Are Rovers a 'soft' team?

[jim mk2]

The question has to be asked, because ever since the Wigan FA Cup match, when Wigan bullied us and beat us and knocked us out of the cup, we've been on the end of some batterings and been found wanting.

Before Wigan, we were on the crest of a wave in the Championship, riding high in 2nd place and looking at possibly going top, but since then it's been a horrible downward slide

It seems to me Wigan provided the blueprint for Championship managers scratching their heads at our brilliant run and wondering how to counter it - rough us up with tough tackles, put the boot in where necessary,  knock us out of stride and we'll capitulate. We're the nice lads who don't bite back

Sheffield United last night was a case in point, they had some bruisers in their team who weren't afraid to make their presence felt. One was sent off (and it could have been more), but they scrambled a winner by making the corner a jostling physical contest in which Kaminski dropped the ball and they lashed home the winner from the rebound. The Luton, Forest, Swansea, and Hull matches were much the same.  

Then your look at our team. How many warriors do we have? The likes of Lenihan and Wharton etc are hard lads but apart from Travis who do we have in midfield to mix it with the tough nuts?  Rothwell and Buckley certainly aren't that type of player while up front none of our forwards would say boo to a goose. In the case of Gallagher, he's as much physical presence as the proverbial passing butterfly

So are we falling out of the promotion race not just because we can't score goals but because we're a basically a bunch of "nice" boys who opponents know can be bullied into submission? Are we just too soft? 

 

 

[Displaced Rover]

I don't think we're soft, we're just not very good.

A surprisingly strong defence (no one saw that coming at the start of the year did they), coupled with a freak run of scoring from a previously much maligned player has had us well above where we are in terms of overall quality. Did anyone think we were a top 6 side pre-season?

I honestly think stuff has just stopped going our way. There was a large element of luck with much of our winning run.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

27 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

The question has to be asked, because ever since the Wigan FA Cup match, when Wigan bullied us and beat us and knocked us out of the cup, we've been on the end of some batterings and been found wanting.

Before Wigan, we were on the crest of a wave in the Championship, riding high in 2nd place and looking at possibly going top, but since then it's been a horrible downward slide

It seems to me Wigan provided the blueprint for Championship managers scratching their heads at our brilliant run and wondering how to counter it - rough us up with tough tackles, put the boot in where necessary,  knock us out of stride and we'll capitulate. We're the nice lads who don't bite back

Sheffield United last night was a case in point, they had some bruisers in their team who weren't afraid to make their presence felt. One was sent off (and it could have been more), but they scrambled a winner by making the corner a jostling physical contest in which Kaminski dropped the ball and they lashed home the winner from the rebound. The Luton, Forest, Swansea, and Hull matches were much the same.  

Then your look at our team. How many warriors do we have? The likes of Lenihan and Wharton etc are hard lads but apart from Travis who do we have in midfield to mix it with the tough nuts?  Rothwell and Buckley certainly aren't that type of player while up front none of our forwards would say boo to a goose. In the case of Gallagher, he's as much physical presence as the proverbial passing butterfly

So are we falling out of the promotion race not just because we can't score goals but because we're a basically a bunch of "nice" boys who opponents know can be bullied into submission? Are we just too soft? 

 

 

It's a good question and one that interests me a lot. You need hardy boys , battlers to get out of this league and as you correctly say Sheffield pulled a few strokes last night. It shouldn't have been let fly. 

I think we have showed it more this season than we have for a long time. Perhaps the fact we are where we are means teams give us more of it. This is new for us, it's been a long time. 

I agree the only actual hard lads are Lenihan and Wharton. You can add Ayala too. Travis is comical. I like him and what he does, but a proper hard man would swat him aside. Also agree that Gallagher is a wimp. 

Johnson is as well to be fair, but his ability has wained. You add him and Ayala though and we immediately become nastier 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Bigdoggsteel

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I’ve been saying it for years Jim. Name me one of his signings that opponents wouldn’t want to play against because of their physicality.

Maybe Smallwood, Van Hecke can hold his own,  then you’ve said it. 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[dingles staying down 4ever]

On 24/02/2022 at 18:47, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I’ve been saying it for years Jim. Name me one of his signings that opponents wouldn’t want to play against because of their physicality.

Maybe Smallwood, Van Hecke can hold his own,  then you’ve said it. 

Johnson is a hardman.......its just he hasn't had the legs since he joined.

