Transfer Window - COMPLETE. Where’s Gregg?

[islander200]

11 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Yes, to develop players good enough to play. Hopefully they will be. But there's a balancing act. The Club comes first and that means aiming for promotion. Not existing for the sole purpose of developing players at the expense of club progress.

Its not £5 million a year. Its less than £2 million to the club.

 

Yeah but we are still making cash signings.

I know you refute the £2.5 million on Szmodic but that is what is suggested if the clauses in the deal are met.

He will be 27 in September and 30+ by the time his contract ends.Not really a signing with future profit in mind.

Similar with Hyam(if the deal goes through) he will 27 in December.By time contract ends 30/31 so again future profit doesn't look like being taken into consideration and strengthen the squad for the here and now.

Both players coming into their prime 

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

44 minutes ago, Spankus Munky said:

I'm not getting into a debate on whether we are stronger or weaker than last year as truly until I see more than a handful of games I wont judge new signings or how they fair in relation to the previous player. Agree totally on previous management buck stops with Mowbray & Waggott on that and Venkys for not potting him sooner.

You can't complain at what a new team is doing when they have been in post mere weeks, they are fire fighting from the previous regime this window. In truth we lost 2 players we would have loved to keep around Van Hecke & Rothwell, one who was on loan so it's not like we could change that, the other went to the Prem, it is what it is! Lenihan & Nyambe who were decent enough but wanted more than they are worth IMO and the rest deadwood that had no part to play if we want to progress. Let's see how the new management team do in January if they are given the chance, that is.

Fair enough.  As Rich Sharp said in the quoted tweet earlier.  Judge the window on the quality of the new signings against those they replace.  Which again, is all about opinions 😂.

So far  for me: 

Brittain is at least as good if not better than Nyambe.

Hyam is on a parr with Lennihan and probably Van Hecke (at this stage of his career). 

No idea who Morton replaces.

I'd have both Rothwell and Khadra ahead if Szmodic - especially at the reported fee. 

 

Next 2 signings will make it or break it. 

[alexanders]

4 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Fair enough.  As Rich Sharp said in the quoted tweet earlier.  Judge the window on the quality of the new signings against those they replace.  Which again, is all about opinions 😂.

So far  for me: 

Brittain is at least as good if not better than Nyambe.

Hyam is on a parr with Lennihan and probably Van Hecke (at this stage of his career). 

No idea who Morton replaces.

I'd have both Rothwell and Khadra ahead if Szmodic - especially at the reported fee. 

 

Next 2 signings will make it or break it. 

I think Morton replaces Clarkson and Johnson in one. Upgrade.

[xtp]

21 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

We tried for Anel, Davis, SVDB, which were all in the public domain and if rumours are true JPVH - all before those 2.  

That would make them 

4th, if not 5th choice 

Or D/E list.  That's a fact.

In general, I'm quite happy with this approach to recruitment. Start with hugely ambitious targets, because sometimes they might come off. When those don't come off, because club with higher budgets bid higher or whatever, work your way down, ensuring that you're still bidding for players who are quality and can add to the team. Seems like the approach any competent DoF would adopt.

That said, I do agree with posters who've said it would have been good if they could have worked down that list faster. We could - presumably - have brought in Hyam weeks ago, which might have earned us vital extra points in two games where we were desperate for an experienced centre back.

Although (and this is nitpicky pedantics - so sorry!) I'm not sure I'd call 4th or 5th choice D/E list. The word "list" implies there is more than one player on it, so at the very least two at each tier. Personally, I'd have Anel, Davis and JPVH on my A list, for example. As in, any one of them would have been an absolutely top-notch signing.

Edited August 27, 2022 by xtp

[Sweaty Gussets]

18 minutes ago, SuperBrfc said:

It looks like we're at the 'Dack, Hedges and Markanday are like new signings' stage with some. Add to that a wishful thought that the youngsters can step up and there you have it. We're actually stronger than last season, most of the 12 that left were crap anyway, and we don't need that many signings.

The club's PR done for them, the owners and their middlemen smiling from ear to ear. See you all in January for more of the same.

That's the spirit! It's that kind of positive attitude that will keep us all warm this winter!!

