Transfer Window - COMPLETE. Where’s Gregg?

[Mattyblue]

39 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

You’re an intelligent guy, you know there’s more to it than that. The model is based on our budget. We can’t spend money we’re not generating with FFP looming and so the only way to compete is to focus on bringing top youth players through with cheap, rough diamonds from the lower / European leagues, developing them and then generating say £40m a season and reinvesting 50%, similar to the Brentford model which the club have referenced many times.

Do you expect them to come out and say “we’ve got a £16m budget vs £70-100m from those with parachute payments so we’ve just decided we can’t go up!”

The very best we can hope for is to be a sustainable Premier League club and that is the clubs goal. 

I don’t particularly need to hear anything either way. ‘We aim to win as many games as we can, let’s see where it takes us’ would do for me. As that is a truism, you can only win as many games as the players and manager you have are capable of, if that means mid table, then fair enough. I don’t need to have my intelligence insulted when I hear ‘Premier League!’ and I’m looking at a squad of promoted academy lads, loans and signings from Crewe and Lincoln.

I get the model that people think we have, or will have, but considering a load of talent has just walked out the door for nowt and we saw precious little of the AA money re-invested, I’ll take all this Brentford talk with a pinch of salt.

My issue with all these models is that the club never truly commits to it. We have constantly changing personnel and structures, I hear a lot of talk from fans about how we are going to do ‘x, y and z’, ‘pathways’, ‘foreign markets’, the season then comes along and in come a load of loans and fairly average third division players at the last minute, that doesn’t scream a coherent ‘model’ to me. I see re-arranging of deck chairs on the Titanic, I.e. new people, new job titles, but the same mess further up the chain where actual decisions are made, and more wishful thinking and projection from fans assuming the club is far more strategic and functional than it is in reality, than any actual structural change at the club.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Mattyblue

[Exiled_Rover]

38 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Monty?

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/20256806.first-professional-deal-just-magic-monty/

[Exiled_Rover]

1 minute ago, Mattyblue said:

I don’t particularly need to hear anything either way. ‘We aim to win as many games as we can, let’s see where it takes us’ would do for me. As that is a truism, you can only win as many games as the players and manager you have are capable of, if that means mid table, then fair enough. I don’t need to have my intelligence insulted when I hear ‘Premier League!’ and I’m looking at a squad of promoted academy lads, loans and signings from Crewe and Lincoln.

I get the model that people think we have, or will have, but considering a load of talent has just walked out the door for nowt and we saw precious little of the AA money re-invested, I’ll take all this Brentford talk with a pinch of salt.

My issue with all these models is that the club never truly commits to it. We have constantly changing personnel and structures, I hear a lot of talk from fans about how we are going to do ‘x, y and z’, ‘pathways’, ‘foreign markets’, the season then comes along and in come a load of loans and fairly average third division players at the last minute, that doesn’t scream a coherent ‘model’ to me. I see re-arranging of deck chairs on the Titanic and more wishful thinking and projection from fans assuming the club is far more strategic and functional than it is in reality, than any actual structural change at the club.

Broughton and JDT have been here what, 3 weeks? 

I really do think people are expecting miracles. If we've made no progress in another 3 weeks then I'll get on board with the complaints. Right now it's just far too early to judge.

They're no mugs, they know we need 6+ starting quality transfers.

[Mattyblue]

I’m not judging those two, at all. We’ve made no signings, we’ve played no games, so how can I judge them? Of course JDT will know we are short, half the Portugal camp was academy lads!

I’m judging the higher echelons of the club, the actual power brokers, who, in my opinion, haven’t changed one iota, and the same old problems will soon rear their heads.

But of course, hope springs eternal, and let’s see if GB is empowered to make the changes this club desperately needs.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Mattyblue

[Upside Down]

People complain about pessimism and negativity, but if I've woken up to a slap in the face every single day for the last twelve years, why would I be expecting to wake up to a kiss tomorrow?

[47er]

31 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Broughton and JDT have been here what, 3 weeks? 

I really do think people are expecting miracles. If we've made no progress in another 3 weeks then I'll get on board with the complaints. Right now it's just far too early to judge.

They're no mugs, they know we need 6+ starting quality transfers.