TRavis isn;t hard....he's petulent a bit like Savage. He'll start a fight but then hide behind his minders

[roversfan99]

We have the 2nd worst disciplinary record in the league, now of course that doesnt totally correlate with aggression but I think its an easy and perhaps misguided conclusion to suggest that we have a soft team.

Football ultimately has changed massively even from the Souness/Hughes days when we had senior leaders throughout, full of aggression when needed.

@Bigdoggsteel you say that "You need hardy boys , battlers to get out of this league." Is that true? Would you consider Norwich, Brentford and Watford to be bunches of "hardy boy battlers" last season?

The main reason for our poor form is an inability to score at the moment, not helped by our main striker being out. I also think that having had such success playing on the counter attack, our opponents are perhaps wising up and when we have to break teams down, we can struggle. I don't necessarily think that there are many questions about spirit or heart.

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

19 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

We have the 2nd worst disciplinary record in the league, now of course that doesnt totally correlate with aggression but I think its an easy and perhaps misguided conclusion to suggest that we have a soft team.

Football ultimately has changed massively even from the Souness/Hughes days when we had senior leaders throughout, full of aggression when needed.

@Bigdoggsteel you say that "You need hardy boys , battlers to get out of this league." Is that true? Would you consider Norwich, Brentford and Watford to be bunches of "hardy boy battlers" last season?

The main reason for our poor form is an inability to score at the moment, not helped by our main striker being out. I also think that having had such success playing on the counter attack, our opponents are perhaps wising up and when we have to break teams down, we can struggle. I don't necessarily think that there are many questions about spirit or heart.

 

How many bookings have we had for “ little lad “ fouls ?  Look at Rothwell’s last couple. Little trips from behind. Brererton’s another, kicking the ball away, arguing with the ref. It’s pathetic . Buckley is the same - 10 bookings and probably not one for a real foul. If you’re going to get booked at least make it worthwhile.

[Upside Down]

I think recently they could be well described by another four letter word beginning with s.

[SuperBrfc]

Good question. I think we have been a soft touch for years and have found it difficult, in the main, against physical opponents. For example, the big lad, Diedhou at Bristol City would often cause us bother. As would somebody like Nuhiu at Sheff Wednesday. It's a problem which hasn't gone away completely.

I remember posts on here in the past expressing concern ahead of facing a physical team. It was only back in September, before the Cardiff game at Ewood, that I predicted a Cardiff win because I thought they would bully us. That was proven wrong on that occasion, but we are still susceptible to it as shown by the Wigan game, the Forest game, where Davis ran us ragged, and last night.

The biggest problem, imo, is our powder puff midfield. Rothwell and Buckley go missing too often and are easy to bully out of a game. Travis, whilst decent at what he does, is a pretend hard man who can't cut it against the truly physical midfielders. If we went up somehow and kept that midfield trio they would get battered.

What has changed since the Fulham game is our defence has toughened up and put in a number of 'no nonsense' displays. Our defence can mix it, so we aren't as much as a soft touch at the back, Travis can mix it to an extent, but the other 5 in the more attacking roles are as soft as anything. Teams like Sheff United can target that 5 and boot them out of the game, as we saw. It's a mixture of that softness and us not creating many chances lately that has seen us drop points.

Lenihan, Wharton and Ayala fit the warrior tag. Johnson maybe does too, even though his legs are going. 

I noticed the Boro and Forest fans complaining about us being "dirty" and overly physical when we played them recently. I was quite pleased to read that as we haven't been labelled as that for a long time. Our attackers need to shape up though.

[andyroversmad]

Soft as shite this lot 

[lraC]

I think the worst team we have come across this year, so far as being a hard and dirty team (Crazy gang 2022 version) were Luton, especially at their place. We stood up to them, pretty well and got a point. Three would have been better, but they are in and around the play off positions, due to their style not their quality.

[jim mk2]

Lots of people complaining about some of the Fulham "dirty" players and the antics of the likes of the Mitrovic and the pony tailed centre half in particular but the match provided another example of how Rovers get bullied out of games.

Our pygmy lightweight forward line that started the match was a joke - the Fulham defenders must have looked at Dolan and Khadra and Giles are been sniggering to themselves. Tosin played most of the match barely having to break sweat

We've needed some tougher nuts in the team for some while, forwards who will rough up the centre halves and midfield players who will put their foot in when needed.

We're far too "nice"

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Lots of people complaining about some of the Fulham "dirty" players and the antics of the likes of the Mitrovic and the pony tailed centre half in particular but the match provided another example of how Rovers get bullied out of games.

