Petrol Head?

[bluebruce]

14 hours ago, only2garners said:

bluebruce - have you considered getting a new EV on a lease deal? It may well be that the money is too much for you but there are deals for some of the newer cheaper EVs at fairly modest monthly payments and the deposit can be as low as 1 month. I haven't looked at any of these in detail as that wasn't the market I was in but on the surface the numbers seem to have come down a lot in the last 12 months. I imagine that's due to the slowdown in sales of EVs to private buyers.

I did have a looksie, but it appeared the cost of leases offsets the fuel savings, plus nothing to show at the end of it. Although I'd really like an EV for its own sake, and the environmental benefit is a definite positive, the main incentive for this decision right now is economic.

[Upside Down]

36 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Makita power tool batteries? They won't have thermal management systems to speak of, so their charge rate and longevity are going to be much shitter than the batteries in an advanced EV. Truly modern EVs, from the right brands, range and longevity just shouldn't be an issue as I keep saying. We have fairly old Teslas now that have managed hundreds of thousands of miles before the battery is done. And ranges of 370 miles (generally about 320 miles real world range) are enough for me to get nearly halfway back from London before needing a charge, which can be done by the time I've had something to eat.

But you live in Australia right? I get that it's different altogether out there if you're driving between cities. But infrastructure is improving, and cars are starting to be released with about 500 miles of range, with further battery tech improvements all the time. So hopefully in our lifetimes we'll all be driving some pretty impressive EVs.

Yeh it's definitely a concern, if I needed to go to London in a Zoe for a gig, I'm very likely to need to plan a very lengthy charge on the way, and hope I get a bay fairly quickly. I have friends in London, and where possible I'd likely use public transport and stay the night, as driving around London is a ballbag anyway. But like you say, at short notice that might not be possible so it's a concern.

Part of me has considered keeping the Peugeot as a backup for a long drive. But then I've still got to MOT it yearly, tax it (I could maybe do a SORN and activate the tax when I need it, not sure if that works at short notice), add it to my insurance instead of replacing it (or I could use Cuvva to insure it for a couple of days tbf). Just sitting around its tyres will get fucked and there may be other issues from not using it for ages. Starts to eat into all those fuel savings...

Besides, only time I've driven outside the North West since I went back to acting full time 2 years ago is Newcastle, and that was just once for a £150 (plus expenses) gig I could live without. So, driving far could come up, but in practice it hasn't. But yeh the option is preferred.

I think we face the same issues here.

The newer models have addressed a lot of the issues we've brought up but we're not fishing in that pond so it's the old cheap models that we're looking at.

 

[bluebruce]

So I've had a bit of a rethink and I'm now also considering ICE cars for under 2k, to get me by for another 2-3 years or so, until I can hopefully afford a better EV, which I think should be very possible by then both from a personal perspective and the changes expected in the market. It will also just save me the hassle of overthinking the purchase, as I tend to do with expensive items, and kick the can down the road.

Something reasonably efficient (like a Citroen C1 from 2013 that I found, but I don't trust the dealer based on reviews) could save me about £200 a year in fuel. Not the £800 that an EV would save me, but still helpful at a much lower purchase cost and with no worry about longer distances if they come up. Again after a few years it could have almost paid for itself. Especially since road taxes seem to be far lower on fuel efficient models (in fact it's free this year on that model, vs the £320 I'm paying this year! Not sure what it'll be next year after the changes). And probably the insurance would be slightly cheaper than the Zoes I was looking at, as it's older.

So if anybody has any advice on finding an ICE car for under 2k, with decent fuel economy and good reliability records for that model, I'd be very appreciative. Maybe would stretch to 2.5k if it was good enough. I need something that's not painfully slow, but doesn't need to be a beast. I'd say I can live with anything that's 0-60 in about 13 seconds or less. Anything at 14 seconds or longer and I fear for one particular merge lane I use a fair bit that has shit visibility and often has a lorry coming from the main lanes! I'm not too fussed what it looks like, even if it's scratched up, as I just want to save money and get to work, but can't really be bigger than my Peugeot 308 due to the tight parking at home. Doesn't have to be 5 doors.

One thing I've noticed in this category is virtually everything has a Cat S, Cat D, whatever category, marker (means it's been written off, for those who don't know, but to varying extents...might be something as simple as airbags having deployed and it costing more to replace them than the car is worth). I'm not sure how concerned to be by the categories that don't involve structural damage. I'm also not sure how much they affect insurance costs. Though I've been setting the mileage to 70k or less and the manufacture year to 2012 or later (my Peugeot is 91k miles and 2008, so I want something a bit fresher - purely to increase the chances of good reliability), so maybe older models in this range might not have Cat markers.

The best deals popping up tend to be from private sellers, not dealers. This gives me a bit of anxiety, as I feel like there's less recourse if something goes wrong, and maybe more chance that defects are being hidden (perhaps I'm naive in thinking most dealers will have given the car a proper look over and fix anything serious before selling?). How do other people feel about buying direct from private sellers?

