Transfer Window - COMPLETE. Where’s Gregg?

[Mattyblue]

Aye probably.

Though it does makes me laugh how it’s being justified because it’s a new manager/new structure/new tea lady, when its been no different to most other recent seasons, I.e the bulk of signings, largely loanees, arriving as the season gets underway…

Edited July 13, 2022 by Mattyblue

[MarkBRFC]

Also i just don't understand the clamor to sell Diaz so we can spend the money on "2 or 3 players"

At any other normal club i would completely agree that would be the way to go, but that has never happened under venkys ownership, and certainly won't happen if he was to be sold. That money would just go into the venkys black hole. To be honest we would be better off keeping him with the squad as it is.

Venkys aren't bothered that he would walk away for nothing, they will just fund the difference themselves anyway.

Edited July 13, 2022 by MarkBRFC

[TruRover]

Archer set to go out on loan from Villa. There will be heavy competition for him but I would hope we are in the mix - JDT might even give us an edge 

[BankEnd Rover]

7 minutes ago, TruRover said:

Archer set to go out on loan from Villa. There will be heavy competition for him but I would hope we are in the mix - JDT might even give us an edge 

Really doubt he will come to us when Nobbers hail him as their god…surely he will go back there? 

[Armchair supporter supremo]

3 hours ago, Ossydave said:

On this obsession with 2 left footers at centre half, I remember this debate during last years euros around Spain playing Laporte and Torres. Someone actually went to great lengths to dispell it as a load of bollocks statistically and said it didn't matter. 

I think it's more of an issue for those with ocd just wanting everything to be even and equal. 

Also it's not gurenteed that wharton is "first choice" he was a good mr reliable last year in a back 3! but nothing exceptional, but he's still young and needs to try and raise his game more this year.

[JHRover]

Shouldn't even be entertaining letting anyone go at this point until we have new people in the building or signed and secured to come in.

Selling players now or getting them off the wage bill is just another "jam tomorrow" stunt - cost cutting dressed up and justified under the false pretence of the money being reinvested when it never is.

 

[JBiz]

24 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Shouldn't even be entertaining letting anyone go at this point until we have new people in the building or signed and secured to come in.

Selling players now or getting them off the wage bill is just another "jam tomorrow" stunt - cost cutting dressed up and justified under the false pretence of the money being reinvested when it never is.

 

I imagine there are a lot, I mean loads… of fans of other clubs, who would read this about Blackburn Rovers and think “wtf are you talking about”…

How many clubs in this league have actually spent any money on a fee in the last few years? Let alone 10+ million on two strikers?

54 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

Also i just don't understand the clamor to sell Diaz so we can spend the money on "2 or 3 players"

At any other normal club i would completely agree that would be the way to go, but that has never happened under venkys ownership, and certainly won't happen if he was to be sold. That money would just go into the venkys black hole. To be honest we would be better off keeping him with the squad as it is.

Venkys aren't bothered that he would walk away for nothing, they will just fund the difference themselves anyway.

Re the part in bold, why is it so hard to understand that the club constantly loses money because of low turnover? 
Whilst JHR might believe FFP is a made up excuse, and that covid didn’t really cause any issues - in my opinion, this “venky” black hole idea is just another conspiracy from people who simply don’t even remotely understand football finance.

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

Aye probably.

Though it does makes me laugh how it’s being justified because it’s a new manager/new structure/new tea lady, when its been no different to most other recent seasons, I.e the bulk of signings, largely loanees, arriving as the season gets underway…

Yes because… we aren’t at the front of any queue because of MONEY!

12 months ago we had to offload the training ground to get out of a transfer registration ban… am I the only one who remembers these things?

[MarkBRFC]

Not like you to go on super club defensive mode Jbiz.

[JBiz]

1 minute ago, MarkBRFC said:

Not like you to go on super club defensive mode Jbiz.

It’s called reality mode. Prefer it to “let’s ignore the facts for weird conspiracy speculation” mode that you’ve taken up this morning.

