Transfer Window - COMPLETE. Where’s Gregg?

[Jimmy612]

5 minutes ago, goozburger said:

Phillips will be 17 before the season starts but I tend to agree. Carter will be ahead of him in the pecking order based on his League One stints. Think next step for Phillips should be a loan.

It's an interesting one. There's a temptation to throw him in because of the plaudits he's getting, but I think we need to be so careful with him. Ridiculous comparison I know, but look how Pep handled Foden. He didn't loan him, but he took huge care in ensuring they didn't overload him. Even when pundits and fans alike were going mad for hin to start, he stuck to his guns and protected him until he was ready. Its even more difficult with a defender because they're unlikely to get many minutes off the bench. 

It's a tough call and a situation that will need to be managed really carefully, but expecting him to come in as a first team regular is a very risky approach. 

[RoversTilliDie]

13 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I would say needing 6 signings doesn't mean squad is threadbare at all

Four or Five new signings mixed with the young talent we've got, and I can't  see why we can't have a decent season next season.

[rigger]

1 hour ago, Jimmy612 said:

It's an interesting one. There's a temptation to throw him in because of the plaudits he's getting, but I think we need to be so careful with him. Ridiculous comparison I know, but look how Pep handled Foden. He didn't loan him, but he took huge care in ensuring they didn't overload him. Even when pundits and fans alike were going mad for hin to start, he stuck to his guns and protected him until he was ready. Its even more difficult with a defender because they're unlikely to get many minutes off the bench. 

It's a tough call and a situation that will need to be managed really carefully, but expecting him to come in as a first team regular is a very risky approach. 

I think Phillips should be allowed to establish himself at U23s level, rather than be loaned out. I would also say the same for Adam Wharton and Jake Batty. They are for the future, not the here and now.

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, goozburger said:

 Think next step for Phillips should be a loan.

Too young for a loan at this stage.  No professional club will want a 17 year old CH to throw straight in....needs a bit more time in the 23s and maybe once he's 19 a loan might be ideal.  It's getting the right loan that is a problem.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Too young for a loan at this stage.  No professional club will want a 17 year old CH to throw straight in....needs a bit more time in the 23s and maybe once he's 19 a loan might be ideal.  It's getting the right loan that is a problem.

Know of 7 League One clubs who's staff disagree with that assertion. If Rovers want to loan him out, the phone will ring all day.

Edited June 12, 2022 by JoeH

[damo100]

2 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Too young for a loan at this stage.  No professional club will want a 17 year old CH to throw straight in....needs a bit more time in the 23s and maybe once he's 19 a loan might be ideal.  It's getting the right loan that is a problem.

Sure Harvey Elliott was only 17 when we loaned him from Liverpool.

If you're good enough you're old enough. 

[OldEwoodBlue]

Reality check.

Last season the squad was nowhere near good enough to get out of this league. Hence the result.

Good to see the back of players like Rothwell and Lenihan who just didn't do enough, often enough.

We need to spend around £45 million on better quality players all over the park.

We won't of course. We think we can compete by promoting a few kids and hiring a  DOF. We won't compete. It will be a right load of shit but lets watch it all play out and kid ourselves it's a new dawn.

 

[Sparks Rover]

18 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Know of 7 League One clubs who's staff disagree with that assertion. If Rovers want to loan him out, the phone will ring all day.

You always ITK but not really.  Show me an example or 7 of a 17 year old centre half playing regular league 1 football 🤷‍♂️

[Sparks Rover]

18 minutes ago, damo100 said:

Sure Harvey Elliott was only 17 when we loaned him from Liverpool.

If you're good enough you're old enough. 

I'm talking about central defenders mate....show me a 17 year old central defender playing regular football in L1 or championship.

[briansol]

8 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

I'm talking about central defenders mate....show me a 17 year old central defender playing regular football in L1 or championship.

Ash Phillips is still only 16 (turning 17 later this month)

Even if there was takers, it would be better for him to at least spend the next half season at the U23 and training with the seniors. Might get a bench appearance or two.

He spend at least half the season injured after picking up two injuries while away at England U17.  At such age you also needs to make sure he has a network around him for housing, transport and accomodation if he was to be loaned. 

When Elliott was here at 17, he was still living with his parents who I think drove him. 

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, damo100 said:

Sure Harvey Elliott was only 17 when we loaned him from Liverpool.

If you're good enough you're old enough. 

Different position completely. Every single striker in the championship would bully Phillips physically. Basics biology.

[rigger]

7 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

Different position completely. Every single striker in the championship would bully Phillips physically. Basics biology.

Except the Rovers forwards.

