Transfer Window - COMPLETE. Where’s Gregg?

[Torgeir]

2 hours ago, tomphil said:

It would be handy if Gallagher and Dack could strike up an understanding.

That would work because Dack is such an intelligent footballer. 

My biggest grief with Gallagher is that he very seldom chooses the easy pass but constantly runs himself into trouble. He has many attributes to make him a good striker at this level, and will probably benefit from JDT being a former (intelligent) striker himself. 

[Exiled_Rover]

2 hours ago, tomphil said:

Big money for their favs/signings/ex Boro boys and naff all for lads coming through by looks of it.

Mowbray loved his pecking order and seniority dictating things.

Resigning Downing when he skipped all of pre-season was criminal.

Signing his mate's son, Pears, warranted a sacking. 

[47er]

53 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

I don’t thing anyone in here knows what that is and / or how sensible it is.

Nobody ever claimed to know, just drew conclusions from the players who were unwilling to sign a new contract.

Not rocket science is it?

i do accept that having a crap manager din't help either.

[eire3382]

Really hard to say how any player currently at the club will get on in the new system. Primarily because we don’t know what it will look like. Gally deserves a chance in his preferred position and see what he can do . I can’t say how he will get on. The only prediction I will make is Diaz won’t be here come the start of the season. So it’s all about how much of that money we can spend from his sale.

[Roverinbelfast]

Not sure if he's been mentioned on here, but personally I think Assal at afc wimbledon would be a great signing. 

[roversfan99]

14 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well he has been wasted out wide for 3 years under Mowbray. Mowbray has to take full responsibility for wasting him out wide. When he plays up front like Boro away or Preston away he score goals. 

I said we need a new striker if Ben Brereton Diaz leaves otherwise for me we don't. 

I'm looking forward to seeing Sam Gallagher under Jon Dahl Tomasson's reign who will play up front

Exactly. No wonder Gallagher had a big smile on his face when JDT shake his hand  

 

8 hours ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

Gallagher would be have been a decent shout in a 4-4-2 big guy, little guy scenario.  He'll work hard, chase things down and maybe get you 10 goals a season. 

That type of player may suit JDT and his pressing game...Gallagher won't suddenly become a 20 goal plus machine though.

Rovers issue under Mowbray was goals from other areas - notably midfield/set pieces etc.  

Adding goals through the team may be more beneficial than spending (relative) fortunes on an out an out scorer.

 

6 hours ago, Angry_Pirate said:

Gallagher has (officially) been a 1 in 5 goalscorer under Mowbray DESPITE him playing 80% of games on the right wing. (That's 23 goals in 118 league games with Mowbray's tactical nonsense).

Those saying that he can't make a jump from basically a guaranteed 9 a season to almost double that (15 to 20 range) if played at CF, are probably just fundamentally negative towards Gallagher.

Dolan and Buckley scored (best guess) 4 goals in 40 games combined as the "False 9" last season, Gallagher would walk into triple that number -That's obvious.

Gallagher could easily be a 1 in 3 scorer as a 9 in a top half team. 15 goals should be his minimum target. 20+ if BBD leaves and Gally becomes the Penalty taker.

I personally am not convinced that being played "wide" massively impeded his ability to score goals. It was either towards the side of a 3 or as part of essentially a front 2 with Buckley as sort of an attacking midfielder/striker hybrid. It isn't like hes playing out wide in an old fashioned 4-4-2. strikers and wide men are very fluid in modern formations.

I suspect that the key to whether he can "score goals" depends on what sort of numbers we expect. Extrapolating goals in the way you have done @Angry_Pirate is based on massive assumptions which to me seem like too much of a logic leap. 15 as a minimum (would love to be proven wrong) seems very ambitious for a striker who lacks a goalscoring instinct. 10 players including Brereton got 15 or more last season, so not thinking that Gallagher is capable of being in the top 10 goalscorers in the league is not being "fundamentally negative."

