Transfer Window - COMPLETE. Where’s Gregg?

[islander200]

  On 18/07/2022 at 10:06, 47er said:

Offer him enough to keep him and regard it as an investment?

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So if a big 6 club is offering 10-15k a week like they often give top young players then we should match it?

Far more highly rated young players don't live up to their potential than the ones who actually do.

Yes we should be making him a good offer and doing our utmost to get him to put pen to paper but I also don't think the club should be open to too much grief for not being able to compete with one of the top clubs for his signature 

[briansol]

  On 18/07/2022 at 10:08, JoeH said:

Let's say it's costing us £3m. There's a bit of a debate about the true cost because of funding within the EPPP guidelines, but for the sake of the discussion let's just go with £3m. 

Cat 1 established in 2013, so 9 years, but let's again call it 10 for the sake of ease.

So it's cost us £30m. The question is have we received £30m in benefit for the 1st team over that decade. 

Darragh Lenihan
Lewis Travis
Ryan Nyambe
David Raya
Scott Wharton
Connor Mahoney
John Buckley

are the main ones who've broken through in that time really...

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There are few others that haven't made an impact but sold like (just the top of my head)

Jack O'Connell

Andy Fisher

Callum Wright

 

[RTM08]

  On 18/07/2022 at 10:08, JoeH said:

Let's say it's costing us £3m. There's a bit of a debate about the true cost because of funding within the EPPP guidelines, but for the sake of the discussion let's just go with £3m. 

Cat 1 established in 2013, so 9 years, but let's again call it 10 for the sake of ease.

So it's cost us £30m. The question is have we received £30m in benefit for the 1st team over that decade. 

Darragh Lenihan
Lewis Travis
Ryan Nyambe
David Raya
Scott Wharton
Connor Mahoney
John Buckley

are the main ones who've broken through in that time really...

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This and the guys coming through now would say thst it has been worth the investment. The problem is that the club is so unbelievably inept at handling contracts that we never cash in on them when we should have, and therefore haven't pulled in nearly the amount we could have for reinvestment.

It's the same with BBD this summer - if he's not signing a new contract we have to get rid this summer because we can't afford another high value asset to disappear on a free.

[Guest]

Oh there's certainly more. Callum Wright is a really interesting one bc we got a decent fee for him. Doing alright ish on a league one loan last year but hardly pulling up any huge trees.

[Exiled_Rover]

  On 18/07/2022 at 10:08, JoeH said:

Let's say it's costing us £3m. There's a bit of a debate about the true cost because of funding within the EPPP guidelines, but for the sake of the discussion let's just go with £3m. 

Cat 1 established in 2013, so 9 years, but let's again call it 10 for the sake of ease.

So it's cost us £30m. The question is have we received £30m in benefit for the 1st team over that decade. 

Darragh Lenihan
Lewis Travis
Ryan Nyambe
David Raya
Scott Wharton
Connor Mahoney
John Buckley

are the main ones who've broken through in that time really...

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Without question it's been worth every penny.

[Miller11]

  On 18/07/2022 at 10:13, JoeH said:

But, Jones was sold before Cat 1 in 2013. We've spent £30m (estimate) since 2013 on the academy.

Lenihan we got a lot of games out of, without gaining any major fee. How much was he worth to us over his near decade at the club? Hard to put a figure on it. Monetary value of getting promoted out of League One was around £5m, but hard to assign that to a few players, certainly adds something.

Travis still here, assumedly the 22/23 captain and has certainly added a lot of value to our team, but no monetary value to objectively accumulate. 

Nyambe has gone for nothing but of course played 183 games for the club, adding value to us over his time here. Monetary value of getting promoted out of League One was around £5m, but hard to assign that to a few players, certainly adds something.

Raya sold for a fee, somewhere between £3m-5m without knowing the particulars of the deal. Got some decent stuff out of him whilst he was here. Monetary value of getting promoted out of League One was around £5m, but hard to assign that to a few players, certainly adds something.

Scott Wharton finally giving us some worth after years out on loan, no monetary value as of yet.

Connor Mahoney a bit of a disaster, not much value out of him with playing time or financials.

John Buckley certainly in the Scott Wharton category of proving his worth now and could certainly make us money in the future, but nothing as of yet.

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I was looking at fees brought in by Venky’s from academy products.

Its definitely a cost effective way of fielding a team when you have a crop of players good enough. We look like we are in a purple patch currently. Beats paying loan fees for sure!

Its a huge asset for us, no doubt. If we’d managed to retain Lenihan and Nyambe we’d have a strong team made up of majority graduates. Unfortunately, we also seem to see it as a way to underpay wages. We need to quickly get better at retention.

