Transfer Window - COMPLETE. Where’s Gregg?

[bluebruce]

32 minutes ago, tomphil said:

How in the name of god is 'Not really thought that through have you' in anyway a seriously provocative post ?

Grow up and grow a pair !

Your 'facts' are a one off season in which the ownership granted a championship budget. The room in that budget created by a few outgoings and a pay decrease through relegation clauses on a few top earners.  That allowed a couple of million spent and a big squad to have a real go.

How long do you think that would have lasted if we hadn't gone up ?

A budget based soley on our income in this league wouldn't sustain championship football.  A few years in league one would see a budget and crowds in line with that and that wouldn't be top 6 in our case.

There, explained it for you but if you'd thought it through first time......

Wow. Yeh really disproving the notion that you're the one being a dick here eh?

Firstly I didn't say it was 'seriously' provocative, I said it was provocative. Which it is, because it's a demeaning reply rather than actually giving your counterpoint. It's not how polite discussion works on a messageboard. I responded in kind, and the fact it got you wound up enough to start calling me a dick only shows that's not how you start a discussion unless you want it to devolve. Don't give it if you can't take it Tomphil.

Anyway you finally 'explained it' but you seem confused. You start by going on about budget, which wasn't really the discussion, as I never mentioned what our budget was in League One, or how well we did, only what our gates were. You had initially said that if it came down to gate money dictating budget, we would be mid-table in League One. So I took all those other factors away that you're adding in now, and kept to your own point of gates, and showed we had the third best in League One. So no, if it came down to purely gate money dictating budget, we would have the third best budget in League One, based on our last stint. 7th based on last season's crowds in that league which have since gone up, still firmly in the top third rather than squarely in the middle. This also ignores that there were also 9 teams in the Championship this season who had worse crowds.

I see your version of me not thinking it through involved you tossing in unrelated matters, future speculated decline based on being in and staying down in a league we aren't even in yet, and other budgetary factors to your initial point, as well as ignoring other clubs' potential for decline under the same model, so I can see why you confused yourself there. Now I'm not sure what's gotten into you today because you're not usually like this, but you should probably go and do something relaxing as the lack of transfers seems to have put you on edge.

Edited July 11, 2022 by bluebruce

[RevidgeBlue]

24 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

west ham now interested in brereton diaz,ffs broughton,pick up the phone and start the auction,these premier league idiots spend stupid amounts of money

Be careful what you wish for.

Incredibly dangerous wishing BBD away at the moment imo.

I want some signings in as much as the next man but if we're struggling to attract people then replacing him with some dolloper or maybe even A N OTHER loanee is the last thing we need imo.

[Torgeir]

55 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

 

I'd question the drive of anybody who, at 31, just spent two seasons in China.

He’s captain for Australia who have a World Cup coming up. Think he’ll be hugely motivated. 

[jim mk2]

Dipping in this thread at the end of each day hoping for some good news and then being disappointed every time is getting depressing

Something's not right here - we've a new manager who presumably was told he'd be given some money to spend, There's not many managers who'd take a job without such an assurance - unless they were desperate

So what's going on? 

 

 

[simongarnerisgod]

8 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Be careful what you wish for.

Incredibly dangerous wishing BBD away at the moment imo.

I want some signings in as much as the next man but if we're struggling to attract people then replacing him with some dolloper or maybe even A N OTHER loanee is the last thing we need imo.

if west ham or leeds want to spend stupid amounts on him(west ham reportedly rate him in the 20 million class) then we should take it quickly,he`ll be gone for free next season

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I know most will choose not to believe it but I am firmly of the belief there was a also a very substantial budget available in January as well in addition to the very well publicised bonuses which for some unknown reason Mowbray and Waggott decided not to utilise.

It doesn't seem likely to me that we would appoint a new manager and not afford him at least the same funding Mowbray had. Broughton also claimed there was a "healthy" budget shortly after arriving and again, to me, he'd have nothing whatsoever to gain from lying about that just 2-3 days into the job. He'd be making a rod for his own back.

