Transfer Window - COMPLETE. Where’s Gregg?

[unsall]

57 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Which is precisely my point.

Plenty of folk are keen to take Waggott's word for it, not just in this instance but in most other areas of concern.

"We've done a,b,c"

"We've offered x,y,z"

"We've got big bids on the table for new players"

"We've done all we can"

"It's not our fault"

Time after time stuff he comes out with then doesn't happen. I just don't get why people are so keen to believe the party line when he's got such a track record for bullshit or saying things that don't happen.

Player after player depart for nothing, costing the club millions in lost player value, yet rather than question what the hell people like Waggott are up to instead it's easier to look away from the club - FFP rules, crowds, income - all the usual easy excuses. Responsibility starts at home. 

And lets be honest we are only talking about Ash Phillips now because of the lack of CBs we have following another exodus this summer. If we'd have recruited properly up to this point we wouldn't even be considering putting him in the squad.

And how would you make him sign a professional contract, it’s very difficult how the system works, obviously with all the hype as to his talent, the big boys start sniffing and the agent wants him to sign for a big club and get his nice cut.

For all the faults Waggot has you can’t keep blaming him for everything especially in this circumstance.

Just tell me how you would get him to sign instead of Spurs, Man U etc.

What you need to do is have a meeting with Waggot and tell him how to get his signature over the line…

[Spartakfenni]

1 hour ago, slowmo said:

Regarding Philips and other stand out youth players, there should be a fixed  % of future transfer fee paid to the player developing clubs .

Ie now with him potentially signing a pro contract with spurs at 17 , rovers should get 30% of future fee. Previous club 10%

It might slightly put the big fish off, from youth player poaching 

What happens IF the player goes to one one the biggest clubs in England and stays for the majority of his career. Then in his 30’s moves on on a free like Rooney. His club has won all the major honours and the club developing the player gets fuck all and no sell on fee. 

[had.e.nuff]

6 minutes ago, JohnD said:

I think our pay structure is at fault.

Why can't Phillips stay until he's 24 and earning £4k pw🤠

Always just one bad tackle or fall from the end of a career.

What would you advise your son to do in these circumstances?

that could happen now and where would that leave him if he plays now.cant see why we cant just insert a release clause in his contract so both parties are happy

[Exiled_Rover]

21 minutes ago, JohnD said:

I think our pay structure is at fault.

Why can't Phillips stay until he's 24 and earning £4k pw🤠

Always just one bad tackle or fall from the end of a career.

What would you advise your son to do in these circumstances?

Repay the club that found and nurtured him. 

Looks like Bellingham handled it the right way. 

[islander200]

20 minutes ago, unsall said:

And how would you make him sign a professional contract, it’s very difficult how the system works, obviously with all the hype as to his talent, the big boys start sniffing and the agent wants him to sign for a big club and get his nice cut.

For all the faults Waggot has you can’t keep blaming him for everything especially in this circumstance.

Just tell me how you would get him to sign instead of Spurs, Man U etc.

What you need to do is have a meeting with Waggot and tell him how to get his signature over the line…

I agree that there is little Waggott could have done and its the rules that are at fault here.I also don't think we should be setting the precedent in giving him a silly wage due to his potential,as then when the next one comes along or even Batty who has interest they will be looking for similar money. 

However I agree with JHRover that Waggott shouldn't have been telling the press that the deal was sorted and as someone else said why was the manager speaking so openly about him throughout last season,I appreciate his talent would have been known elsewhere but still what purpose did it serve speaking about him as much as he did,if no stonewall guarantee the contract would be signed it should have been a no comment.Mowbray and Waggott have been around long enough to know unless a contract is signed then a players word means nothing.They would have also been aware that bigger clubs that think nothing over paying their better prospects 10k a week would come calling 

 

[damo100]

1 hour ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

What more could he have done in these circumstances ?

Maybe had he offered a better contract, Rothwell, Lenihan, Nyambe starts you thinking heh 😉 

[neophox]

Think Van Hecke will come back...

[Ossydave]

Has JB ever got anything right? I'm yet to see it as far as I can remember 🤣

[RevidgeBlue]

37 minutes ago, Spartakfenni said:

What happens IF the player goes to one one the biggest clubs in England and stays for the majority of his career. Then in his 30’s moves on on a free like Rooney. His club has won all the major honours and the club developing the player gets fuck all and no sell on fee. 

Any add on clauses would have to be triggered EITHER by a sale or a large number of first team appearances to prevent that happening.

