher and he too won't be far behind plus Dolan.

Unless it was going to be a 20 goal a season player, I just don't see the point in adding more of what we have.

Yesterday was always one to take it on the chin. We know what this group can do as they've shown all season. Adding Giles makes is stronger I'm sure. Jury is still out on Hedges for me, just not getting it.

As always we are left underwhelmed which sets it up perfectly for Forest mid week. Always when we least expect a performance, bang it comes and hopefully Forest will be over confident from today.

[RoverKyle]

32 minutes ago, Southside Rover said:

We all knew yesterday was going to be tough based on the injuries and lack of activity in the window. It's odd reading so many people were shocked or disappointed in what was inevitable yesterday. At best against a poor Swansea team I thought the defence would see us through for a nil nil, with the optimist in me thinking maybe someone could nick a goal from a set play.

Buying a striker for one game when we know Khadra and Brereton are back for Forest is a waste of money, especially when signing up Gallagher and he too won't be far behind plus Dolan.

Unless it was going to be a 20 goal a season player, I just don't see the point in adding more of what we have.

Yesterday was always one to take it on the chin. We know what this group can do as they've shown all season. Adding Giles makes is stronger I'm sure. Jury is still out on Hedges for me, just not getting it.

As always we are left underwhelmed which sets it up perfectly for Forest mid week. Always when we least expect a performance, bang it comes and hopefully Forest will be over confident from today.

Feel like there's been some harsh criticism of Hedges after that game. Obviously early days, but in a game where we didn't get the ball down and play much, I thought his pressing out of possession was good and he made plenty of positive runs.