Something seems to be going horribly wrong somewhere along the line though. I always put it down to Venus being in charge of negotiations and then Mowbray topping it off with his "You'll have to work your way into the side and dislodge Corry and Benno" type spiel.

 

I believe we have a decent budget for signings.  Possibly several million. 

I don't believe that our wage structure or whatever you want to call it - is sufficient to entice anybody decent.  

That's the problem. 

 

[tomphil]

30 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Wow. Yeh really disproving the notion that you're the one being a dick here eh?

Firstly I didn't say it was 'seriously' provocative, I said it was provocative. Which it is, because it's a demeaning reply rather than actually giving your counterpoint. It's not how polite discussion works on a messageboard. I responded in kind, and the fact it got you wound up enough to start calling me a dick only shows that's not how you start a discussion unless you want it to devolve. Don't give it if you can't take it Tomphil.

Anyway you finally 'explained it' but you seem confused. You start by going on about budget, which wasn't really the discussion, as I never mentioned what our budget was in League One, or how well we did, only what our gates were. You had initially said that if it came down to gate money dictating budget, we would be mid-table in League One. So I took all those other factors away that you're adding in now, and kept to your own point of gates, and showed we had the third best in League One. So no, if it came down to purely gate money dictating budget, we would have the third best budget in League One, based on our last stint. 7th based on last season's crowds in that league which have since gone up, still firmly in the top third rather than squarely in the middle. This also ignores that there were also 9 teams in the Championship this season who had worse crowds.

I see your version of me not thinking it through involved you tossing in unrelated matters, future speculated decline based on being in and staying down in a league we aren't even in yet, and other budgetary factors to your initial point, as well as ignoring other clubs' potential for decline under the same model, so I can see why you confused yourself there. Now I'm not sure what's gotten into you today because you're not usually like this, but you should probably go and do something relaxing as the lack of transfers seems to have put you on edge.

Most of this reply is nothing but empty waffle trying to cover the fact it was your chain that got yanked by a harmless comment.

If ever there was a definition of a messageboard glass chin you've displayed it here, likewise you aren't normally so touchy.  So we'll put it down to the hot weather and move on.

My original point about gate money and budget stands though. As for lack of transfers i think you'll find iv'e been telling people all along we are going seriously on our own youth this time so nothing much will happen at all.

Low cost/high risk is this seasons theme i'm afraid.

[Armchair supporter supremo]

32 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Dipping in this thread at the end of each day hoping for some good news and then being disappointed every time is getting depressing

Something's not right here - we've a new manager who presumably was told he'd be given some money to spend, There's not many managers who'd take a job without such an assurance - unless they were desperate

So what's going on? 

 

 

Strangely it's more the lack of links to players than the lack of signings thats unusual. 

I know the club likes to try and get things done under the radar these days... If that is currently the case then our recruitment team should be working for Mi5 not rovers. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Armchair supporter supremo

[Armchair supporter supremo]

I also get the feeling that a few of the club leaks have been plugged up in recent months and the likes of Nixon don't have the connections here that they once had. 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Armchair supporter supremo

[simongarnerisgod]

5 minutes ago, goozburger said:

Regarding Brereton, we have to sell him. He's not signing a contact renewal. It's been on the table since Christmas, hasn't it? I suspect suitors are keeping their nerves and waiting until the deadline draws closer, at which point they could probably shave a good few million off the selling price. We need one of them to blink, quickly, and start a bidding war.

personally i think he`s a flaky player and you are never sure if brereton and not diaz is going to show up,i would`nt take the risk of him reverting back to uselessness and his value plummeting,he`s very much a confidence player

[OldEwoodBlue]

44 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Be careful what you wish for.

Incredibly dangerous wishing BBD away at the moment imo.

I want some signings in as much as the next man but if we're struggling to attract people then replacing him with some dolloper or maybe even A N OTHER loanee is the last thing we need imo.

We already have Gally so we won't need another dolloper. Vale is going to get promoted to chief goal scorer ready to sell next summer.