Dead right. Of course they know what we need. The question is "will they be allowed to sign them?"

[broadsword]

3 hours ago, yeti-dog said:

I can't argue with most of your post, you make some valid points. What I do have an issue with is some on here 'liking ' posts which state a manager we all seem to be hoping might be the start of something better will be gone by Christmas when, in effect, he's only just got here.

I still don't get that and don't think I ever will. It suggests cynicism is their default position and I find that both sad and probably unhealthy.

Probably unhealthy, agreed 👍 

I'll be honest, I'm still just glad Mowbray is gone. It's the close season, let's focus on other things. I've just found a money spider and I go on holiday soon. Its never so bad, eh? 

 

Hope the sun is shining where you are, have a great day 👍 

[Gordon Ottershaw]

21 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Broughton and JDT have been here what, 3 weeks? 

I really do think people are expecting miracles. If we've made no progress in another 3 weeks then I'll get on board with the complaints. Right now it's just far too early to judge.

They're no mugs, they know we need 6+ starting quality transfers.

I tend to  err on the side of optimism but the cold hard facts are that, with outgoing players and loanees returning to their club, there are around 150 or so league appearances from last season out of the door. Not only is that able bodies on the pitch but it's years of experience. We have brought in Ethan Walker. There is 3 weeks or so until the start of the season and only Wigan have been as inactive in the transfer market as Rovers and they are not paying their players on time at the moment. JDT and Gregg Broughton have been pretty quiet and I'm worried that they are not happy and perhaps feel that they have been mislead (just a bad feeling, absolutely no evidence) I'm yet again worried about the club and my prior optimism has evaporated. As ever the club does not communicate leaving the likes of me to fill the void with what is front of me which does not appear to be good. It's totally unacceptable and yet totally predictable.

[JHRover]

There's another solution to the alleged spectre of FFP other than just slashing costs and hoping the kids pull us through.

That solution doesn't get much mention on here or from the people running the club. I presume one of the reasons being that they have no intention of pursuing it and are incapable of doing so.

That solution involves increasing income and turnover, and in doing so give us more scope to invest. That is easier said than done, especially at a Club like Rovers, and requires planning, strategy, ability upstairs. We have none of those things here so instead we have pound-shop level operators cutting pounds and pence off running costs e.g. by doing away with a programme on matchdays and trying to squeeze an extra £30 a year out of hardcore fans.

So we need to stop with this "there's no alternative" other than the route being taken. There is. It just requires more effort and ability than those owning and running us are able to provide.

One glance at the 'local' nature of sponsorship says it all - some seem to think it is a good sign that we only seem to deal with local companies but I think it is just further evidence of a small scale operation incapable of pursuing more substantial deals.

I'd have a bet now that no other Club in this division of those not coming down from the PL will have slashed costs to the level we have in the last 12-18 months and even less will have had the benefit of probably 2x £10 million+ sales to fall back on.

It seems some are uncomfortable with the alternative possibility here which is that FFP is not the big issue, and that the whim of our lunatic owners is just as important if not more so.

I've said it before and will keep on saying it because I strongly believe it is key to this whole operation that the only way these owners will invest proper cash for players is if someone flies out to India, sits down with the Desai bunch and persuades them to do it. The reason the cash has dried up is purely because since 2019 nobody has had the ability to go to India and do this. So we are back into 2015-17 mode now - cutbacks, sales, scaled down budget. We know how it ended last time and I'm a great believer in learning lessons from the recent past rather than ignoring it and hoping all will be fine.

[jim mk2]

45 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Broughton and JDT have been here what, 3 weeks? 

I really do think people are expecting miracles. If we've made no progress in another 3 weeks then I'll get on board with the complaints. Right now it's just far too early to judge.

They're no mugs, they know we need 6+ starting quality transfers.

 

Doesn't bode well though, does it? You'd have expected the new manager to have a mind some players he'd like, and that one of two might be on their way by now.  

[arbitro]

If Mowbray was still here and the stagnant transfer business was as it is there would be an absolute outcry from the vast majority of posters. Tommason has come in and it's a clean slate so he is being, rightly so, cut some slack. The real problem during transfer windows hasn't always been the managers fault. Invariably it's down to the convoluted, onerous way these people operate and the ridiculously slow process of getting approval to spend.