Fact you instantly went to an insult shows exactly how flimsy your arguments are.

[islander200]

7 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

Not like you to go on super club defensive mode Jbiz.

Well he does have a point .

Not many non parachute payment clubs have spent decent money since the pandemic.

Similar with the loan players every club in this division uses loans.Like Forest promoted last season with 5 loans in their starting line up

[Mattyblue]

28 minutes ago, JBiz said:

 

Yes because… we aren’t at the front of any queue because of MONEY!

12 months ago we had to offload the training ground to get out of a transfer registration ban… am I the only one who remembers these things?

Morning Bizzle! What you ranting at me for? 😀

I am very much aware of our shoestring existence, so that’s why loanees will be coming in later on. Kind of my point, that we are not slow because of new structures, but because we’ve no brass, which matters quite a bit in football.

Just the way things are here and I’ve long stopped worrying about it. It’s why I rarely say much about transfer links, ‘oo Player X would be class’, ‘Player Y would be shite, going down with players like him’ , because, well what’s the point, some players will drop in eventually and some will be fine, some a bit crap and maybe a gem or two. Just the way it is at modern BRFC.

 

Edited July 13, 2022 by Mattyblue

[Gav]

17 hours ago, Tugayisgod said:

Sharpe confirming we don’t normally pay loan fees

 

Billionaire owners eh......

It was pointed out last season that Mowbray missed out on all his original loan tagets, now you know why. It ended up really well with Van Hecke, thats testament to the manager and his scouting team, but again we find ourselves unable to compete in the loan market as well as the transfer market.

I'm sure JDT knew the constraints he's be working under when he signed, how long he'll put up with this is anyone's guess.....

[JHRover]

11 minutes ago, JBiz said:

I imagine there are a lot, I mean loads… of fans of other clubs, who would read this about Blackburn Rovers and think “wtf are you talking about”…

How many clubs in this league have actually spent any money on a fee in the last few years? Let alone 10+ million on two strikers?

Re the part in bold, why is it so hard to understand that the club constantly loses money because of low turnover? 
Whilst JHR might believe FFP is a made up excuse, and that covid didn’t really cause any issues - in my opinion, this “venky” black hole idea is just another conspiracy from people who simply don’t even remotely understand football finance.

Yes because… we aren’t at the front of any queue because of MONEY!

12 months ago we had to offload the training ground to get out of a transfer registration ban… am I the only one who remembers these things?

Any money on a fee in the last few years?

Without trawling through the record books of the 'last few years' I'd put money on it that pretty much every club, including ourselves, has paid some money on at least one transfer fee in recent seasons. We did it with Hedges in January, inexplicably.

The important part of course is what the money is spent on and how it compares to other clubs and how it compares to incomings.

For example, I'm sure you are aware that in the 'last few years' we've sold David Raya and Adam Armstrong for pushing £20 million and will be forced to sell BBD hopefully for at least £10  million. Together that money comfortably wipes out whatever fees have been paid out, meaning the owners have covered their outlay on fees and instead pick up the tab on the wage bill, which they have always been ok with.

I'm pretty sure that not many Championship clubs other than Rovers have had such a net profit on trading in the last 2-3 years.

You reference the £10 million + on two strikers but those signings were made 3-4 years ago before the latest round of cost cutting came along, and they've made their money back comfortably on that with AA and BBD.

I'm well aware of football finances, I'm well aware that we lose more than we bring in. I'm also aware that the same applies to 75%  of Championship clubs who don't have large crowds, parachute money and I'm also aware that in the last few windows we have been outspent by smaller clubs, who don't have billionaire owners, who haven't brought in tens of millions in fees and who haven't demolished their wage bills in the last 12 months.

Any guesses where we are on wages right now compared to 18 months ago?

In my view the training ground stunt was just another desperate move by a Club ill equipped to manage the situation. Meanwhile we see rival clubs managing their finances, investing whilst offering cheaper tickets and not having to sell off infrastructure.