[neophox]

Van Hecke deal to Sunderland may not happen:

Sunderland AFC transfer news: Brighton deal becomes 'uncertain' after Alex Neil managerial drama | Sunderland Echo

[alexanders]

BTw, Anel was at the bench for Sheff U yesterday. They have depth! 

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

35 minutes ago, Spankus Munky said:

Or "we don't replace players with better players if the one we already have is still on a long term contract that nobody is interested in signing!"

8 minutes ago, xtp said:

In general, I'm quite happy with this approach to recruitment. Start with hugely ambitious targets, because sometimes they might come off. When those don't come off, because club with higher budgets bid higher or whatever, work your way down, ensuring that you're still bidding for players who are quality and can add to the team. Seems like the approach any competent DoF would adopt.

That said, I do agree with posters who've said it would have been good if they could have worked down that list faster. We could - presumably - have brought in Hyam weeks ago, which might have earned us vital extra points in two games where we were desperate for an experienced centre back.

Although (and this is nitpicky pedantics - so sorry!) I'm not sure I'd call 4th or 5th choice D/E list. The word "list" implies there is more than one player on it, so at the very least two at each tier. Personally, I'd have Anel, Davis and JPVH on my A list, for example. As in, any one of them would have been an absolutely top-notch signing.

 

Agree with all of that.  The obvious point being that the further down the list you go, the perceived quality of the player is less. 

By not obtaining Anel or JPVH, there is an element of disappointment with anyone below them on the list - even if they may be decent!

 

[Sparks Rover]

3 minutes ago, neophox said:

Van Hecke deal to Sunderland may not happen:

Sunderland AFC transfer news: Brighton deal becomes 'uncertain' after Alex Neil managerial drama | Sunderland Echo

He probably going Stoke then.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

16 minutes ago, alexanders said:

I think Morton replaces Clarkson and Johnson in one. Upgrade.

Definitely on Clarkson.

We are missing a Johnson type midfielder though.  Someone who will put his foot in and leave it in on occasions.  Experienced in the dark arts. 

Johnson's best days were long gone, but Morton does not replace what he offered.

[Ossydave]

2 hours ago, JHRover said:

I don't think signing more than 3 is stockpiling.

We've lost 12 this summer, so bringing in a maximum of 6 to replace them is quite a scale back. If you are 'building' a squad it seems odd to me that the response to losing 12 players is to at most sign 5 and bring in 1 on loan. 

Granted it has been the view of most on here but 5-6 more is the number a lot of people have come with and one which I had in mind. 

There has been talk - and still is - of signing 2 CBs. If 2 of the remaining 3 are CBs then that leaves just 1 addition for all those other positions. I think we are short in several positions.

When JDT boldly promised a few weeks ago that we WOULD have a stronger squad come deadline day I interpreted that as meaning a bit more than a couple of CBs to address our crisis there and maybe 1 more. 

As ever I detect a drastic revision and scaling back to ambitions as the window wears on. It seems to happen every window, talk all the way through about exciting targets, healthy budgets and signings coming and then by the time the final week comes around the number drops to a few and the original names that were bandied about appear to have gone and been replaced with over the hill desperation deals like Caulker.

It just doesn't suggest a plan or ambition of any sort. Happy to be proven wrong but think JDT has had the situation spelled out to him and 3 is going to be the maximum we can hope for. And I still expect BBD to go which will be disastrous unless this lot get to spend the money and strengthen with it.

It's OK quoting how many summer departures there were, but is there even any point counting ones that had little or no use?

In terms of useful departures I would count Lenihan, Nyambe, Rothwell, Van Hecke, Khadra. None of the others impacted our season unless you want to count Johnson playing as a false 9. Nyambe has been replaced by a better player IMO. Hyam I would suggest is at least on a par with Lenihan, he may be better (injury record certainly is). Van Hecke is a miss though no doubt about it. Can we expect Carter to step up to that standard? Highly doubtful. Van Den Berg is probably a similar standard but not sure that's even an option now. The jury is out on Szmodics, for too early to dismiss him though like some have. Markanday I like the look of, again it's way too early to truly know him though. But I think he can be as effective as Khadra.