I don't know what promises were made to the new management team about budgets but from the outside the elephant is still well and truly in the room.

[AllRoverAsia]

1 minute ago, arbitro said:

If Mowbray was still here and the stagnant transfer business was as it is there would be an absolute outcry from the vast majority of posters. Tommason has come in and it's a clean slate so he is being, rightly so, cut some slack. The real problem during transfer windows hasn't always been the managers fault. Invariably it's down to the convoluted, onerous way these people operate and the ridiculously slow process of getting approval to spend.

I don't know what promises were made to the new management team about budgets but from the outside the elephant is still well and truly in the room.

And it's doing a Rip Van Winkle impression in the corner. Very well, I may add.

[G Somerset Rover]

18 minutes ago, 47er said:

Dead right. Of course they know what we need. The question is "will they be allowed to sign them?"

Yep, or can we act quickly enough. The answer to the latter under this regime, has largely always been 'no'. 

The proof will be in the pudding, but you've gotta say we surely need to bring in a couple over the next week or so otherwise alarm bells will well and truly be ringing.

[bazza]

Can GB complain to the owners and obtain a change in the way things are done? Or will he be slapped down for his cheek?

[47er]

24 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Yep, or can we act quickly enough. The answer to the latter under this regime, has largely always been 'no'. 

The proof will be in the pudding, but you've gotta say we surely need to bring in a couple over the next week or so otherwise alarm bells will well and truly be ringing.

Prepare to be called negative. You might even qualify as Drama Queen material!

[Mattyblue]

3 minutes ago, 47er said:

Prepare to be called negative. You might even qualify as Drama Queen material!

Is he a ‘Trembler’ though?

[Admiral Nelsen]

40 minutes ago, JHRover said:

There's another solution to the alleged spectre of FFP other than just slashing costs and hoping the kids pull us through.

That solution doesn't get much mention on here or from the people running the club. I presume one of the reasons being that they have no intention of pursuing it and are incapable of doing so.

That solution involves increasing income and turnover, and in doing so give us more scope to invest. That is easier said than done, especially at a Club like Rovers, and requires planning, strategy, ability upstairs. We have none of those things here so instead we have pound-shop level operators cutting pounds and pence off running costs e.g. by doing away with a programme on matchdays and trying to squeeze an extra £30 a year out of hardcore fans.

So we need to stop with this "there's no alternative" other than the route being taken. There is. It just requires more effort and ability than those owning and running us are able to provide.

One glance at the 'local' nature of sponsorship says it all - some seem to think it is a good sign that we only seem to deal with local companies but I think it is just further evidence of a small scale operation incapable of pursuing more substantial deals.

I'd have a bet now that no other Club in this division of those not coming down from the PL will have slashed costs to the level we have in the last 12-18 months and even less will have had the benefit of probably 2x £10 million+ sales to fall back on.

It seems some are uncomfortable with the alternative possibility here which is that FFP is not the big issue, and that the whim of our lunatic owners is just as important if not more so.

I've said it before and will keep on saying it because I strongly believe it is key to this whole operation that the only way these owners will invest proper cash for players is if someone flies out to India, sits down with the Desai bunch and persuades them to do it. The reason the cash has dried up is purely because since 2019 nobody has had the ability to go to India and do this. So we are back into 2015-17 mode now - cutbacks, sales, scaled down budget. We know how it ended last time and I'm a great believer in learning lessons from the recent past rather than ignoring it and hoping all will be fine.

 

I agree with your assessment of our setup at Ewood, and that commercially we've seemed second rate for some time.

That said, I think we also need to be realistic about what can be achieved to the balance sheet by ticket sales, sponsorship and the like. Our entire commercial revenue in the last accounts I believe was just shy of £5million. A significant increase on that would of course be welcome, but we have to accept there is a ceiling to what this means in terms of FPP and the running of the club.

 

Player trading, buying low and selling high, is the only game in town (bar promotion) when it comes raising the revenue of the club enough that we can spend substantially more whilst staying compliant with FPP. Obviously this means a bit of spending to accumulate, and protecting assets much better than we have done over the last few years. Slashing costs with no other strategy is a certain recipe for decline, but at there's no point pretending that FPP is an 'alleged spectre' when it's clearly not, or that we could transform our finances with a bit more effort and imagination on the commercial side. 