Also, I've only really been checking Auto Trader, with a quick glance at Ebay. Any other good sites I should be using? Still looking for Zoes too btw, just need a better deal than the ones I'm currently finding.

[Ianrally]

This thread should be renamed Battery Boy. 

[bluebruce]

So, I found a Peugeot 108 (basically the same car mechanically as the Citroen C1), Allure version, that had only done about 40k miles and was only £2k. Had a Cat N on it though. Did all my research on it for a few days to make sure it was the right decision, was feeling very happy with it, went to call the guy and realised it had been taken off sale within the last half hour before I called! Second time in a week basically that exact same thing had happened.

Carried on looking, can't find that car for anything like the same price and mileage. But I've found a Citroen C1 Flair (C1 version of the Allure...basically 1.2 litre instead of the 1 litre entry models and various other add-ons) for the same price...don't like the appearance as much and it's an extra 20k miles, but gonna buy it as I'm sick of scouting and stressing over it, and it's still a good deal. Main concern is it's a Cat S rather than a Cat N, so it's a worse write off bracket and means it's suffered damage to the structural frame or chassis in the past. You can't tell, so it's clearly been fixed...hopefully to a good standard.

So yeh I'm gonna be sticking with petrol for a few more years...but the money maths add up. I think I've underestimated the benefit of the better fuel efficiency, having calculated again I think it will save me more like £300-400 a year in fuel (I think I undercalculated the Zoe's too, probably more like 1 to 1.2k savings). Then another £320 on the tax. Probably gonna scrap my Peugeot 308, should be about £300, as I don't want to lie about the problems the car has, and don't see that I'll get much more for it if I'm honest about its problems. So, essentially the C1 will cost me £1,700. Should essentially pay for itself inside 3 years if nothing major goes wrong. They have a very good reliability record too, so hopefully spunk a lot less in maintenance costs. The cam belts are advised to be changed every 60k miles, which it's done, but they only cost £500 when the dealership do them, let alone a garage.

In a few years, I'll probably assess the EV situation again.

It's slower than my current car, especially in the 50-70mph stretch, but quick enough to do the job, and it's tiny so it's nice and nimble for parking. More modern amenities than mine (I'll miss the automatic headlights though, for some reason it doesn't have them even though its sister model does, and I'll miss the extra storage a bit...also think I'll miss the sensors, it has a camera instead that I'm not used to and think that'll mean I need to watch the sides more as I won't get the beep and can only see the rear in the camera).

Picking it up on Thursday from Preston, then hopefully the saga is over for another few years! Looking forward to the cost savings and (fingers crossed) not constantly worrying my car will break!

[Upside Down]

1 hour ago, bluebruce said:

So, I found a Peugeot 108 (basically the same car mechanically as the Citroen C1), Allure version, that had only done about 40k miles and was only £2k. Had a Cat N on it though. Did all my research on it for a few days to make sure it was the right decision, was feeling very happy with it, went to call the guy and realised it had been taken off sale within the last half hour before I called! Second time in a week basically that exact same thing had happened.

Carried on looking, can't find that car for anything like the same price and mileage. But I've found a Citroen C1 Flair (C1 version of the Allure...basically 1.2 litre instead of the 1 litre entry models and various other add-ons) for the same price...don't like the appearance as much and it's an extra 20k miles, but gonna buy it as I'm sick of scouting and stressing over it, and it's still a good deal. Main concern is it's a Cat S rather than a Cat N, so it's a worse write off bracket and means it's suffered damage to the structural frame or chassis in the past. You can't tell, so it's clearly been fixed...hopefully to a good standard.

So yeh I'm gonna be sticking with petrol for a few more years...but the money maths add up. I think I've underestimated the benefit of the better fuel efficiency, having calculated again I think it will save me more like £300-400 a year in fuel (I think I undercalculated the Zoe's too, probably more like 1 to 1.2k savings). Then another £320 on the tax. Probably gonna scrap my Peugeot 308, should be about £300, as I don't want to lie about the problems the car has, and don't see that I'll get much more for it if I'm honest about its problems. So, essentially the C1 will cost me £1,700. Should essentially pay for itself inside 3 years if nothing major goes wrong. They have a very good reliability record too, so hopefully spunk a lot less in maintenance costs. The cam belts are advised to be changed every 60k miles, which it's done, but they only cost £500 when the dealership do them, let alone a garage.

In a few years, I'll probably assess the EV situation again.

It's slower than my current car, especially in the 50-70mph stretch, but quick enough to do the job, and it's tiny so it's nice and nimble for parking. More modern amenities than mine (I'll miss the automatic headlights though, for some reason it doesn't have them even though its sister model does, and I'll miss the extra storage a bit...also think I'll miss the sensors, it has a camera instead that I'm not used to and think that'll mean I need to watch the sides more as I won't get the beep and can only see the rear in the camera).