[J*B]

2 minutes ago, Ossydave said:

Has JB ever got anything right? I'm yet to see it as far as I can remember 🤣

Ayala!! I got that! The kit colours, does that count? 

[RevidgeBlue]

13 minutes ago, islander200 said:

I agree that there is little Waggott could have done and its the rules that are at fault here.I also don't think we should be setting the precedent in giving him a silly wage due to his potential,as then when the next one comes along or even Batty who has interest they will be looking for similar money. 

However I agree with JHRover that Waggott shouldn't have been telling the press that the deal was sorted and as someone else said why was the manager speaking so openly about him throughout last season,I appreciate his talent would have been known elsewhere but still what purpose did it serve speaking about him as much as he did,if no stonewall guarantee the contract would be signed it should have been a no comment.Mowbray and Waggott have been around long enough to know unless a contract is signed then a players word means nothing.They would have also been aware that bigger clubs that think nothing over paying their better prospects 10k a week would come calling 

 

Not sure you can say Waggott has done all he can etc without knowing what we're offering. Seems likely Phillips is a generational talent who in today's market could be a £50m or £60m asset to Spurs in years to come. I wouldn't mind wagering we've offered Phillips the same terms as any other Academy graduate when in reality we need to be showing the sort of flexibility we didn't show RN DL JR etc.

If the other youngsters who aren't as good or sought after don't like it, tough.

[Mashed Potatoes]

4 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Not sure you can say Waggott has done all he can etc without knowing what we're offering. Seems likely Phillips is a generational talent who in today's market could be a £50m or £60m asset to Spurs in years to come. I wouldn't mind wagering we've offered Phillips the same terms as any other Academy graduate when in reality we need to be showing the sort of flexibility we didn't show RN DL JR etc.

If the other youngsters who aren't as good or sought after don't like it, tough.

How can we hope to match the offer of a club in the Champions League who will have a turnover running in to hundreds of millions of pounds compared with ours of £17m or so ?

[Armchair supporter supremo]

1 hour ago, unsall said:

And how would you make him sign a professional contract, it’s very difficult how the system works, obviously with all the hype as to his talent, the big boys start sniffing and the agent wants him to sign for a big club and get his nice cut.

For all the faults Waggot has you can’t keep blaming him for everything especially in this circumstance.

Just tell me how you would get him to sign instead of Spurs, Man U etc.

What you need to do is have a meeting with Waggot and tell him how to get his signature over the line…

No i agree in this instance, but it does bring to head a major flaw in relying on our youth system for the future and spending so many millions each year on the Accedmy and keeping category A status, when all the real cream of our youngsters get virtually stolen by the big clubs before even really breaking into our first team and we're just left with all the average players.

I think like most aspects of rovers these days the only way it could improve would be if we became a respectable Premiership club again. 🙏🙏

Edited July 28, 2022 by Armchair supporter supremo

[M_B]

If the club has set a salary cap/wage structure or whatever you want to call it and it's broken every time someone wants more, then the club doesn't have a salary cap. 

Whether it's set at the right level is a different argument,that's a matter for the owners, but some of the stick levelled at Waggott is just ridiculous. 

Put yourself in his position,counting the pennies, then losing players for nothing which are worth millions.

It's been 10 years and it still hasn't sunk in with some that Blackburn Rovers isn't a normal football club. 

[JHRover]

58 minutes ago, unsall said:

And how would you make him sign a professional contract, it’s very difficult how the system works, obviously with all the hype as to his talent, the big boys start sniffing and the agent wants him to sign for a big club and get his nice cut.

For all the faults Waggot has you can’t keep blaming him for everything especially in this circumstance.

Just tell me how you would get him to sign instead of Spurs, Man U etc.

What you need to do is have a meeting with Waggot and tell him how to get his signature over the line…

I wouldn't have gone to the press and said or implied that the situation was resolved. I would have been honest and said it wasn't.

Of course nobody can be forced to sign a contract. Though given the numbers who have declined them I think if you haven't already it is perhaps time to start questioning the approach of those offering them. 

[islander200]

7 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Not sure you can say Waggott has done all he can etc without knowing what we're offering. Seems likely Phillips is a generational talent who in today's market could be a £50m or £60m asset to Spurs in years to come. I wouldn't mind wagering we've offered Phillips the same terms as any other Academy graduate when in reality we need to be showing the sort of flexibility we didn't show RN DL JR etc.

If the other youngsters who aren't as good or sought after don't like it, tough.