[davulsukur]

West Ham in advanced talks to sign Broja from Chelsea for £30m, probably means they won't be moving for BBD

[JHRover]

£3 million per year is the total cost for the academy

Couple of points to keep in mind.

One is that we recieve grants of over £1 million a year towards the total cost. Waggott himself claimed these grants came to approximately £1.1 million per year.

Another is that assuming we have any academy, B team or development squad there will be a cost so whilst it is higher with the demands of Category 1 status it is still substantial even if you only have Category 2 or even 3.

So rather than consider it a generous donation of £3 million per year from Venkys take away grants and the costs there would be anyway even if we downgraded the difference is nowhere near £3 million. It is £1.9 million minus the costs of having an inferior academy, which would obviously be 6 figures if not 7 per year.

So yes, it is a no-brainer, but the shame is it is being ruined by the no-brainers at ownership and board level - it is a waste of time if we are losing players for nothing.

[Guest]

The suitors for BBD are dropping like flies... 

[J*B]

  On 18/07/2022 at 10:13, JoeH said:

But, Jones was sold before Cat 1 in 2013. We've spent £30m (estimate) since 2013 on the academy.

Lenihan we got a lot of games out of, without gaining any major fee. How much was he worth to us over his near decade at the club? Hard to put a figure on it. Monetary value of getting promoted out of League One was around £5m, but hard to assign that to a few players, certainly adds something.

Travis still here, assumedly the 22/23 captain and has certainly added a lot of value to our team, but no monetary value to objectively accumulate. 

Nyambe has gone for nothing but of course played 183 games for the club, adding value to us over his time here. Monetary value of getting promoted out of League One was around £5m, but hard to assign that to a few players, certainly adds something.

Raya sold for a fee, somewhere between £3m-5m without knowing the particulars of the deal. Got some decent stuff out of him whilst he was here. Monetary value of getting promoted out of League One was around £5m, but hard to assign that to a few players, certainly adds something.

Scott Wharton finally giving us some worth after years out on loan, no monetary value as of yet.

Connor Mahoney a bit of a disaster, not much value out of him with playing time or financials.

John Buckley certainly in the Scott Wharton category of proving his worth now and could certainly make us money in the future, but nothing as of yet.

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Good post.

Lenihan - successful career, no monetary returns. 6 years of first team action for Rovers - looking at Anel or Davies at 3-4M to replace him... so lets say he's saved us 4M.

Travis - successful career, still first team. Reckon you could link him to a similar player that has been sold recently for value?

Nyambe - successful career, no monetary returns. Going to cost us a how much do you reckon to replace him? 

Raya - successful career, 3-5m returns

Wharton - very early doors, but certainly a first teamer. If Anel or Davies are 3-4M, whats Wharton? 2M? 

Mahoney - didn't someone pay a tribunal? 

Buckley - I know you are, but i'm not yet convinced. 

Then you've got the next lot, assuming they sign contracts...

Wharton, Garrett, Phillips, Batty, Vale. 

[Oldgregg86]

Got a few quid and goals out of nuttall to

[J*B]

  On 18/07/2022 at 10:50, Oldgregg86 said:

Got a few quid and goals out of nuttall to

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He wasn't academy though, was he? We signed him and he had a good year in U23s then sold him. Similar to McBride? 

[lraC]

  On 18/07/2022 at 10:39, J*B said:

Good post.

Lenihan - successful career, no monetary returns. 6 years of first team action for Rovers - looking at Anel or Davies at 3-4M to replace him... so lets say he's saved us 4M.

Travis - successful career, still first team. Reckon you could link him to a similar player that has been sold recently for value?

Nyambe - successful career, no monetary returns. Going to cost us a how much do you reckon to replace him? 

Raya - successful career, 3-5m returns

Wharton - very early doors, but certainly a first teamer. If Anel or Davies are 3-4M, whats Wharton? 2M? 

Mahoney - didn't someone pay a tribunal? 

Buckley - I know you are, but i'm not yet convinced. 

Then you've got the next lot, assuming they sign contracts...

Wharton, Garrett, Phillips, Batty, Vale. 

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Big seasons coming up for Wharton & Buckley. I hope to see both do well and become valuable assets to the club. If I was making decisions, I would be speculating and offering them extended and more lucrative contracts now.

[briansol]

  On 18/07/2022 at 10:53, lraC said:

Big seasons coming up for Wharton & Buckley. I hope to see both do well and become valuable assets to the club. If I was making decisions, I would be speculating and offering them extended and more lucrative contracts now.

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They both signed new contracts last year untill 2024 (plus one-year option) so effectively have 3 years left.

Edited July 18, 2022 by briansol

[Oldgregg86]

  On 18/07/2022 at 10:52, J*B said:

He wasn't academy though, was he? We signed him and he had a good year in U23s then sold him. Similar to McBride? 