Ideal scenario is we'd get one of the vans in and another midfielder, I suspect both positions will be filled by 2 loans.

Is the squad stronger than last seasons? No (not yet anyway). I would say it's likely to be of a similar strength though and I'm convinced a better manager would have done better with last seasons squad. You never know, we may get a couple of players in Jan too let's not forget.

Our fringe players now need to be academy graduates rather than Davenports and Johnsons, and yes I'm OK with that....

[RoverDom]

45 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Something very solid there to build on for a new manager with new ideas and some backing. Hasn't materialised.

So which is it? The squad has been decimated with 12 outgoings or there is a solid foundation? Both seem contradictory to me

47 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Half the players you name as 'additions' to replace the outgoings were already here last season. Vale, Markanday, Carter etc.

If you can list magloire and Davenport as an outgoing I can have Markanday as an incoming. 

 

27 minutes ago, SuperBrfc said:

It looks like we're at the 'Dack, Hedges and Markanday are like new signings' stage with some

How is that not a factor to be considered?  Last seasons squad didn't have Dack or Marakanday available. This seasons squad does. 

[Ossydave]

Looks like Butterworth may be off somewhere, not featuring for the reserves today..  

[islander200]

35 minutes ago, SuperBrfc said:

It looks like we're at the 'Dack, Hedges and Markanday are like new signings' stage with some. Add to that a wishful thought that the youngsters can step up and there you have it. We're actually stronger than last season, most of the 12 that left were crap anyway, and we don't need that many signings.

The club's PR done for them, the owners and their middlemen smiling from ear to ear. See you all in January for more of the same.

Why can't Markanday and Hedges be included?

They didn't play hardly.Hedges has contributed more in 3 matches this season than he did between signing and the end of last season.Markanday got injured and was only available for a couple of matches. 

I personally don't feel we are stronger than last season yet but we ain't in as bad a shape as some are making out.

Last summer the same conversations were taking place.."the squad isn't as strong as the year before" "relegation battle to look forward too" yet that squad finished 7 places above the squad from the previous season 

[G Somerset Rover]

13 minutes ago, alexanders said:

BTw, Anel was at the bench for Sheff U yesterday. They have depth! 

He had a knock apparently. He in all the ‘stat’ team of the seasons etc so far - looks a hell of a player.

Edited August 27, 2022 by Gavlar Somerset Rover!

[rebelmswar]

1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

Who said the idea was that we’ll ‘gradually build up a team youngsters to adult stars’? I certainly didn’t! 

Literally every manager we've had for the past decade, the latest one included.

[Atko's Engine]

Technically 12 players have left,no argument there, their influence / involvement does not amount to any more than 7/8 players.

Brittain - replaces / improves on Nyambe.

Morton - replaces / improves on Clarkson & / or Davenport, plus provides emergency cover at CB at a push.

Hyam - expected to replace / improve on Lenihan (imagine the pelters if Lenihan had started the season for us like he has for Boro)

Szmodics - has had a slow start obviously, but eplaces role of Rothwell & / or frees Buckley to drop back. Also offers cover for Dack, who himself barely figured last year.

Caulker - does not directly replace Van Hecke, but fills the gap left behind. Provides cover for Ayala when he gets injured, affords time for Carter & Phillip's to improve.

Forward (TBC) - clearly we're in for one, presumably to replace Khadra & / or Poveda. The latter barely figured last season, the former was useful in fits and starts.

That's 6 players in. If BBD leaves I would hope / expect one or 2 replacements, preferably 1 perm & 1 loan.

Factor in that we have youngsters Phillips, Carter, Garrett, A Wharton & Vale now very much part of the senior squad (and fitting in well generally), allied to the return of Carter, Dack & Markanday and arguably the usable squad is at least as strong, if not better, than last year.

Don't forget also, all the existing players are 1 year older & wiser (without any being past it). The marked improvement in Hedges is the perfect example of that. Factor in the tactical & fitness benefits that JDT & his team bring to the table compared to TM & Venus, then overall it's possible to claim improvement.

It's not perfect; LB is still a problem, as is cover at RB. But overall I think a very strong argument can be made that by the end of this window the squad will be stronger. Of course, it may not work out like that, but I can see things moving in the right direction by blooding youth whilst improving on the first 11.