Owners vision. Don't shoot the messenger.

[G Somerset Rover]

1 hour ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

No signings as expected.

Same time tomorrow then.

I’m on holiday until the weekend. I can pretty much guarantee I’ll miss the square route of bugger all.

The ‘urgency’ to ever get things done at our club is beyond alarming.

[tomphil]

50 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Dipping in this thread at the end of each day hoping for some good news and then being disappointed every time is getting depressing

Something's not right here - we've a new manager who presumably was told he'd be given some money to spend, There's not many managers who'd take a job without such an assurance - unless they were desperate

So what's going on? 

 

 

Wouldn't be surprised if it was all down to the head honchos being on their summer hols and hanging out the do not disturb signs.

We've heard that in the past, GB might well be finding out just how this circus is run.

[simongarnerisgod]

3 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Wouldn't be surprised if it was all down to the head honchos being on their summer hols and hanging out the do not disturb signs.

We've heard that in the past, GB might well be finding out just how this circus is run.

if thats the case then broughton and jdt will soon be walking out,jdt especially is`nt an idiot (coyle) or a pension topper upper (mowbray)

[G Somerset Rover]

7 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

if thats the case then broughton and jdt will soon be walking out,jdt especially is`nt an idiot (coyle) or a pension topper upper (mowbray)

Indeed. It’s going to be infuriating should that happen as the bloke is such a breath of fresh air.

[booth]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Is it thanks to FFP? They wouldn't spend £2m on the pitch which was an exempt expense.

Can they take that £2m pitch and sell it on for 8 times more than they spent?

Venkys see players as investments, and beyond that haven’t a clue about much else, it’s not difficult to see that. 

Im genuinely baffled why people can’t see how FFP affects transfers.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

19 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Wouldn't be surprised if it was all down to the head honchos being on their summer hols and hanging out the do not disturb signs.

We've heard that in the past, GB might well be finding out just how this circus is run.

Right from the start Broughton said we had a good transfer budget BUT within our current wage structure. I would imagine there is a certain amount of brinkmanship going on with wages - it will be a case of who blinks first - the club or the agents. In the meantime - any club with a bigger wage budget is likely to outbid us - but I think most Championship clubs (excl parachute payment clubs) have similar constraints to us. Even those with parachute payments are running a fairly high risk strategy as they get towards the end of them - we are a good example of how it can all go wrong quickly.

[booth]

1 hour ago, simongarnerisgod said:

west ham now interested in brereton diaz,ffs broughton,pick up the phone and start the auction,these premier league idiots spend stupid amounts of money

They need to sell him for the maximum amount and give the cash to JDT to rebuild the team. 

[islander200]

6 minutes ago, booth said:

Can they take that £2m pitch and sell it on for 8 times more than they spent?

Venkys see players as investments, and beyond that haven’t a clue about much else, it’s not difficult to see that. 

Im genuinely baffled why people can’t see how FFP affects transfers.

They never sell players or get full market value for them though.

Like letting Armstrong run his contract down to a year.Similar with Brererton.The 3 that have gone on a free this summer 250k outlay on Rothwell, they all could have been sold last summer for some profit. 

Turning down the 15 million bid from West Brom for Dack the January Darren Moore was in charge of them.

Rhodes when he was here wanted out for a long time, bigger bids were turned down than what we got for him in the end.  

Mowbray was here 5 year...2 players of any value sold in that time.There was bound to have been other interest in some of our players, Lenihen to Sheffield United being one. 

They definitely don't look after their investments that's for sure.

 

 

[tomphil]

32 minutes ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

Right from the start Broughton said we had a good transfer budget BUT within our current wage structure. I would imagine there is a certain amount of brinkmanship going on with wages - it will be a case of who blinks first - the club or the agents. In the meantime - any club with a bigger wage budget is likely to outbid us - but I think most Championship clubs (excl parachute payment clubs) have similar constraints to us. Even those with parachute payments are running a fairly high risk strategy as they get towards the end of them - we are a good example of how it can all go wrong quickly.

