Transfer Window - COMPLETE. Where’s Gregg?

[tomphil]

7 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Repeat ad finitum if a player wants to run his contract down the club can do nothing about it it’s as simple as that 

They can sell him whether he likes it or not i think you'd find otherwise he could go on strike and have his remaining deal ripped up.

[JHRover]

17 minutes ago, Butty said:

Also selling Raya and Cairney for absolute peanuts.

They just work on a complete whim IMO.

Year to year or even window to window the plan shifts and changes depending on who is taking the most interest in India (if anyone).

If the manager wants clarity or assurance on funds the only hope he has is to wait for a flight to Pune and go and sit in their mansion for a week waiting to tell them about how great they are and how good it would be to invest some money. After those meetings the manager tends to get a decent chunk of cash to spend.

There's no plan or strategy and what we have now is the top owners - Desai and hubby - backing off and delegating to lower rank people. These people might have more idea (might not) but cannot sanction funds close to the level required, which is why we get what we have seen over the last 2 years - inertia, very limited transfer business, reliance on loans which require no capital commitment.

I don't believe for one minute that the 'top' owners have appointed Tomasson or Broughton, have met them and probably haven't even spoken to them.

The sad thing is that the structure we now have - a head coach who can focus his energies on the team - and a D of F who can handle the recruitment - is probably the most sensible and logical setup we've had in their 12 years of horror. It is sad because no matter how good these two guys might be unless things have changed and the top owners have delegated then it can't succeed.

 

[Admiral Nelsen]

9 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Repeat ad finitum if a player wants to run his contract down the club can do nothing about it it’s as simple as that 

Yes (apart from sell them), but then you question how early players make that decision and what else could've been done beforehand.

 

Perhaps one or two (Rothwell - to take an example) were always going to run down his contract because he figures that's always how he gets the best deal in the future.  But if we looked at the likes of Armstrong, Brereton, Rothwell and Lenihan and genuinely thought they had the potential to kick on, then we had the chance to offer them improved deals when their stock wasn't as high which would've cost us a bit in the medium term, but could've delivered a king's ransom when they would finally be sold (or even play a part in a successful promotion bid). 

[Miller11]

2 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I know most will choose not to believe it but I am firmly of the belief there was a also a very substantial budget available in January as well in addition to the very well publicised bonuses which for some unknown reason Mowbray and Waggott decided not to utilise.

It doesn't seem likely to me that we would appoint a new manager and not afford him at least the same funding Mowbray had. Broughton also claimed there was a "healthy" budget shortly after arriving and again, to me, he'd have nothing whatsoever to gain from lying about that just 2-3 days into the job. He'd be making a rod for his own back.

Something seems to be going horribly wrong somewhere along the line though. I always put it down to Venus being in charge of negotiations and then Mowbray topping it off with his "You'll have to work your way into the side and dislodge Corry and Benno" type spiel.

 

If this is the case then Waggott should be really worried at the moment. If he has failed to spend money made available and also failed to get us in the playoffs, never mind promoted, you’d expect he’d have been hauled over the coals.

On top of the failings last season it looks as though we are going to struggle to field a vaguely competent starting 11 unless there is a massive turnaround pretty quickly. If this is all down to Waggott being useless, and he’s failing to carry out Venky’s wishes, they are being completely negligent by allowing it to continue.

But in reality it seems like they are happy with him, and the job he’s doing. My guess is that they are satisfied with the modest reduction in losses he is making and do not care about much else.

[Exiled in Toronto]

1 hour ago, islander200 said:

They never sell players or get full market value for them though.

Like letting Armstrong run his contract down to a year.Similar with Brererton.The 3 that have gone on a free this summer 250k outlay on Rothwell, they all could have been sold last summer for some profit. 

Turning down the 15 million bid from West Brom for Dack the January Darren Moore was in charge of them.

Rhodes when he was here wanted out for a long time, bigger bids were turned down than what we got for him in the end.  

Mowbray was here 5 year...2 players of any value sold in that time.There was bound to have been other interest in some of our players, Lenihen to Sheffield United being one. 

They definitely don't look after their investments that's for sure.

 

 

They also don’t get the benefit of hindsight that your analysis relies on. I don’t remember any clamour on here to do any of those deals at the times you mention.

Getting £30 million for Samba and Jones, neither of who lived up anywhere close to those fees - equivalent to £130 million today I’d wager - somehow didn’t into fit your narrative.

[cesus]

56 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Repeat ad finitum if a player wants to run his contract down the club can do nothing about it it’s as simple as that 

I think what is being wildly missed on here is the fact that in the main your statement is correct. The current Championship transfer model is clubs with parachute payments spend money on the better quality Championship players, for which Joe Rothwell fell into this category but this bid got rejected. Clubs also have a punt year, looks like Middlesbrough this year where they spend money. The rest of the championship teams work on frees, loans, and small bids from lower leagues, abroad or youth squads. With the best intentions Nyambe and Lenihan fall into the bracket of "solid Championship player", these deals in the vast, vast majority end on Bosmans. The transfer market in the last few years shows no evidence that players like Nyambe or Lenihan go for the figures that are often banded about on here. like £3M.