Picking it up on Thursday from Preston, then hopefully the saga is over for another few years! Looking forward to the cost savings and (fingers crossed) not constantly worrying my car will break!

Glad you finally found something that's meeting your requirements.

Assess the EV situation in a few years time, by then they may be more affordable and still a viable option.

As for parking, just use your mirrors and you'll be fine. It's easy to get used to, especially when you spend a few years driving trucks.

[bluebruce]

13 hours ago, Upside Down said:

Glad you finally found something that's meeting your requirements.

Assess the EV situation in a few years time, by then they may be more affordable and still a viable option.

As for parking, just use your mirrors and you'll be fine. It's easy to get used to, especially when you spend a few years driving trucks.

Thanks, yeh that's the plan. Hoping my income situation will have improved by then too. Suspect what I'm about to buy is cheaper than it should be too, so I may be able to get most of my money back on it at that time. Depending on if it keeps well, and what happens to the ICE second hand market.

It's not like I don't use my wing mirrors already, I guess it's just a safety blanket thing. And knowing the sensors are there enables me to be a bit more laissez faire, and put my focus elsewhere at times to get a fuller picture. I'm sure I'll get used to it though, and it's such a small number (a full metre shorter than my current car and 30cm saved on the width too) that it should be a doddle to slot in most spaces.

I more worry about the lack of auto headlights, after 7 years of driving my car not having to think about switching off the lights when I get out, I feel like it's inevitable I'll come back to a drained battery one day! But I'm going to get a little jumpstarter battery kit off Amazon for about 35 quid and keep that in the car in case of stupidity. The car may well beep at me if I get out with the lights left on though, we'll see. My mate's 2002 Micra I had to borrow for a bit did, so I'll be surprised if this doesn't. But my 2008-built Peugeot 308 didn't.

[bluebruce]

I was watching a Youtube documentary (I'll post it below) and my mind was a bit blown by something they said in it. It's about the Aptera (not the car on the video thumbnail) - a new car from a startup getting fairly close to release, that may have a range (on the biggest battery variant) of up to 1,000 miles. Which is pretty incredible to begin with, but it also incorporates solar panels into the body which may add up to 40 miles of range a day for free and with no hassle. Obviously that would be somewhere sunny, like California where it's being developed. If you lived somewhere like that, depending on your driving habits you might never need to charge the car.

But I already knew all that about it, so that wasn't what blew my mind. The main reason for its insane range isn't a new super battery, it's the amazing aerodynamic efficiency (apparently about 60% of a Toyota Camry's energy is generally used pushing air out of the way!). So how good is the drag reduction on this uniquely shaped car? The whole car has less drag than just one sideview mirror on an average American pickup truck!! That's just ludicrous. And it's not something they're making up based on flawed testing, they've been testing it at NASA facilities, with NASA scientists.

Whether the car makes it to market and is a success of course depends on many factors, especially since they're a startup so they'll need the funding to keep coming, but however you slice it that's a masterpiece of engineering.

 

Edited Tuesday at 23:07 by bluebruce

[bluebruce]

On the above car... you might think, as I did, 'oh well maybe it's really slow to get that efficiency'. Nope, top speed is 110mph which is perfectly ample and I imagine will mean you can go well above the speed limit even uphill, and 0-60mph on the 3-wheel drive version (yeh, 3 wheels, helps the centre of gravity and efficiency apparently) is a brisk 4 seconds, with 6 seconds for the front-wheel drive. It allegedly handles pretty well too. Only seats 2, but the boot space is larger than a Prius or Model 3.

I remember hearing about this car (I say car, in the US it'll apparently have to be classified as a motorcycle or autocycle!) about a year or two ago, but it went a bit quiet for a while so I assumed it would go the way of many other exciting tech projects. But recently I've seen videos of people test driving it, and it sounds much closer. The company said they wanted it out in 2024, but I'm guessing 2025 will be more realistic. Might take a bit longer to reach Europe though, and as ever we'll need a right-hand drive version making for us and a few others (they do plan to do that).

The design appearance is interesting, very different to any other car, and I suspect some people won't take to it at first. But it's certainly a lot prettier than a Cybertruck, and those have sold bizarrely well. Looks very futuristic. Shouldn't be stupidly expensive either, they're targetting prices between $25,900 to $46,000+ depending on the spec and customisation. Sounds like a big price range but they're offering batteries that do as little as 250 miles, which is still decent when you add in the solar charging.

Speaking of the solar, I previously thought you might not get too much benefit from that over here, but Aptera reckon they've calculated that 'even the most dreary places' will average about 8,000 miles of free charging a year. That's pretty much as much as I drive, so I'd probably only have to top it up a little in the winter.

This thing is even more impressive than I thought if the numbers are to be believed, and could be an absolute game changer if it scales up well at the prices they intend. And that's just the first iteration... add in better batteries, better solar, better material technologies and generally learning how to improve it, and who knows what it could become. Definitely one to watch if it gets to the finish line.