Transfer Window - COMPLETE. Where’s Gregg?

[Hi Mack]

We do not have the money to replace Nyambe, Lenihan or Rothwells quality. 
 

Again we have to hope we get lucky. They have all gone for free. We will be lucky to have £3m+ available for transfer fees. Loans certainly have their place in this squad but they cannot be relied on.

The silence is deafening at the minute.

[Miller11]

There have been more links for outgoings than incomings so far. And the silence from Tomasson and Broughton after their initial interviews is deafening.

Apparently only us, Blackpool and Wigan are the Championship clubs yet to make signings. And they haven’t had an exodus to deal with like us. We really need to crack on.

[RoversClitheroe]

3 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

There have been more links for outgoings than incomings so far. And the silence from Tomasson and Broughton after their initial interviews is deafening.

Apparently only us, Blackpool and Wigan are the Championship clubs yet to make signings. And they haven’t had an exodus to deal with like us. We really need to crack on.

We need another GB interview, all the early optimism is fizzling out.

[K-Hod]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

We don't know what Nyambe and Lenihan wanted wage wise. 

We know that we got the same wage bill as last season but more room for wages, So Cantwell could be affordable. 

Cantwell drives a Lambo, I think it’s safe to assume he’s on far more than any of our squad.

[Admiral Nelsen]

8 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Rubbish, he's not been coached you can tell, he's not done repetition getting to the byline and pulling it back etc....the guy is a top notch full back and to say he can't learn is not right..it most certainly is the fault of our coaching department. 

If I could be arsed I could find at least 10 goals which he's set up so to say he can't do it is bollards

 

You might struggle with that one - he's set up 7 in his senior career. The guy is a top notch defender, who I wish we were keeping, but his output going forward has been dismal.

 

I don't see what's so hard to accept about the idea that Nyambe might just find it hard to improve that side of his game. Almost all players at this level are flawed in one way or another, or else they don't stay here for very long. Why do we hold other players responsible for their weaknesses but when it comes to Nyambe's work in the final third, that's all down to poor coaching?

[Sparks Rover]

22 minutes ago, Hi Mack said:

We do not have the money to replace Nyambe, Lenihan or Rothwells quality. 
 

Again we have to hope we get lucky. They have all gone for free. We will be lucky to have £3m+ available for transfer fees. Loans certainly have their place in this squad but they cannot be relied on.

The silence is deafening at the minute.

Ryan Hardie we should go for at Plymouth, good player the lad.

[Sparks Rover]

1 minute ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

You might struggle with that one - he's set up 7 in his senior career. The guy is a top notch defender, who I wish we were keeping, but his output going forward has been dismal.

 

I don't see what's so hard to accept about the idea that Nyambe might just find it hard to improve that side of his game. Almost all players at this level are flawed in one way or another, or else they don't stay here for very long. Why do we hold other players responsible for their weaknesses but when it comes to Nyambe's work in the final third, that's all down to poor coaching?

Sorry don't agree, I know coaches who would improve that for him. Our coaching set up has been abysmal for a decade

Edited July 7, 2022 by Sparks Rover

[martonrover]

15 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

We need another GB interview, all the early optimism is fizzling out.

Amidst all the other factors at play, Broughton is a guy who has been chucked in at the deep end to learn a completely new role. 
That would be hard enough at an efficiently operating club.

Just now, this is not looking too good.

[47er]

1 hour ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

That is certainly how I "feel"...but my guess is that they wouldn't sign because they knew for some time -from agents etc- that better deals were available from other clubs.

 

So we should have sold? No point in just allowing contracts to run down.

[Eddie]

Patience, as usual, is in short supply on this MB.

Yes, we've lost some players. Yes, some clubs have made moves. But there are still plenty of deals that will be done and plenty of time for us to take part in them. 

No need to be too desperate now and judge things every 6 hours. 

[Tugayisgod]

Who needs Nyambe anyway when you’ve got Hayden Carter!

 

[Hi Mack]

4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Patience, as usual, is in short supply on this MB.

Yes, we've lost some players. Yes, some clubs have made moves. But there are still plenty of deals that will be done and plenty of time for us to take part in them. 

No need to be too desperate now and judge things every 6 hours. 

Waiting till the last week to do deals helps no one though. The players need to integrate. That’s why we start so slow. We basically use the first half a dozen games as preseason friendlies.

You have to understand the frustration of losing your better players and not have a whisper regarding replacements. 
 

its 3 weeks until kick off!! 3 weeks!!!

[BigBar]

It is staggering when you think about it the money being spent and available in the Premier League. Regular 50-100mil transfers and wages of 50-400k a week. You go one division down and majority of clubs are looking for freebies and scrambling to cobble together 500k and pay 10-20k a week wages. The gulf is absolutely massive. I get the TV rights and the pandemic etc but you would think it wouldn't be abnormal for championship clubs to regularly spend 5mil on transfer and be able to have a 5-10 players in the squad on 20k. The money seems reflective of non league finances at times. Crazy.