[Exiled_Rover]

2 hours ago, Armchair supporter supremo said:

I also get the feeling that a few of the club leaks have been plugged up in recent months and the likes of Nixon don't have the connections here that they once had. 

Nixon hasn't had a Rovers connect since the Coyle days. 

[Mattyblue]

14 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

They also don’t get the benefit of hindsight that your analysis relies on. I don’t remember any clamour on here to do any of those deals at the times you mention.

Why do I keep reading on here attempted justification of the club’s inaction because brfcs.com would be upset if ‘player x was sold’, ‘if player y got a new deal’

The feelings of a few dozen folk on a website have bugger all to do with what is right for the club’s balance sheet and supposed operating model…

[Exiled in Toronto]

3 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Why do I keep reading on here attempted justification of the club’s inaction because brfcs.com would be upset if ‘player x was sold’, ‘if player y got a new deal’

The feelings of a few dozen folk on a website have bugger all to do with what is right for the club’s balance sheet and supposed operating model…

Perhaps because you misinterpret posts a lot. I was pointing out the use of hindsight, not the delicate emotions of the BRFCS cry babies.

[Mattyblue]

Ha, pretty sure I don’t, it’s not exactly the enigma machine on here.

But fair enough if you weren’t using upset fans as a reason to not act, though plenty of others have said exactly that from BBD’s contract to Rothwell getting sold

[islander200]

1 hour ago, booth said:

Well no one is arguing that Venkys can accomplish anything properly. Just that FFP doesn’t help.

Totally agree about FFP and I do actually think they would spend more on the playing side if FFP allowed.

But even if they gave Tomosson unlimited funds we would probably still struggle to get deals over the line with the farce of a boardroom we have.Hopefully Broughton can help with this but again that will all depend on how many hoops he has to jump through to get permission to close a deal.

I don't have a problem with how much money they have put in to the playing side and I genuinely believe last couple seasons been penny's in terms of transfer fees is largely down to Ffp.

We couldn't have run a wage bill as big as we did with the income we have for years and not be sailing close to the wind with FFP.

Sadly we are stuck because thus far hardly any effort has been put into driving income into the club, only alienating more of the few supporters we have left by making a season ticket unaffordable for many. 

They won't shell out for a proper CEO or nobody of any stature will come here as they won't give them the authority to make club decisions on their behalf. 

We should have some leeway this summer as I don't believe JDT would have come here after all those departures if he had to rely on loans and free transfers.Fingers crossed this is the beginning where we protect our younger assets with contracts, stop giving out silly contracts to the "men" in the dressing room ,start being a whole lot smarter when it comes to selling a player.

[islander200]

46 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

They also don’t get the benefit of hindsight that your analysis relies on. I don’t remember any clamour on here to do any of those deals at the times you mention.

Getting £30 million for Samba and Jones, neither of who lived up anywhere close to those fees - equivalent to £130 million today I’d wager - somehow didn’t into fit your narrative.

 

46 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

They also don’t get the benefit of hindsight that your analysis relies on. I don’t remember any clamour on here to do any of those deals at the times you mention.

Getting £30 million for Samba and Jones, neither of who lived up anywhere close to those fees - equivalent to £130 million today I’d wager - somehow didn’t into fit your narrative.

They bought Brererton for close to £8 million and let his contract go down to a year.You protect your asset.Well could be argued he wasn't an asset at the time but still 2 season ago he was showing a bit more promiseYes he was poor when playing so it shouldn't have taken that big a rise to get the player interested in extending his deal for a couple of years 

For the second summer running we have been backed into a corner with our current most lucrative asset.

Edited July 11, 2022 by islander200

[RevidgeBlue]

2 hours ago, booth said:

They need to sell him for the maximum amount and give the cash to JDT to rebuild the team. 

Not having a go, as I'm not sure there's a right or wrong answer but hypothetically would you rather we got £20m for BBD this summer but went down, or kept him and we didn't.?

It's not my money so as a fan my answer would be unreservedly the latter. It's no use having money burning a hole in our pocket if any envisaged replacement won't come for the wages we're offering.

(If that's the reason we're struggling to get anyone in).

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

7 games in is fine by you.

4 hours ago, Ruaney said:

So basically, just wait till we’re seven games deep? You’ll actually be happy if we sign nobody by then and then buy them all on that day? 
 

I am giving them time but we need to see SOME movement, not all. Alarm bells will be ringing for me if we don’t have a player in by the end of the week. We are under three weeks till the start of the season, some urgency is required.

Very unlikely we are going wait until the last day to make the 6 signings we. 