You mention we were forced to sell the training ground to avoid a 'registration ban' - would we be any worse off now if we hadn't sold the training ground and had been put under a ban? We would still have been able to bring in loans and cheap signings just like we did when Bowyer was working under an embargo.

We might disagree on most of the above but surely we can agree that whatever the situation we are poor at managing the situation, as evidenced by the latest contract fiasco which if avoided could have meant a £10 million difference to the Club finances?

[47er]

10 minutes ago, Gav said:

Billionaire owners eh......

It was pointed out last season that Mowbray missed out on all his original loan tagets, now you know why. It ended up really well with Van Hecke, thats testament to the manager and his scouting team, but again we find ourselves unable to compete in the loan market as well as the transfer market.

I'm sure JDT knew the constraints he's be working under when he signed, how long he'll put up with this is anyone's guess.....

Prepare to be called negative!

[JBiz]

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

Any money on a fee in the last few years?

As you mentioned, Hedges, also Markanday and Pickering in the last 12/18 months

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

Without trawling through the record books of the 'last few years' I'd put money on it that pretty much every club, including ourselves, has paid some money on at least one transfer fee in recent seasons. We did it with Hedges in January, inexplicably.

The important part of course is what the money is spent on and how it compares to other clubs and how it compares to incomings.

For example, I'm sure you are aware that in the 'last few years' we've sold David Raya and Adam Armstrong for pushing £20 million and will be forced to sell BBD hopefully for at least £10  million. Together that money comfortably wipes out whatever fees have been paid out, meaning the owners have covered their outlay on fees and instead pick up the tab on the wage bill, which they have always been ok with.

I'm pretty sure that not many Championship clubs other than Rovers have had such a net profit on trading in the last 2-3 years.

We agree here - however throwing everything into one expenses pot, I’d suggest we are nearer the top and therefore need a running transfer profit

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

You reference the £10 million + on two strikers but those signings were made 3-4 years ago before the latest round of cost cutting came along, and they've made their money back comfortably on that with AA and BBD.

I'm well aware of football finances, I'm well aware that we lose more than we bring in. I'm also aware that the same applies to 75%  of Championship clubs who don't have large crowds, parachute money and I'm also aware that in the last few windows we have been outspent by smaller clubs, who don't have billionaire owners, who haven't brought in tens of millions in fees and who haven't demolished their wage bills in the last 12 months.

Plenty of those clubs have nowhere near the same level of overheads, and when you’re talking about wages it’s only the facilities and coaches in the academy that are exempt from FFP, not your u23 / reserve or professional contract players.

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

Any guesses where we are on wages right now compared to 18 months ago?

I’d say we’d probably dropped a huge chunk but I would’ve guessed the loans of Poveda, Khadra and Van Hecke (as more expensive premier league wages) would’ve been the equivalent of cutting out the Bennett’s, Mulgrews and Evans.

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

In my view the training ground stunt was just another desperate move by a Club ill equipped to manage the situation. Meanwhile we see rival clubs managing their finances, investing whilst offering cheaper tickets and not having to sell off infrastructure.

We had a transfer registration embargo. The rules should’ve changed in regard to covid, remember clubs work on yearly budgets and the finances come a year after, the black hole of no crowd money caused serious issues for a lot of clubs (hence huge amounts of players available on frees this summer)

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

You mention we were forced to sell the training ground to avoid a 'registration ban' - would we be any worse off now if we hadn't sold the training ground and had been put under a ban? We would still have been able to bring in loans and cheap signings just like we did when Bowyer was working under an embargo.

Yea but not 20k a week loans of premier league level centre backs. Player of the season last year? 

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

We might disagree on most of the above but surely we can agree that whatever the situation we are poor at managing the situation, as evidenced by the latest contract fiasco which if avoided could have meant a £10 million difference to the Club finances?

I agree and I am frustrated but I acknowledge that it’s impossible to force players to stay.

Could we move the budget and convince them through money? 
 

That’s one of the things that makes managing a football club difficult. Knowing exactly which basket to move your eggs.