[Dreams of 1995]

35 minutes ago, JHRover said:

There's another solution to the alleged spectre of FFP other than just slashing costs and hoping the kids pull us through.

That solution doesn't get much mention on here or from the people running the club. I presume one of the reasons being that they have no intention of pursuing it and are incapable of doing so.

That solution involves increasing income and turnover, and in doing so give us more scope to invest. That is easier said than done, especially at a Club like Rovers, and requires planning, strategy, ability upstairs. We have none of those things here so instead we have pound-shop level operators cutting pounds and pence off running costs e.g. by doing away with a programme on matchdays and trying to squeeze an extra £30 a year out of hardcore fans.

So we need to stop with this "there's no alternative" other than the route being taken. There is. It just requires more effort and ability than those owning and running us are able to provide.

One glance at the 'local' nature of sponsorship says it all - some seem to think it is a good sign that we only seem to deal with local companies but I think it is just further evidence of a small scale operation incapable of pursuing more substantial deals.

I'd have a bet now that no other Club in this division of those not coming down from the PL will have slashed costs to the level we have in the last 12-18 months and even less will have had the benefit of probably 2x £10 million+ sales to fall back on.

It seems some are uncomfortable with the alternative possibility here which is that FFP is not the big issue, and that the whim of our lunatic owners is just as important if not more so.

I've said it before and will keep on saying it because I strongly believe it is key to this whole operation that the only way these owners will invest proper cash for players is if someone flies out to India, sits down with the Desai bunch and persuades them to do it. The reason the cash has dried up is purely because since 2019 nobody has had the ability to go to India and do this. So we are back into 2015-17 mode now - cutbacks, sales, scaled down budget. We know how it ended last time and I'm a great believer in learning lessons from the recent past rather than ignoring it and hoping all will be fine.

JH I don’t think anybody doubts that the Venkys are responsible for where we are but why do you keep pretending like FFP is not a big issue

We regularly over spend, even after this cost cutting. Other clubs are just better ran economically 

Say we wanted to increase our wage budget by £10,000 p/wk, already across the first team, that equates to £520,000 per year 

So for every £10k we need another half a million. That’s not including bonuses and fees that have become part and parcel of the modern football contract 

So if you think you can increase turnover of a company by half a million in 12 months then I would suggest you are in the wrong job. That’s quite the sum.

In the spirit of fairness I will say this is firmly at the doorstep of Venkys. If we say we have lost about 5,000 regular season ticket holders since they have come, at an average of £300 quid a ticket, that’s £1.5m they have lost us in yearly turnover. Or £30k a week. 
 

I genuinely do not believe we will get them 5,000 back unless the Venkys sell or we reach the premier league. Regardless of how much marketing or pricing initiatives they will not come back until we reach the dizzying heights of the Prem but I am all ears on how you plan to do it 

[Waggy76]

Venkys leaving is the best game in Town ...

[Mattyblue]

3 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

 

In the spirit of fairness I will say this is firmly at the doorstep of Venkys. If we say we have lost about 5,000 regular season ticket holders since they have come, at an average of £300 quid a ticket, that’s £1.5m they have lost us in yearly turnover. Or £30k a week. 

*10,000

[Gordon Ottershaw]

6 minutes ago, Waggy76 said:

Venkys leaving is the best game in Town ...

What if they don't take their debt with them? This is the horrendous position we find ourselves in.

[dallydally]

The Championship league table makes good reading! Rovers 2nd and Burnley 5th. Make the most of it!!

[Dreams of 1995]

13 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

*10,000

A portion of them are because of the relegation, which I suppose is also the fault of Venkys

I think around 5,000 would come back immediately if they sold the club

[broadsword]

If they go then it would surely mean admin. 

 

Enormous debt, dwindling income, were a basket case. John Harvey Jones would have an epi. I can only see things getting worse the longer they remain 

[rigger]

11 hours ago, neophox said:

Malmö wanted him to stay. He wanted a new challenge. England.

He left Malmo months before he came to the Rovers.