We have heard this before "generational talent" and they havent fulfilled their potential.

If reports are correct that we are looking to sign 2 centre halves then chances are Philips will be seeing minimal action next season if at all.Granted Phillips plays in a more risky position than either but Bellingham and Elliott were playing for first team and often their better player.

Like if spurs are offering 10k we should match it?If half of Spurs first team regulars was on 10k or less per week they wouldn't be paying a prospect in line with those players.

Plus is Phillips from Blackburn?Is he a fan?

At the end of the day he moves to a big club and if as good as suggested he can be training with world class players daily working under top level managers and coaches. 

 

[Armchair supporter supremo]

22 minutes ago, neophox said:

Think Van Hecke will come back...

If he's not going to be a starter at Brighton I think he'll be back one way or another🤞🤞

Not sure a season long loan would make much sense from Brightons point of few though if his contracts up in 12 months! So that makes me think Nico is on the wind up this evening. 

[Sparks Rover]

Phillips needs a loan out, play a full season in men's football....I'm not sure where like.

[Upside Down]

2 minutes ago, M_B said:

If the club has set a salary cap/wage structure or whatever you want to call it and it's broken every time someone wants more, then the club doesn't have a salary cap. 

Whether it's set at the right level is a different argument,that's a matter for the owners, but some of the stick levelled at Waggott is just ridiculous. 

Put yourself in his position,counting the pennies, then losing players for nothing which are worth millions.

It's been 10 years and it still hasn't sunk in with some that Blackburn Rovers isn't a normal football club. 

If the club made more money then we'd be able to raise the cap and compete with other clubs. 

The absolutely pathetic amount of revenue the club generates is definitely in a large part down to Waggott. 

[Armchair supporter supremo]

3 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Phillips needs a loan out, play a full season in men's football....I'm not sure where like.

Naa i think it's best to keep our very best youngsters close to our chest! 

The lower quality training and facilities at a div 1 or 2 league club would only hinder his progress. Don't want him to end up as another Maguire in a few years! He was very highly thought of in his teens

[Mashed Potatoes]

5 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

If the club made more money then we'd be able to raise the cap and compete with other clubs. 

The absolutely pathetic amount of revenue the club generates is definitely in a large part down to Waggott. 

Why do think our revenue is "absolutely pathetic" ? The most directly comparable club to us over the last few years in terms of division, area and size of town is Preston and yet we consistently have a higher turnover than them.

[Sparks Rover]

3 minutes ago, Armchair supporter supremo said:

Naa i think it's best to keep our very best youngsters close to our chest! 

The lower quality training and facilities at a div 1 or 2 league club would only hinder his progress. Don't want him to end up as another Maguire in a few years! He was very highly thought of in his teens

I know you mean Sean

[M_B]

5 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

If the club made more money then we'd be able to raise the cap and compete with other clubs. 

The absolutely pathetic amount of revenue the club generates is definitely in a large part down to Waggott

And how long would it take to raise the £3 million they lost because Venkys wouldn't sell Rothwell? 

It's a drop in the ocean compared to potential money raised from player sales. 

I'm far from a Waggott apologist, but the stick he gets over contracts is way over the top when he must be more frustrated than anyone. 

[Upside Down]

1 minute ago, M_B said:

And how long would it take to raise the £3 million they lost because Venkys wouldn't sell Rothwell? 

It's a drop in the ocean compared to potential money raised from player sales. 

I'm far from a Waggott apologist, but the stick he gets over contracts is way over the top when he must be more frustrated than anyone. 

Granted he cannot be fully blamed for players not signing and moving on but under his tenure the club has been commercially regressing year after year. Season tickets being a prime example of this. Maybe it wouldn't add up to player sales but at the end of the day more is still more.

The fact people are even comparing us to Preston shows how far we have fallen and we are always towards the bottom of the table when it comes to revenue. 

He is running the place into the ground and needs to be gotten rid of and replaced with someone who has a rudimentary understanding of how the capitalist system works.

[yeti-dog]

19 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I wouldn't have gone to the press and said or implied that the situation was resolved. I would have been honest and said it wasn't.

Of course nobody can be forced to sign a contract. Though given the numbers who have declined them I think if you haven't already it is perhaps time to start questioning the approach of those offering them. 

So just to clarify...your clever plan to sort it would have been not to tell the press it was pretty much done & voilà 'Bob's your uncle'. 

Give Waggott his P45 and get JH Rover in now!!!