Our pygmy lightweight forward line that started the match was a joke - the Fulham defenders must have looked at Dolan and Khadra and Giles are been sniggering to themselves. Tosin played most of the match barely having to break sweat

We've needed some tougher nuts in the team for some while, forwards who will rough up the centre halves and midfield players who will put their foot in when needed.

We're far too "nice"

 

Rabbits in the headlights yesterday. Mowbray doesn’t sign the likes of Mark Hughes or Andy Todd. He never has here.

[Ianrally]

I was just thinking exactly that TS. The type of player we all used to hate, Hughes, Batty, Todd, Savage, etc.  

When they wore the blue and white they became gods, they were hard and stood no messing and we loved them for it. 

[DeeCee]

3 hours ago, Ianrally said:

I was just thinking exactly that TS. The type of player we all used to hate, Hughes, Batty, Todd, Savage, etc.  

When they wore the blue and white they became gods, they were hard and stood no messing and we loved them for it. 

Exactly! BJ and DL the most steadfast but no one with real bite, LT nearest but not physical enough imo

[Dan]

8 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Rabbits in the headlights yesterday. Mowbray doesn’t sign the likes of Mark Hughes or Andy Todd. He never has here.

TM has shown he doesn’t like strong characters; he likes yes men. Anyone with an opinion that is different to his lordship would be dropped. 

[tomphil]

Certainly aren't a soft team at all the back line and Travis will have it with anyone and Gallagher can put it about.  What we are is a bit lightweight physically due to the age and size of some of our lads.

If he wants to persist with false 9 then bring in a proper guy for the job in summer, preferably somebody strong enough. Bucko can go deeper where he belongs when Rothwell departs.

[Exiled_Rover]

On 24/02/2022 at 17:20, jim mk2 said:

The question has to be asked, because ever since the Wigan FA Cup match, when Wigan bullied us and beat us and knocked us out of the cup, we've been on the end of some batterings and been found wanting.

Before Wigan, we were on the crest of a wave in the Championship, riding high in 2nd place and looking at possibly going top, but since then it's been a horrible downward slide

It seems to me Wigan provided the blueprint for Championship managers scratching their heads at our brilliant run and wondering how to counter it - rough us up with tough tackles, put the boot in where necessary,  knock us out of stride and we'll capitulate. We're the nice lads who don't bite back

Sheffield United last night was a case in point, they had some bruisers in their team who weren't afraid to make their presence felt. One was sent off (and it could have been more), but they scrambled a winner by making the corner a jostling physical contest in which Kaminski dropped the ball and they lashed home the winner from the rebound. The Luton, Forest, Swansea, and Hull matches were much the same.  

Then your look at our team. How many warriors do we have? The likes of Lenihan and Wharton etc are hard lads but apart from Travis who do we have in midfield to mix it with the tough nuts?  Rothwell and Buckley certainly aren't that type of player while up front none of our forwards would say boo to a goose. In the case of Gallagher, he's as much physical presence as the proverbial passing butterfly

So are we falling out of the promotion race not just because we can't score goals but because we're a basically a bunch of "nice" boys who opponents know can be bullied into submission? Are we just too soft? 

 

 

Wigan's blueprint was our Keeper throwing two balls into the back of his own net.  

We were entirely comfortable in that game until Tony's mate's son fucked us.

[roverandout]

Andy Todd would have kicked mitrovic up the arse like he did dugarry

[K-Hod]

We aren’t soft, but we could definitely be harder….

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, roverandout said:

Andy Todd would have kicked mitrovic up the arse like he did dugarry

Or “accidentally “ bumped into him as he did with Van Persie.

[Crimpshrine]

The likes of Hughes, Todd, Savage etc were tough guys but they also had nous and leadership qualities that other players responded to. Their attitude spread throughout the team. We have not had anyone with those characteristics for a long time. 

When we go behind in a game there is nobody galvanising and encouraging his team mates. We need a leader as much as we need a hard man.

[windymiller7]

31 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

We aren’t soft, but we could definitely be harder….

That's what she said! 😄

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

12 hours ago, windymiller7 said:

That's what she said! 😄

The fact that it’s always game over when we go behind tells me how hard most of the players are. That’s what happens with a soft set up.

[Waggy76]

22 hours ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Wigan's blueprint was our Keeper throwing two balls into the back of his own net.  

We were entirely comfortable in that game until Tony's mate's son fucked us.

Yes but Tony tinkered to allow his mates son a game ....