I think the expectations of @Wing Wizard Windy Miller are most realistic. Gallagher scored 11 in a team that played an old fashioned 4-4-2 under Coyle with Conway and sometimes Marshall wide with a partner, so 1 in 4. In general, I don't think he is much if any more effective even when he does play centrally, it highlights further major flaws such as hold up, link up play, winning headers etc and his goalscoring potential doesn't seem to change much if at all. @chaddyrovers highlighted 2 games (he was not generally good in either game mentioned, especially at Boro, aside from his goals) but they are not examples of his general performance level as a striker, and he also had effective performances from wide, notably at home v Cardiff and Swansea. If he was our main number 9 for a season, which I wouldn't be comfortable, my guess would be that he would get 10-12 goals. It all comes down to what "he will score goals as a number 9" specifically means, obviously literally he will, but how many?

I also don't like the assertion that anyone is just being "negative" as I don't think that is a constructive argument.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 

 

I personally am not convinced that being played "wide" massively impeded his ability to score goals. It was either towards the side of a 3 or as part of essentially a front 2 with Buckley as sort of an attacking midfielder/striker hybrid. It isn't like hes playing out wide in an old fashioned 4-4-2. strikers and wide men are very fluid in modern formations.

I suspect that the key to whether he can "score goals" depends on what sort of numbers we expect. Extrapolating goals in the way you have done @Angry_Pirate is based on massive assumptions which to me seem like too much of a logic leap. 15 as a minimum (would love to be proven wrong) seems very ambitious for a striker who lacks a goalscoring instinct. 10 players including Brereton got 15 or more last season, so not thinking that Gallagher is capable of being in the top 10 goalscorers in the league is not being "fundamentally negative."

I think the expectations of @Wing Wizard Windy Miller are most realistic. Gallagher scored 11 in a team that played an old fashioned 4-4-2 under Coyle with Conway and sometimes Marshall wide with a partner, so 1 in 4. In general, I don't think he is much if any more effective even when he does play centrally, it highlights further major flaws such as hold up, link up play, winning headers etc and his goalscoring potential doesn't seem to change much if at all. @chaddyrovers highlighted 2 games (he was not generally good in either game mentioned, especially at Boro, aside from his goals) but they are not examples of his general performance level as a striker, and he also had effective performances from wide, notably at home v Cardiff and Swansea. If he was our main number 9 for a season, which I wouldn't be comfortable, my guess would be that he would get 10-12 goals. It all comes down to what "he will score goals as a number 9" specifically means, obviously literally he will, but how many?

I also don't like the assertion that anyone is just being "negative" as I don't think that is a constructive argument.

Interesting. I'm completely of the opposite opinion. Strikers score goals between the sticks. Starting wide of the sticks is a hindrance. Shearer, Ronaldo, Inzaghi some of the poachers that come to mind and all say the same things. Stand between the sticks and get yourself a goal. Having to run in from the left wing to get there can only hinder that process. 

Goals towards the back end of the season, Preston, Derby etc. he's stood between the posts in the 6 yard box. He doesn't have the game to score from wide.

[joey_big_nose]

2 hours ago, eire3382 said:

Really hard to say how any player currently at the club will get on in the new system. Primarily because we don’t know what it will look like. Gally deserves a chance in his preferred position and see what he can do . I can’t say how he will get on. The only prediction I will make is Diaz won’t be here come the start of the season. So it’s all about how much of that money we can spend from his sale.

Agree it's all a mystery.

If JDT goes 442 as suggested by those analytical reports I think he will be a bit confused by Gallagher. Gallys physique screams a player whose attacking style is 70% back to goal linking up play, 30% running into the box to get on the end of crosses (great for 442). But his way of playing is actually 100% running with the ball at feet (despite not being very good at dribbling) It's just so weird. And not great for 442.