 

[JHRover]

4 minutes ago, JBiz said:

As you mentioned, Hedges, also Markanday and Pickering in the last 12/18 months

We agree here - however throwing everything into one expenses pot, I’d suggest we are nearer the top and therefore need a running transfer profit

Plenty of those clubs have nowhere near the same level of overheads, and when you’re talking about wages it’s only the facilities and coaches in the academy that are exempt from FFP, not your u23 / reserve or professional contract players.

I’d say we’d probably dropped a huge chunk but I would’ve guessed the loans of Poveda, Khadra and Van Hecke (as more expensive premier league wages) would’ve been the equivalent of cutting out the Bennett’s, Mulgrews and Evans.

We had a transfer registration embargo. The rules should’ve changed in regard to covid, remember clubs work on yearly budgets and the finances come a year after, the black hole of no crowd money caused serious issues for a lot of clubs (hence huge amounts of players available on frees this summer)

Yea but not 20k a week loans of premier league level centre backs. Player of the season last year? 

I agree and I am frustrated but I acknowledge that it’s impossible to force players to stay.

Could we move the budget and convince them through money? 
 

That’s one of the things that makes managing a football club difficult. Knowing exactly which basket to move your eggs.

 

I'm unsure on the 'overheads' part. To my knowledge all Clubs have stadia to maintain, and most spend more on upkeep and maintenance than we do on Ewood, which is evidenced by the state of the place.

All clubs have reserves or U23s, all clubs have training grounds. Granted we have two sites at Brockhall which most clubs won't but I'm not having it that the running costs of that put us so far off the scale compared to rivals.

I don't think I've ever suggested that we should try to 'force' players to stay, and of course I realise that once a player is free to talk to other clubs it will come down to what the player wants to do.

The issue here isn't 'forcing' them to stay. The issues are a) whether we dealt with the contract situations professionally and expeditiously, I don't believe we did, b) whether we offered remotely what players of their calibre can expect, I don't believe we did, certainly not early on in negotiations, and c) why these players see the likes of Middlesbrough as a step up, better option or advancement, I don't believe they should.

Forcing doesn't come into it - get your house in order on the above 3 options and those players stay

Of course covid caused issues, but it seems to me that Rovers basically did nothing during that time, whereas other clubs continued to deal with issues such as tying key players down to deals and ensuring their squads were recycled and filled with sufficient personell. It looks to me as though, with a couple of exceptions, we have just ignored the iceberg, allowed an exodus of players and now are struggling to 'get back on the horse' through a self-imposed wage limit

Of course last year - and credit to Mowbray - it wasn't a problem as due to that purple patch through November and December we outperformed expectations. But the downside to that is I think a few have deluded themselves as to how easy it is going to be - I think we could be in for a shock.

[Polky]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11009181/Liverpool-ramp-talks-Blackburn-defender-Ben-Davies-amid-pre-season-tour-absence.html

[ItsRoverZ]

18 minutes ago, BRFC_Polky said:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11009181/Liverpool-ramp-talks-Blackburn-defender-Ben-Davies-amid-pre-season-tour-absence.html

Honestly would be really happy with this

[Gav]

42 minutes ago, 47er said:

Prepare to be called negative!

I've been called worse, occasionally by you 🤣

 

[Exiled_Rover]

5 minutes ago, ItsRoverZ said:

Honestly would be really happy with this

I'd like to sign him rather than loan him.

[Guest]

Talk about the finances involved are concerning, but, objectively, this is a fantastic signing even on loan.

Was in the conversation of the best CB in the championship in his time at Preston.

EDIT: The worry of course is if we don't sign anyone else of that caliber, then it's almost pointless. We won't be going up and will have to give him back in 12 months.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Mellor Rover

[neophox]

Davies deal hopefully done soon so he can go to Scotland.

[neophox]

You need more than one left footed central defender.

[neophox]

Surely a danish player will be coming this window.

[bazza]

2 minutes ago, neophox said:

Surely a danish player will be coming this window.

Surely 6 Danish players will be coming this window.