Transfer Window - COMPLETE. Where’s Gregg?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

16 minutes ago, Tom said:

You’ve got to be a bit more mindful of throwing young defenders in, the exuberance of youth can be a blessing for forwards as the outcome can be glory with less risk.

For defenders they play with the same fearlessness but can get exposed, Phil Jones debut was sensational but I remember a young Jay McEveley getting a lesson for getting carried away and over committing against Liverpool or United at Ewood 

If Ash is as good as we hear though I imagine we’ll see him this season

Sam Barnes seems to go below the radar but has travelled with the team, captained the under 23’s at times as well I believe 

Yes there’s a big difference in playing a 17 year old striker and a 17 year old centre half.

[pomster]

16 minutes ago, Tom said:

You’ve got to be a bit more mindful of throwing young defenders in, the exuberance of youth can be a blessing for forwards as the outcome can be glory with less risk.

For defenders they play with the same fearlessness but can get exposed, Phil Jones debut was sensational but I remember a young Jay McEveley getting a lesson for getting carried away and over committing against Liverpool or United at Ewood 

If Ash is as good as we hear though I imagine we’ll see him this season

Sam Barnes seems to go below the radar but has travelled with the team, captained the under 23’s at times as well I believe 

I remember Jay putting Beckham in his place down at ewood,

[lraC]

3 minutes ago, pomster said:

I remember Jay putting Beckham in his place down at ewood,

The league cup semi- final at Old Trafford, was the best I saw him play. 

Based on that performance, I thought we had a wonder kid, but sadly, it didn't work out for him.

[Wheelton Blue]

35 minutes ago, Tom said:

You’ve got to be a bit more mindful of throwing young defenders in, the exuberance of youth can be a blessing for forwards as the outcome can be glory with less risk.

For defenders they play with the same fearlessness but can get exposed, Phil Jones debut was sensational but I remember a young Jay McEveley getting a lesson for getting carried away and over committing against Liverpool or United at Ewood 

If Ash is as good as we hear though I imagine we’ll see him this season

Sam Barnes seems to go below the radar but has travelled with the team, captained the under 23’s at times as well I believe 

Sam Barnes is one who I think will be given opportunity.

He's now injury free, has played a lot of games as captain of the U23s, and is ready for the next step.

He was scheduled to play last pre-season, but got injured early doors. He's with the squad in Portugal.

[Wheelton Blue]

1 hour ago, 1864roverite said:

I wonder then why the top clubs in England are covering him? Must be something there me thinks

Of course there's something there.

The point I was making was not about potential, but around expectations. It's a lot to expect any 17 year old to make the jump from a handful of U23 games to playing regularly at Championship level, especially at centre half.

[tomphil]

Rooney was a physical beast for his age he was footballs answer to Mike Tyson so coupled with the talent he was ready.

Jones looked like a 30 year playing with the kids also and Hanley was built for it at a young age.  All this makes a massive difference so that is what will decide if/when Phillips is truly ready.

If he hasn't the physical side of it yet he'll struggle like countless others despite whatever talent he has on the ball.  I think Van Hecke last season was a good yard stick because of his raw aggression.  

A couple of years older than Phillips though.

[1864roverite]

19 minutes ago, Wheelton Blue said:

Of course there's something there.

The point I was making was not about potential, but around expectations. It's a lot to expect any 17 year old to make the jump from a handful of U23 games to playing regularly at Championship level, especially at centre half.

Not to sure I agree there is always a player that gets a chance and becomes a sensation. Rooney, Owen are examples of this indeed we have had our own previously at Ewood with Phil Jones his debut games sealed his rise to superstar bracket even if injury marred his United career

[Pick43]

Although Phillips is obviously a talented youngster who posses many of the raw attributes (strength, power, speed, good physique etc) he is only 17 and may need a bit of time. Paul Van Hecke is 22 (5 years is a lot of time in football). Would be great to see him around the first team this season though, along with a number of the other promising young players at the club. Some good loans and 3/4 good up and coming permanent signings also needed; minimum. COYB.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

8 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Rooney was a physical beast for his age he was footballs answer to Mike Tyson so coupled with the talent he was ready.

Jones looked like a 30 year playing with the kids also and Hanley was built for it at a young age.  All this makes a massive difference so that is what will decide if/when Phillips is truly ready.

If he hasn't the physical side of it yet he'll struggle like countless others despite whatever talent he has on the ball.  I think Van Hecke last season was a good yard stick because of his raw aggression.  

A couple of years older than Phillips though.