[rigger]

6 minutes ago, renrag said:

And in 1954/55 Rovers had five forwards in double figures before New Years Day

You know it's not 1954. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by rigger

[Sparks Rover]

5 hours ago, Angry_Pirate said:

 

For comparison, Dolan has 7 goals in 71 appearances and Buckley has a staggering 1 in 17.5 ratio (7 goals in 123 games, or 4.5 years as a starter). Buckley has played about as much as Gallagher and many more minutes as the 9.

We need a proper clear out, Jon will sort it out.  I expect lots to leave maybe not this window but he won't put up with stats like that and to think many on here think that's more than acceptable 🙈

[chaddyrovers]

6 hours ago, Mellor Rover said:

Budget isn't anything to do with the structure though.

I don't see Rovers paying one player at 30k or something but keeping it sensible

4 hours ago, booth said:

Have we learnt nothing from January?

New head coach here now who will play a striker up front. Lets see from now. Plus the head coach is a striker So I am sure he can teach the strikers a thing or 2. 

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

 

 

I personally am not convinced that being played "wide" massively impeded his ability to score goals. It was either towards the side of a 3 or as part of essentially a front 2 with Buckley as sort of an attacking midfielder/striker hybrid. It isn't like hes playing out wide in an old fashioned 4-4-2. strikers and wide men are very fluid in modern formations.

I suspect that the key to whether he can "score goals" depends on what sort of numbers we expect. Extrapolating goals in the way you have done @Angry_Pirate is based on massive assumptions which to me seem like too much of a logic leap. 15 as a minimum (would love to be proven wrong) seems very ambitious for a striker who lacks a goalscoring instinct. 10 players including Brereton got 15 or more last season, so not thinking that Gallagher is capable of being in the top 10 goalscorers in the league is not being "fundamentally negative."

I think the expectations of @Wing Wizard Windy Miller are most realistic. Gallagher scored 11 in a team that played an old fashioned 4-4-2 under Coyle with Conway and sometimes Marshall wide with a partner, so 1 in 4. In general, I don't think he is much if any more effective even when he does play centrally, it highlights further major flaws such as hold up, link up play, winning headers etc and his goalscoring potential doesn't seem to change much if at all. @chaddyrovers highlighted 2 games (he was not generally good in either game mentioned, especially at Boro, aside from his goals) but they are not examples of his general performance level as a striker, and he also had effective performances from wide, notably at home v Cardiff and Swansea. If he was our main number 9 for a season, which I wouldn't be comfortable, my guess would be that he would get 10-12 goals. It all comes down to what "he will score goals as a number 9" specifically means, obviously literally he will, but how many?

I also don't like the assertion that anyone is just being "negative" as I don't think that is a constructive argument.

Gallagher give a solid performance as a number 9 striker. A former Rovers striker Danny Graham praised his performance at Boro away. His performance at PNE was good, but he is striker so play him there. Lets see what Gallagher and to be honest the entire team under Jon Dahl Tomasson. Gallagher will be challenging Brereton if he stays or a new striker and Jack Vale. I think he can get behind 12 to 15 goals a season if he plays all season as a striker 

[TimmyJimmy]

You've all got me thinking about what makes a good striker (aside the obvious "scores goals"). I like Gallagher. Of course there's things he's not good at, only the Exceptionals of this world, your Shearers, your Henrys, can do it all.

If a goal is scored from way outside the box we put it in the 'Worldie' category, but by definition these are rare.

If a goal comes from a player gliding his way through from way outside the box we again applaud and say 'Worldie'.

These are all very unusual styles of goal scoring. The majority of strikers own the box and through good vision and good movement stick it in the net from balls fed into them.

My point is that Gallagher isn't in the Shearer 'can do it all' category and relies on service, usually from out wide.

Fix the problem of wingers playing on the wrong wing and players doing so many step overs that they make themselves dizzy and Gallagher will score goals.

The problem in my eyes is purely down to balls into the box not whether Gallagher can convert them.

True he can't trap a bag of cement but neither could Kevin Davies and he went on the have an international career.