That's where i think the owners come into it.

Getting no joy with the players we are after and might need to ask if they can stretch a bit more.  Then again if we are primarily in the loan market that often moves late.  Loan fees and wage contributions might come down in asking price as the season approaches.  Others come available later on that might not be right now so some clubs hang back a bit to see what becomes doable.

I still think the ultimate say so for anything over 500k or a few grand a week will still need the big cheeses signing it off despite the new structure.

Edited July 11, 2022 by tomphil

[Butty]

8 minutes ago, islander200 said:

They never sell players or get full market value for them though.

Like letting Armstrong run his contract down to a year.Similar with Brererton.The 3 that have gone on a free this summer 250k outlay on Rothwell, they all could have been sold last summer for some profit. 

Turning down the 15 million bid from West Brom for Dack the January Darren Moore was in charge of them.

Rhodes when he was here wanted out for a long time, bigger bids were turned down than what we got for him in the end.  

Mowbray was here 5 year...2 players of any value sold in that time.There was bound to have been other interest in some of our players, Lenihen to Sheffield United being one. 

They definitely don't look after their investments that's for sure.

 

 

Also selling Raya and Cairney for absolute peanuts.

[booth]

9 minutes ago, islander200 said:

They never sell players or get full market value for them though.

Like letting Armstrong run his contract down to a year.Similar with Brererton.The 3 that have gone on a free this summer 250k outlay on Rothwell, they all could have been sold last summer for some profit. 

Turning down the 15 million bid from West Brom for Dack the January Darren Moore was in charge of them.

Rhodes when he was here wanted out for a long time, bigger bids were turned down than what we got for him in the end.  

Mowbray was here 5 year...2 players of any value sold in that time.There was bound to have been other interest in some of our players, Lenihen to Sheffield United being one. 

They definitely don't look after their investments that's for sure.

 

 

Well no one is arguing that Venkys can accomplish anything properly. Just that FFP doesn’t help.

[1864roverite]

Repeat ad finitum if a player wants to run his contract down the club can do nothing about it it’s as simple as that 

[roversfan99]

32 minutes ago, booth said:

Can they take that £2m pitch and sell it on for 8 times more than they spent?

Venkys see players as investments, and beyond that haven’t a clue about much else, it’s not difficult to see that. 

Im genuinely baffled why people can’t see how FFP affects transfers.

I never said that it doesnt affect transfers. I just dont think Venkys would spend any more money if it didnt exist.

1 minute ago, 1864roverite said:

Repeat ad finitum if a player wants to run his contract down the club can do nothing about it it’s as simple as that 

It really isnt. They could sell the player before his contract expires.

[Admiral Nelsen]

6 minutes ago, islander200 said:

They never sell players or get full market value for them though.

Like letting Armstrong run his contract down to a year.Similar with Brererton.The 3 that have gone on a free this summer 250k outlay on Rothwell, they all could have been sold last summer for some profit. 

Turning down the 15 million bid from West Brom for Dack the January Darren Moore was in charge of them.

Rhodes when he was here wanted out for a long time, bigger bids were turned down than what we got for him in the end.  

Mowbray was here 5 year...2 players of any value sold in that time.There was bound to have been other interest in some of our players, Lenihen to Sheffield United being one. 

They definitely don't look after their investments that's for sure.

 

Not sure about Rhodes - didn't we get around £12 million or thereabouts? - but generally I think this is spot on. 

 

Trading smartly is absolutely imperative for clubs without parachute payments coming in. I suppose that you could argue that we've been slightly unlucky in that a disproportionate number of players have really kicked on to another level in the final 12-18 months of their deals, but you make yourself a hostage to fortune if you're not proactive enough with the contracts of players good enough to be in demand. 

 

I'm all for sensible budgets, but Brentford have showed that you need to speculate a little bit to accumulate, and then hopefully grow from there. They sold Watkins for near enough double what we got for Armstrong despite him scoring fewer goals.