There’s also gaining football intelligence. Where to pass and when to pass. Some players just lend you the ball. They pass it to you just to get rid of it. Anywhere will do. Good players pass it to you so you’re on your better foot etc

I remember listening to Malcolm Alison talking about what a clever player Alan Ball was. He showed an incident were Ball was in possession in the old inside right channel about 30 yards from goal. The right full back broke on his outside and was looking for a pass. Ball could have easily passed the ball into his stride. He didn’t do that, he played the ball up towards the byeline so that when the full back sprinted to the ball his only option was to cross the ball.

Allison said that was “ Bally pulling the strings, he knew the full back would dither if he passed it directly to him, so he played a pass that only gave him the option of crossing the ball. “  Clever.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

9 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Not to sure I agree there is always a player that gets a chance and becomes a sensation. Rooney, Owen are examples of this indeed we have had our own previously at Ewood with Phil Jones his debut games sealed his rise to superstar bracket even if injury marred his United career

Apart from injury I think Phil Jones marred his United career. He never developed the mental side of the game. He was still making the same mistakes at Utd that he was making as a lad at Rovers.

[Wheelton Blue]

13 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Not to sure I agree there is always a player that gets a chance and becomes a sensation. Rooney, Owen are examples of this indeed we have had our own previously at Ewood with Phil Jones his debut games sealed his rise to superstar bracket even if injury marred his United career

So 2 players out of literally thousands, then.

As I said, 'expectations'.

[1864roverite]

7 minutes ago, Wheelton Blue said:

So 2 players out of literally thousands, then.

As I said, 'expectations'.

Every once in a while a player of superb talent emerges - I have seen this lad play and from the very first time I watched him he was head and shoulders above older players - these days the huge clubs nurture their own from a very young age and often gobble up the talent on offer at other clubs for big money - at the very least if he progresses and subsequently moves for big money it’s kudos to the Ewood coaches granted he might get injured tomorrow and it’s career over but for me he ranks alongside six or seven really good talented players coming through the club - here’s hoping they all progress to become stars in blue and white shirts of BRFC

[rickard]

There are quite a few interesting players with expiring contracts in 2022 from Allsvenskan in Sweden. I'm not sure what the possibilities are of signing players from Sweden these days are. But I guess they would be familiar to JDT

Some interesting ones in my opinion:

Leo Bengtsson (24) - LW

Jo-Inge Berget (31), Winger/Striker - Worked with JDT in Malmö

Adam Carlén (22) CDM, 1,93 m, but with good feet and quite mobile.

I'm sure there are more, but these are the ones I found at a quick glance. Not sure, as I said, if we would even be able to sign any of them with the existing rules.  

[Wheelton Blue]

35 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Every once in a while a player of superb talent emerges - I have seen this lad play and from the very first time I watched him he was head and shoulders above older players - these days the huge clubs nurture their own from a very young age and often gobble up the talent on offer at other clubs for big money - at the very least if he progresses and subsequently moves for big money it’s kudos to the Ewood coaches granted he might get injured tomorrow and it’s career over but for me he ranks alongside six or seven really good talented players coming through the club - here’s hoping they all progress to become stars in blue and white shirts of BRFC

I don't disagree with most of what you say. I've seen him in the flesh a couple of times; on the first occasion I thought 'Wow'.

All I'm (trying) to say, is that while I think he has all the potential in the world, I think it's premature to expect him to become a superstar - or indeed a first team regular this season coming as is being suggested - at this moment in time.

 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Wheelton Blue

[roverandout]

Duff was a generational talent.  At 18 he was turning defenders inside out

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, JoeH said:

Let's not use my word as gospel, I'll get a lot of stick for that! I do think he's a generational talent, he's the best player in the country at his age and the only thing that could stop him for me is injuries (which is a fear for all young players). Glad to hear he's signed a 3 year deal from July 1st. Great news.

It is a hell of a claim but it depends on your definition of a "generational talent." I don't doubt that admittedly at a very, very young age, he may well be the best CB of his age in the country but to me, that isn't a generational talent. Surely a generational talent is one of a few (at a push, suppose you could argue its just one) at one time, so at the moment, maybe Foden, Haaland, Mbappe and perhaps a couple of others. 

[rigger]

3 hours ago, Wheelton Blue said:

I fear that peoples' expectations of Phillips are getting a bit much.

Hasn't the lad has only played a dozen or so games for the U23s?

But in every game that he has played, he has been impressive, and for various reasons.

[Wheelton Blue]

2 minutes ago, rigger said:

But in every game that he has played, he has been impressive, and for various reasons.

Agreed, see my last post.

[bluebruce]

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

Rooney was a physical beast for his age he was footballs answer to Mike Tyson so coupled with the talent he was ready.

Jones looked like a 30 year playing with the kids also and Hanley was built for it at a young age.  All this makes a massive difference so that is what will decide if/when Phillips is truly ready.