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  On 18/07/2022 at 10:52, J*B said:

He wasn't academy though, was he? We signed him and he had a good year in U23s then sold him. Similar to McBride? 

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You can’t argue that the academy didn’t develop him into a first team player and eventual transfer fee. We get a lot of players from other clubs into our academy he was just a late one. Served it’s purpose is the point I was making

[lraC]

  On 18/07/2022 at 10:56, briansol said:

They both signed new contracts last year untill 2024 (plus one-year option) so effectively have 3 years left.

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Cheers. I didn't know and have to say that's very pleasing to see.

[Mercer]

  On 18/07/2022 at 08:53, neophox said:

Waggot should had been sacked months ago...

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You are quite wrong.

IMO, he should never have been appointed in the first place - there was nothing in his track record to suggest he was the man for us.

I think he is a fifth rater and that is being kind.  I would not trust the guy as far as I could spit and I think Cole's autobiography said it all.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Mercer

[Tricky]

  On 17/07/2022 at 11:01, chaddyrovers said:

  On 16/07/2022 at 14:27, Tricky said:

Always thought Gregg Broughton was a bit creepy, no wonder we haven't signed anyone.

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bit creepy? what are you going on about?

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cant imagine anyone being filled with enthusiasm to join Rovers once they come across these two ...

 

[rigger]

  On 18/07/2022 at 10:09, Exiled_Rover said:

If Spurs / Utd etc are interested and he has no loyalty to Rovers then there's nothing we can offer him that they can't blow out of the water.

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One thing we could offer Phillips is a pathway to the first team. In 3 years time, at Rovers he will probably be a regular first teamer, with one of the big clubs he will probably be on loan somewhere.

[yeti-dog]

  On 18/07/2022 at 09:04, Sparks Rover said:

Ha ha...he's been on the radar for years mate...you think players like that go under the radar when they play other clubs in matches....

Know for a fact utd have been in for him for ages, I know the utd scout who's been watching him.  His job is to buy from other academies.

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Why does it feel like you're enjoying this situation a bit too much?

Regarding the bit in bold - sounds a bit like he's no better than a pimp working the street corners looking for new talent...  

[Devon Rover]

  On 18/07/2022 at 11:10, rigger said:

One thing we could offer Phillips is a pathway to the first team. In 3 years time, at Rovers he will probably be a regular first teamer, with one of the big clubs he will probably be on loan somewhere.

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Agreed. But they will pay him (much) more money in a career that is relatively short. That talks, especially when you are at a club that appears to have a self-created financial obstacle to holding on to your more senior player colleagues - and a perennial lack of ambition. You have to be able to offer most young players something more than first team opportunities below the Premier League, or they will take the money/kudos on offer elsewhere. 

[Mercer]

The only cloud on the horizon on this glorious summer's day is Rovers.

I find it so flecking depressing.

Lenihan, Rothwell and Nyambe gone for feck all.

Phillips contract unsigned.  Think writing is on the wall - we are going to lose him for buttons.

Going to lose BBD for a cut price - worse still, he'll just run down the last year of his contract.

Not a signing made.

Think it's difficult to argue that we are nothing but a fecking shambles and we are fecked as a club

Edited July 18, 2022 by Mercer

[JHRover]

"Ash Phillips agreement and Blackburn Rovers contract latest as negotiations take focus - LancsLive" https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/football-news/blackburn-rovers-phillips-contract-latest-21594468?fr=operanews

 

Once again we've been taken for fools by Waggott and co. 

Why tell the local press his future is agreed and secured if it isn't?

 

[Leonard Venkhater]

  On 18/07/2022 at 11:17, Mercer said:

The only cloud on the horizon on this glorious summer's day is Rovers.

I find it so flecking depressing.

Lenihan, Rothwell and Nyambe gone for feck all.

Phillips contract unsigned.  Think writing is on the wall - we are going to lose him for buttons.

Going to lose BBD for a cut price - worse still, he'll just run down the last year of his contract.

Not a signing made.

Think it's difficult to argue that we are nothing but a fecking shambles and we are fecked as a club.

 

 

 

 

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The sun has got his hat on,

Hip. hip. hip hurrah!

[rigger]

  On 18/07/2022 at 11:15, Devon Rover said:

Agreed. But they will pay him (much) more money in a career that is relatively short. That talks, especially when you are at a club that appears to have a self-created financial obstacle to holding on to your more senior player colleagues - and a perennial lack of ambition. You have to be able to offer most young players something more than first team opportunities below the Premier League, or they will take the money/kudos on offer elsewhere. 

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But if he is playing regular first team football he will be able to get a more lucrative move, than if he is on loan somewhere. I doubt that one of the big teams would play one of their youngsters, if they had a gap to fill, they would just buy a proven player.