[SuperBrfc]

That's Nyambe, Lenihan and Giles that have been snapped up by Boro. We had a poster claim that the players were being advised to wait for West Brom to come in for them. That story may well have some truth to it, with only the club named being wrong.

I'd imagine there's somebody in the North East right now who is delighted for Darragh and Ryan on getting their "big moves", whilst also being pleased that the owners have screwed up and lost out.

I'm keeping a look out for a cheap, crap player that Boro are willing to loan out. Whoever he is, the tossers above JDT and Broughton will take him in return. Hopefully, they will be told to get stuffed by the abovementioned.

[rigger]

5 minutes ago, Hi Mack said:

Waiting till the last week to do deals helps no one though. The players need to integrate. That’s why we start so slow. We basically use the first half a dozen games as preseason friendlies.

You have to understand the frustration of losing your better players and not have a whisper regarding replacements. 
 

its 3 weeks until kick off!! 3 weeks!!!

I know this might go against the grain, but lets wait and see how the results go when the season actually starts.

[PeteJD13]

I have serious reservations about the ability and will of some at the club to actually get deals over the time and spend money, i don't buy this narrative that there is some healthy budget, there will be more players like Cantwell and Ahmedhodzic that we will get linked with but won't get over the line, then it'll be back to the usual plugging the gaps with PL reject loans. The narrative will be look we tried, we cannot compete with massive clubs like Sheffield United ( a myth already being pushed by some on FB ). But we are all expected to back the team with season tickets, or as i saw on twitter shirts yesterday, if you don't buy a shirt you aren't a real fan, comments made by fans that don't actually attend!

Edited July 7, 2022 by PeteJD13

[Hi Mack]

9 minutes ago, rigger said:

I know this might go against the grain, but lets wait and see how the results go when the season actually starts.

Absolutely, but the thought of going in to those games with our current squad send shivers down my spine. I can’t see many others disagreeing with that?

[Ghost7]

I'm happy to support the club's youth and I want to see them given a chance in the first team but using it as justification to allow the club to continue to be a poorly run business (which is what some fans are now doing) and not see a return on the majority of their investments to allow for future investment isn't something I can be positive about. We need a lot of transfers in quickly. We can't use youth players to cover up the owner's previously incompetent setup (yes Waggot that means you) and we can't get ourselves in this situation ever again, not if they want to see the club make any significant progression; the model as it stands isn't sustainable.

[Leonard Venkhater]

49 minutes ago, 47er said:

So we should have sold? No point in just allowing contracts to run down.

Oh yes, but who would pay a fee, when they knew the contracts were running down. I guess the question is timing. They should have sold 15 months ago...

[Armchair supporter supremo]

8 minutes ago, Hi Mack said:

Absolutely, but the thought of going in to those games with our current squad send shivers down my spine. I can’t see many others disagreeing with that?

Personally just think we need to get the backline sorted before the first game of the season. Every other area of the team can wait  because I'm not expecting much this, but obviously don't want to be in a relegation scrap, which is where we'll likely be until we have a solid backline. 

 

Need to decide if Ayala is staying or going and need a solid dominant cb and rb regardles. 

[Ossydave]

1 hour ago, RoversClitheroe said:

We need another GB interview, all the early optimism is fizzling out.

I was thinking this earlier, an update of some kind.  Hopefully an honest, transparent one.

I wonder if JDT will be giving a presser ahead of Saturdays game or if they won't bother as it's only a friendly.

I miss him.

[OsloRover]

Long post warning..

I feel that many posters are not aware of the actual financial reality of the club.

The club must survive first and foremost, hence the focus on being a sustainable operation. In the short term, as long as Venkys are willing to fund the club's losses, being sustainable means to comply with the championship's profitability and sustainability rules, often called FFP.

To comply with said rules, clubs must run at a loss of no more than £45 million over any 3-year period. As an aside, be aware that a season or two in the PL during this period will dramatically increase this figure, giving clubs relegated from the PL another huge advantage ON TOP OF their parachute payments (which are counted as income) if they have owners with big wallets.

Looking at Rovers' accounts from the 20/21 season we had at the time a loss of approx £46.750.000 over 3 years, which is over the FFP limit. We can deduct spending for the academy, ladies team etc from this figure, which means we were within our £45m limit by some margin. There was also probably a significant covid-related deduction for which I don't know the details, maybe enough to make us compliant for 2020 but seemingly not for 2021. Hence we sold the training centre, which raised a £13m profit which is included in the losses mentioned. Obviously we can only sell the training centre once, so it's not really sustainable.

Season ended     2021           2020            2019

Losses                 6.6m           22m            18.2m

3Y FFP losses      46.75m        57m            38.8m 

When the 2022 accounts are filed the 2019 numbers are no longer relevant for FFP, so those 18.2m losses are wiped clean and replaced with whatever loss we have for 2022. The maximum loss for 2022 we can live with within FFP would be (45-22-6.6) = 16.4m. The Armstrong sale, the return of matchday crowds, and the siginficant cull of senior players on big wages last summer should all help the 2022 accounts so I don't expect any problems there.