I think there's a danger folk are expecting too much from GB & JDT as a new team from a standing start in a shortened window.  Theres a clear understanding amongst us all that they inherited a small squad & limited funding due to past mismanagement, to expect all that to be rectified in 2 thirds of a window is unreasonable IMO. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by Atko's Engine

[unsall]

44 minutes ago, JHRover said:

So having been 2nd in February, top 6 until the last few games, and having got off to a flying start to this season you'd take a midtable finish now?

There's the Venky effect in plain sight.

Something very solid there to build on for a new manager with new ideas and some backing. Hasn't materialised.

Half the players you name as 'additions' to replace the outgoings were already here last season. Vale, Markanday, Carter etc.

They aren't additions, and we don't know yet if they are good enough. They are getting a look in not necessarily because they are better than those who have left, but by virtue of the fact they are cheap and still under contract and it is more cost effective than signing alternatives.

Maybe it was the ownership and management to blame for the shambolic state of recruitment and contracts that now requires this rebuild, and not Mowbray? If so what makes you think anything has changed?

Think another 3/4 decent signings will be ok, Sharp from the LT got it right, signing 6/7 new signings plus Dack, Markanday who couldn’t play last season plus Vale and the academy lads Philips, A Wharton. Garret can step up.

For some bizarre reason you do not recognise FFP and never have done, thankful the new management know we have to develop the kids and either use them or sell for decent money.

Most people know next season it’s 90% wages to turnover and 2 years after 70%, we have to comply, your strategy is sh#t or bust. Bit like Mel Morris at Derby, went drastically wrong, you would splash out, give ridiculous wage increases to existing staff and hope for the best, I’m all for getting promotion but not at all costs, need to get the right players in who are good enough to step in the side and hopefully in the next few days they will do.

[M_B]

Three proper first team players left, the rest are just fluff. 

The loan players who left were always leaving, the word loan gives it away. 

Supposedly there's a healthy budget to recruit players and the loan market is open to the new regime, as it was last season. 

"it isn't a rebuild, it's a renovation",Tomasson's own words. 

The base is there, the recruitment side is there, the coaching side and facilities are there, including a brilliant academy,and supposedly the finances are there. 

Tomasson and Broughton don't have any excuses, nor would they want them. 

Edited August 27, 2022 by M_B

[alexanders]

14 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Why can't Markanday and Hedges be included?

They didn't play hardly.Hedges has contributed more in 3 matches this season than he did between signing and the end of last season.Markanday got injured and was only available for a couple of matches. 

I personally don't feel we are stronger than last season yet but we ain't in as bad a shape as some are making out.

Last summer the same conversations were taking place.."the squad isn't as strong as the year before" "relegation battle to look forward too" yet that squad finished 7 places above the squad from the previous season 

Markanday was 15 minutes I think? The boy comes with Europa League/Champions League experience (cant remember). His stats against Bradford was very good. 
 

i said it last year when we signed him that this is the kind of signing I want us to do, young, hungry and with bags of potential. 

[Exiled_Rover]

32 minutes ago, alexanders said:

BTw, Anel was at the bench for Sheff U yesterday. They have depth! 

You saw that when they played us. The teams you expect to be competing for promotion in this league all have much stronger benches than us.

[Exiled_Rover]

21 minutes ago, Ossydave said:

Looks like Butterworth may be off somewhere, not featuring for the reserves today..  

He's not even got a squad number - they've clearly wanted him gone for a while, just can't find any suitors.

[Atko's Engine]

Armstrong starting for Southampton this lunchtime v Man U. For those hoping for a potential return on loan, I think that can be dismissed. 

[47er]

56 minutes ago, islander200 said:

I know you refute the £2.5 million on Szmodic but that is what is suggested if the clauses in the deal are met.

Boro signed Matt Clarke for the same, who did best?

[Armchair supporter supremo]

1 minute ago, Atko's Engine said:

Armstrong starting for Southampton this lunchtime v Man U. For those hoping for a potential return on loan, I think that can be dismissed. 

He started for them lazt week as well, hope they're going to finally give him a fair crack of the whip and play more to his strengths.