Edited June 12, 2022 by rigger

[superniko]

20 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

I'm talking about central defenders mate....show me a 17 year old central defender playing regular football in L1 or championship.

De Ligt was playing in a Europa League final at 17 and regular for Ajax at 16 and regular for Holland at 17

Tomori was on loan in the Championship at 18 I think

Stones was starting for Barnsley aged 17

Reese James was at Wigan on loan for a year (yes Right Back and may actually have been 18) 

There will be more if I spent more than 2 minutes looking - there would 100% be L1 clubs lining up to get Phillips on loan. 

 

[Sparks Rover]

2 minutes ago, superniko said:

De Ligt was playing in a Europa League final at 17 and regular for Ajax at 16 and regular for Holland at 17

Tomori was on loan in the Championship at 18 I think

Stones was starting for Barnsley aged 17

Reese James was at Wigan on loan for a year (yes Right Back and may actually have been 18) 

There will be more if I spent more than 2 minutes looking - there would 100% be L1 clubs lining up to get Phillips on loan. 

 

All world class....Jesus talk about dying to win an argument.....go on then well done👏👏🙄

[roversfan99]

5 hours ago, Jimmy612 said:

The idea of blooding youngsters is great, and a model all clubs would love to use. But an over reliance will lead to massive struggles. The majority of these kids won't make an impact in professional football, never mind in the Championship.  We've had loads of hopefuls that have ended up dropping down the leagues - Willem Tomlinson springs to mind, playing at Chorley now.  Adam Henley made quite a few starts for us, now at Chorley as well. Jason Lowe made 11 starts for England U21s and was captain of our U23s. He's 30 and has played at Salford in League 2 for 3 seasons. 

Last year everyone was desperate for Butterworth to get a go. He was hopeless 99% of the time.  I'm not saying immediately give up on him, but bringing through 4 youngsters on top of our current squad isn't the answer. We've lost 3 senior players, at least 2 or 3 regular loan starters, Brereton will likely go as will Ayala by the sounds of it - so that's 8 lost. Considering we were light on players at the end of last season, in my opinion we are on an absolute knife edge at the moment, and fast running out of time. 

100%. This idea of filling numerous gaps at once left by senior departees all with totally untested kids is particularly unrealistic when you factor in how unlikely it is that all the kids in question all break through at all, never mind in one summer!

You take Phillips, he is 16/17 and seemingly suffering fairly regularly injuries as he grows into his body. To expect him to help to fill the void left by our captain of many years and our player of the season, to the point whereby we sign one less defender to give him that "pathway" would be a crazy risk. With Carter you could understand allowing him to fill a gap, he has always seemed shaky at Championship level but he has had a second successful loan spell in League 1 so it would be a more calculated risk. 

Likewise Vale, he may have done well against kids in defence but he struggled in non league last season on loan and barely scored. He may come through this season, he might come through in 2 or 3 seasons or equally he may never come through at Championship level. If he does this season it should be a bonus, not something we pre-plan to the point of assuming he will and refraining from signing a player.

Garrett again may well be a talent but he has never played senior football, and we have lost Rothwell, Johnson and Davenport from a position that I already saw us as a bit light of quality in. We need 2 or 3 in, if Garrett breaks through as well, bonus.

[superniko]

12 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

All world class....Jesus talk about dying to win an argument.....go on then well done👏👏🙄

😂😂😂 you never know!

In fairness, De Ligt probably the only one who was playing top level at that very time. 
Stones at Barnsley wasn’t guaranteed to be World Class

Edited June 12, 2022 by superniko

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

You always ITK but not really.  Show me an example or 7 of a 17 year old centre half playing regular league 1 football 🤷‍♂️

Well I'm not lying, what would be the point? Pure loyalty to a random youth team player? He's the talk of the town every single week, without fail, across the country. This is a unique footballer that breaks usual moulds. 

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

All world class....Jesus talk about dying to win an argument.....go on then well done👏👏🙄

That's what Ash Phillips is going to be. Will say it now that unless injuries ruin his career (because that could happen) he'll go as far as Stones. Future England player for sure.

[SuperBrfc]

26 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

100%. This idea of filling numerous gaps at once left by senior departees all with totally untested kids is particularly unrealistic when you factor in how unlikely it is that all the kids in question all break through at all, never mind in one summer!

You take Phillips, he is 16/17 and seemingly suffering fairly regularly injuries as he grows into his body. To expect him to help to fill the void left by our captain of many years and our player of the season, to the point whereby we sign one less defender to give him that "pathway" would be a crazy risk. With Carter you could understand allowing him to fill a gap, he has always seemed shaky at Championship level but he has had a second successful loan spell in League 1 so it would be a more calculated risk. 