Now this is where it gets interesting. 2022 accounting is done (although not published), so we have to focus on 2023 where we can wipe the terrible 2020 loss of 22m away, to be replaced with the 2023 accounts. What we know is that we have cleared around 70k/week off the wage budget with the players that have left this summer. We also expect a big sale with Brereton going. Unless we sign a lot of expensive players we could potentially be looking at actually turning a profit this year (we won't, because we'll sign players). Keep in mind that one good financial year helps the club comply with FFP for 3 years, not just one, and that money paid towards transfers are spread out over the length of the signed player's contract. As long as Venkys are happy to provide the maximum amount of financial backing that they can (and they have until now, make no mistake about it), we should indeed be looking at, in GB's words, "a healthy budget".

This is surely one reason to be optimistic. But the signings need to be right, we can not afford to take big losses on players. So I'd rather the club takes its sweet time getting recruitment right. We might not have an Armstrong or a Brereton to sell next year and we could easily be in the brown stuff again in a couple of years since our baseline operations are far from sustainable.

Note that if Venkys should withdraw their funding entirely, FFP requirements would go from a £45mill loss to a £15mill loss, and we would have to make drastic cuts across the board and probably not be able to sustain a championship level operation. I can't see this happening though as they would need to achieve PL status to have any hope of recouping their expenses.

[Guest]

Just now, OsloRover said:

Long post warning..

I feel that many posters are not aware of the actual financial reality of the club.

The club must survive first and foremost, hence the focus on being a sustainable operation. In the short term, as long as Venkys are willing to fund the club's losses, being sustainable means to comply with the championship's profitability and sustainability rules, often called FFP.

To comply with said rules, clubs must run at a loss of no more than £45 million over any 3-year period. As an aside, be aware that a season or two in the PL during this period will dramatically increase this figure, giving clubs relegated from the PL another huge advantage ON TOP OF their parachute payments (which are counted as income) if they have owners with big wallets.

Looking at Rovers' accounts from the 20/21 season we had at the time a loss of approx £46.750.000 over 3 years, which is over the FFP limit. We can deduct spending for the academy, ladies team etc from this figure, which means we were within our £45m limit by some margin. There was also probably a significant covid-related deduction for which I don't know the details, maybe enough to make us compliant for 2020 but seemingly not for 2021. Hence we sold the training centre, which raised a £13m profit which is included in the losses mentioned. Obviously we can only sell the training centre once, so it's not really sustainable.

Season ended     2021           2020            2019

Losses                 6.6m           22m            18.2m

3Y FFP losses      46.75m        57m            38.8m 

When the 2022 accounts are filed the 2019 numbers are no longer relevant for FFP, so those 18.2m losses are wiped clean and replaced with whatever loss we have for 2022. The maximum loss for 2022 we can live with within FFP would be (45-22-6.6) = 16.4m. The Armstrong sale, the return of matchday crowds, and the siginficant cull of senior players on big wages last summer should all help the 2022 accounts so I don't expect any problems there.

Now this is where it gets interesting. 2022 accounting is done (although not published), so we have to focus on 2023 where we can wipe the terrible 2020 loss of 22m away, to be replaced with the 2023 accounts. What we know is that we have cleared around 70k/week off the wage budget with the players that have left this summer. We also expect a big sale with Brereton going. Unless we sign a lot of expensive players we could potentially be looking at actually turning a profit this year (we won't, because we'll sign players). Keep in mind that one good financial year helps the club comply with FFP for 3 years, not just one, and that money paid towards transfers are spread out over the length of the signed player's contract. As long as Venkys are happy to provide the maximum amount of financial backing that they can (and they have until now, make no mistake about it), we should indeed be looking at, in GB's words, "a healthy budget".

This is surely one reason to be optimistic. But the signings need to be right, we can not afford to take big losses on players. So I'd rather the club takes its sweet time getting recruitment right. We might not have an Armstrong or a Brereton to sell next year and we could easily be in the brown stuff again in a couple of years since our baseline operations are far from sustainable.

Note that if Venkys should withdraw their funding entirely, FFP requirements would go from a £45mill loss to a £15mill loss, and we would have to make drastic cuts across the board and probably not be able to sustain a championship level operation. I can't see this happening though as they would need to achieve PL status to have any hope of recouping their expenses.

Informative post thank you

[47er]

52 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Patience, as usual, is in short supply on this MB.

Yes, we've lost some players. Yes, some clubs have made moves. But there are still plenty of deals that will be done and plenty of time for us to take part in them. 

No need to be too desperate now and judge things every 6 hours. 

Patience may be in short supply but there's no shortage of complacency on this MB

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

Rubbish, he's not been coached you can tell, he's not done repetition getting to the byline and pulling it back etc....the guy is a top notch full back and to say he can't learn is not right..it most certainly is the fault of our coaching department. 

If I could be arsed I could find at least 10 goals which he's set up so to say he can't do it is bollards

Learning where and when to cross the ball and the technical skills to get the ball to where you want it to go are skills that should have been drilled into the player by now. Why that never happened is a mystery to me.