If he hasn't the physical side of it yet he'll struggle like countless others despite whatever talent he has on the ball.  I think Van Hecke last season was a good yard stick because of his raw aggression.  

A couple of years older than Phillips though.

The physical side seems to be the most impressive thing about him. 6 ft 5, and when we played Spurs u23s, there was a scrap between the players...the lad who started it was charging towards someone else and Phillips pinned him to the spot with one hand. Didn't look like it was any effort for him at all.

Don't worry about the physical side, he's huge and he's strong. The question will be whether he can adapt quickly enough to the mental and positional sides of the senior game.

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, Wheelton Blue said:

Of course there's something there.

The point I was making was not about potential, but around expectations. It's a lot to expect any 17 year old to make the jump from a handful of U23 games to playing regularly at Championship level, especially at centre half.

I think he should be around the first team squad learning and developing here and not on loan somewhere else

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

It is a hell of a claim but it depends on your definition of a "generational talent." I don't doubt that admittedly at a very, very young age, he may well be the best CB of his age in the country but to me, that isn't a generational talent. Surely a generational talent is one of a few (at a push, suppose you could argue its just one) at one time, so at the moment, maybe Foden, Haaland, Mbappe and perhaps a couple of others. 

Have you ever seen Ash Phillips play?

[Mercer]

4 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Yes there’s a big difference in playing a 17 year old striker and a 17 year old centre half.

Mistakes get punished more but let's not forget the likes of Duncan Edwards (16), Mike England (18), Bobby Moore (17), David O'Leary (17), Alex-Arnold (18) etc - all top, top defenders debuting as youngsters, holding down first team places in the highest level of football and also representing their countries.

Whether a defender, midfielder or forward, if you are good enough then you are old enough - simple as that, no ifs and buts. 

[Dreams of 1995]

8 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Mistakes get punished more but let's not forget the likes of Duncan Edwards (16), Mike England (18), Bobby Moore (17), David O'Leary (17), Alex-Arnold (18) etc - all top, top defenders debuting as youngsters, holding down first team places in the highest level of football and also representing their countries.

Whether a defender, midfielder or forward, if you are good enough then you are old enough - simple as that, no ifs and buts. 

Exactly

This notion that 'kids' aren't good enough because of their age is just silly

A famous crap pundit was made to eat those words with the Class of 92

Who else here remembers Jones' performance vs Drogba? Sensational. Injury blighted career but it was clear to anybody with a brain he was good enough. He had just turned 18 when he made Drogba look a bit of a mug. Absolutely clattered Lampard if I remember correctly. Ewood's roof nearly came off.

Phillips has just turned 17 so he may need a year in the gym to replicate that performance but if he is good enough everybody will know. You won't come across as physical a player as Didier Drogba in this league or as good a team as that Chelsea squad

 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Dreams of 1995

[Wheelton Blue]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

I think he should be around the first team squad learning and developing here and not on loan somewhere else

The best way to 'learn and develop' is by playing games.

[chaddyrovers]

The LT has reported that Rovers are targeting up 6 signings this summer with right back, centre back, a striker and midfielders . Under 23's head coach Mike Sheron has made the trip to Portugal with the first team squad.

Also from the article "Outgoing head of recruitment John Park had begun drawing up lists of players for positions, and price ranges, prior to Tomasson’s appointment.

Park will leave the club this week at the end of his contract, with the search for a new transfer chief, who will work alongside Broughton, under way.

Broughton will return to the UK ahead of the squad, who are due back on Sunday, as Rovers look to the market for new signings.

Those will be focused on Tomasson’s style of play which is set to focus on high intensity football.

The new head coach held meetings with Academy staff, and coaches, about wanting to implement that philosophy across Rovers’ youth sides to make the transition period easier."

Blackburn Rovers transfer latest as squad train in Portugal | Lancashire Telegraph

 

Lancs Live article on Seven right-backs Blackburn Rovers could target to replace Ryan Nyambe with

Seven right-backs Blackburn Rovers could target to replace Ryan Nyambe with - LancsLive

Nathan Byrne would be quality signing. I think Callum Brittain would be another quality signing. If we were to look at loan player than Ethan Laird who was 

 

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

I think he should be around the first team squad learning and developing here and not on loan somewhere else

Have you ever seen Ash Phillips play?

No. Indeed, no one has in actual mens football.

But my comments to Joe where in no way in relation to judgements of Ash Phillips' ability and potential. It was around the outlandish comment that he could be a "generational talent." I was trying to ascertain whether his definition of a generational talent was different to mine whereby only a few players every generation could be defined as such, eg players like Mbappe and Foden in this generation. I don't argue against that he may well be the best centre back in the country at his age. The debate was about the description more than the player.