I know when the season starts as I'm sure Rovers. I rather be patience make the right signings and get the deals we want. These can take weeks to get in place and everything 

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

 

It really isnt. They could sell the player before his contract expires.

And what if a player refuse to move until he is free agent

[whalleyrover]

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Ah yes, a very substantial budget that the evil Mowbray and Waggott chose not to utilise that conveniently puts 100% of the blame on to them.

So why are Venkys still employing Waggott?

[Finlay McKenna]

34 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Not having a go, as I'm not sure there's a right or wrong answer but hypothetically would you rather we got £20m for BBD this summer but went down, or kept him and we didn't.?

It's not my money so as a fan my answer would be unreservedly the latter. It's no use having money burning a hole in our pocket if any envisaged replacement won't come for the wages we're offering.

(If that's the reason we're struggling to get anyone in).

We're not going down  either way

[tomphil]

Clubs own the players contracts.

 

 

[booth]

39 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Not having a go, as I'm not sure there's a right or wrong answer but hypothetically would you rather we got £20m for BBD this summer but went down, or kept him and we didn't.?

It's not my money so as a fan my answer would be unreservedly the latter. It's no use having money burning a hole in our pocket if any envisaged replacement won't come for the wages we're offering.

(If that's the reason we're struggling to get anyone in).

I’d prefer to get £20m, get some decent players in and not go down/not almost go down.

I don’t think BBD’s goals will be our saviour this year anyway. Van Hecke, Lenihan and Nyambe need replacing. 

If it’s true about being unable to compete with wages then we may as well prep for League 1. 

[Upside Down]

1 hour ago, whalleyrover said:

So why are Venkys still employing Waggott?

Because they don't give a fuck about this club.

[Butty]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

And what if a player refuse to move until he is free agent

BBD’s stock is at a high right now, why would he want to risk staying and having a poor season and playing himself out of a move that may never come again? With the clubs apparently linked he’s going to want to move to a Leeds or a West Ham so the club should be doing all they can to get a move sorted for a decent fee and getting shut of him. 

[Eddie]

13 minutes ago, Butty said:

BBD’s stock is at a high right now, why would he want to risk staying and having a poor season and playing himself out of a move that may never come again? With the clubs apparently linked he’s going to want to move to a Leeds or a West Ham so the club should be doing all they can to get a move sorted for a decent fee and getting shut of him. 

You (some people) think that his stock is very high right now. It's unclear as to whether or not there are top division clubs that agree with that. 

He's been linked with a few moves, but he's got a good PR team behind him now. I'd say his stock would be significantly higher as a free agent. I'm not sure many clubs will be willing to risk 20m(ish) on the basis of 6/7 months of good form. 

[damo100]

1 hour ago, Upside Down said:

Because they don't give a fuck about this club.

So why do they consistently fund the Academy and STC ?

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Finlay McKenna said:

We're not going down  either way

Famous last words..

There are no certainties in football, and in this division as we have seen in recent seasons, anyone can beat anyone. If heads go down at any football club, then a spiral of negativity can set in and that can be catastrophic for form. Even taking into account the weirdness around Mowbray and his crazy tactics (which it appears may well have been his personal two fingered salute to the Venksters) Rovers were a classic example of this last season.

So, although everyone has been given a lift by the arrival of JDT and Broughton, and their refreshingly open and positive approach, the acid test here will be whether the club commits funds to bring in the 6 or so quality players we need to remain at the level we finished the last campaign. I suspect that without reinforcements, we may find it a struggle come the new season, which will be a kick in the nuts for most Rovers fans, especially as we have our relatively well heeled knuckle dragging cousins down the road ready to gloat like howler monkeys if bragging rights go their way.

I just want us to do well, and to be proud of my club at the end of next season.

COYB!

[Neal]

7 hours ago, Finlay McKenna said:

We're not going down  either way

Mad you would think to post that considering the cut throat nature of the championship, all it takes is one bad start, a few injuries and you're in the thick of it. Look at the quality and experience that's just walked out of the door for no money, whilst our rivals are making decent signings already, are integrating them into the team and will generally be better prepared. As it stands, we have unproven youth players filling in and an unproven manager who won't fully grasp the demands of the championship. We look inexperienced at the back, small in midfield and lacking another centre forward. I can already envisage certain media folk saying how we "should of kept Mowbray" as we struggle our way through the season. I know everyone is excited by having a new coach with fresh ideas, some are treating him and Broughton almost like saviours of our football club, let me tell you... 5 games into the season without a win and that optimism will quickly get forgotten about, the mood will turn sour and fingers will get pointed at the owners etc... We've been here before. 

 

This is just me saying what I'm seeing, not being a doom merchant. Lots of work to be done. JDT needs some help. As it stands they're not giving him much chance unless I'm severely underestimating how good a coach he actually is. 

Edited July 12, 2022 by Neal