Likewise Vale, he may have done well against kids in defence but he struggled in non league last season on loan and barely scored. He may come through this season, he might come through in 2 or 3 seasons or equally he may never come through at Championship level. If he does this season it should be a bonus, not something we pre-plan to the point of assuming he will and refraining from signing a player.

Garrett again may well be a talent but he has never played senior football, and we have lost Rothwell, Johnson and Davenport from a position that I already saw us as a bit light of quality in. We need 2 or 3 in, if Garrett breaks through as well, bonus.

Last year the same thing was being put forward by a certain poster. We don't need to sign two strikers, we've got Butterworth and McBride. We don't need to sign two central midfielders, we've got Davenport and Garrett. We don't need to sign two right backs, we've got Pike.

None of those youngsters did a thing. 12 months on and no lessons seem to have been learnt. The likes of Phillips, Garrett and Vale might be decent, they might not. Phillips is highly thought of and I look forward to seeing what he can do.

However, to count them in at this stage as being able to contribute and suggest that this reduces the need for a signing in their position is madness, imo.

[Sparks Rover]

13 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Well I'm not lying, what would be the point? Pure loyalty to a random youth team player? He's the talk of the town every single week, without fail, across the country. This is a unique footballer that breaks usual moulds. 

You said 7 league 1 teams who you know would take him on loan..

He's got a long long way to go even to make it as an established professional and you know 7 league 1 teams who would put him straight in...sorry not having that.

[Sparks Rover]

26 minutes ago, JoeH said:

That's what Ash Phillips is going to be. Will say it now that unless injuries ruin his career (because that could happen) he'll go as far as Stones. Future England player for sure.

I hope so mate.  But as of right now he isn't capable of playing in league 1.  Not one manager would put him in his starting 11 if they had anything to play for.

 

Probably end up at Utd when he's deal.runs out next season anyway

Edited June 12, 2022 by Sparks Rover

[bluebruce]

2 hours ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

Reality check.

Last season the squad was nowhere near good enough to get out of this league. Hence the result.

Good to see the back of players like Rothwell and Lenihan who just didn't do enough, often enough.

We need to spend around £45 million on better quality players all over the park.

Amazing! Every word of this is wrong. (Yes I cut off the last bit, which was right)

[OldEwoodBlue]

If it was so easy everyone would be doing it.

And what is the point of having billionaire owners exactly?

[chaddyrovers]

7 hours ago, Jimmy612 said:

Brown - no, didn't know you were classing him. Surprised you define him as an U23 tbh, I have him as a first team player now, such is the lack of depth in our squad. 

Philips. I repeat, he's 16. Wayne Rooney was once in a generation playing at that age, perhaps Bellingham as well. You risk destroying him by asking him to play against full.professionals so soon. To my knowledge, he's never played a senior game for Rovers or any other team? 

Vale - 1 goal in 10 at Halifax last season.  5th tier I believe. What qualifies him to be a regular first team player? 

Who was your 4th? Apologies, may have missed it. 

My posts on the issue was very clear who the 4 were. Brown was in the under 23's squad last season. 

My 4th was Jake Garrett. talented player. 

You clearly didn't read the post properly cos nowhere did I say Vale would be regular first team player but part of our squad. 

Did Travis and Buckley go out on loan before they made their debuts here. No they didn't. I think Phillips, Garrett and Vale are off similar quality

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

You take Phillips, he is 16/17 and seemingly suffering fairly regularly injuries as he grows into his body. To expect him to help to fill the void left by our captain of many years and our player of the season, to the point whereby we sign one less defender to give him that "pathway" would be a crazy risk. With Carter you could understand allowing him to fill a gap, he has always seemed shaky at Championship level but he has had a second successful loan spell in League 1 so it would be a more calculated risk. 

Who has ever said Phillips should fill the void of Lenihan? has anyone? 

Carter should start has our 3rd choice now with Philips as 4th choice for me

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Likewise Vale, he may have done well against kids in defence but he struggled in non league last season on loan and barely scored. He may come through this season, he might come through in 2 or 3 seasons or equally he may never come through at Championship level. If he does this season it should be a bonus, not something we pre-plan to the point of assuming he will and refraining from signing a player.

Did you see his spell at Halifax? how do you know he struggle there? 

Vale would be my 3rd choice striker behind Gallagher and a new signing for the 9 role. 

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Garrett again may well be a talent but he has never played senior football, and we have lost Rothwell, Johnson and Davenport from a position that I already saw us as a bit light of quality in. We need 2 or 3 in, if Garrett breaks through as well, bonus.

Did Buckley or Travis go out on loan before breaking through here? no they didn't. Plus I also said that we should sign 2 centre midfielders this season didn't I?