JDT obviously knows this (football 101) and that will be the problem he fixes first IMO. Gallagher or BBD in the centre matters less,  again IMO.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, Mellor Rover said:

Interesting. I'm completely of the opposite opinion. Strikers score goals between the sticks. Starting wide of the sticks is a hindrance. Shearer, Ronaldo, Inzaghi some of the poachers that come to mind and all say the same things. Stand between the sticks and get yourself a goal. Having to run in from the left wing to get there can only hinder that process. 

Goals towards the back end of the season, Preston, Derby etc. he's stood between the posts in the 6 yard box. He doesn't have the game to score from wide.

Before the last woman's World Cup the English centre forward was running all over the place but hardly scoring any goals. Neville took her to one side and said “ Imagine two lines down the pitch parallel to the edge of the 6 yard box. When we have the ball in their half I don’t want to see you outside of that zone at any time “. 
After that she couldn’t stop scoring.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[islander200]

5 hours ago, booth said:

Have we learnt nothing from January?

I have.We butted heads in the January transfer window over our failure to bring in another front man.

You were definitely right and hopefully we will be bringing in a couple of goalscores this window 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, rigger said:

You know it's not 1954. 

Yeah but wasn’t it great when the goals were flying in ? And McEvoy, two 4 goal performances and then  three hat tricks and Fred Pickering, three hat tricks, that’s in the 63-64 alone. When did we last have two players in the same team both as prolific as that ? 
Anybody ask me which was Rovers best ever team ? That team.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[rigger]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Yeah but wasn’t it great when the goals were flying in ? And McEvoy, two 4 goal performances and then  three hat tricks and Fred Pickering, three hat tricks, that’s in the 63-64 alone. When did we last have two players in the same team both as prolific as that ? 
Anybody ask me which was Rovers best ever team ? That team.

My comment was a skit of a comment made by Mowbray last season.

[bazza]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Yeah but wasn’t it great when the goals were flying in ? And McEvoy, two 4 goal performances and then  three hat tricks and Fred Pickering, three hat tricks, that’s in the 63-64 alone. When did we last have two players in the same team both as prolific as that ? 
Anybody ask me which was Rovers best ever team ? That team.

Lovely nostalgia but that team didn't win the title.

Lovely to watch Mooney, Crossan, Briggs, Quigley, Langton in 1954 as well as Ferguson, McEvoy, Pickering, Douglas, Harrison in 1964 but............

[Andy]

3 hours ago, renrag said:

And in 1954/55 Rovers had five forwards in double figures before New Years Day

To be fair, every player smoked, drank and every match finished 54-34.

Not really comparable.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 minute ago, bazza said:

Lovely nostalgia but that team didn't win the title.

Lovely to watch Mooney, Crossan, Briggs, Quigley, Langton in 1954 as well as Ferguson, McEvoy, Pickering, Douglas, Harrison in 1964 but............

We needed Jack to be born a decade or two earlier. That 1964 team just needed a couple of defenders brought in. The forward line was the best in the league bar none.

[Rochdale_rover]

Transfer market starting to wake up in the championship.

Hopefully some new arrivals soon .

Anyone heard any whispers 

Woodrow a good signing for Luton. 

So is woodman for the nobbers

Edited June 21, 2022 by Rochdale_rover

[Sparks Rover]

31 minutes ago, Rochdale_rover said:

Transfer market starting to wake up in the championship.

Hopefully some new arrivals soon .

Anyone heard any whispers 

Woodrow a good signing for Luton. 

So is woodman for the nobbers

Knowing Rovers they will make a big fanfare for 2 new defenders and it will turn out to be Nyambe and Lenihan who couldn't get sorted anywhere else....2 new bodies in the building 💪

[chaddyrovers]

33 minutes ago, Rochdale_rover said:

Anyone heard any whispers 

Rovers are one of these clubs

Norwich City eye Sorinola as Williams replacement if they can beat three Championship suitors (teamtalk.com) 

Rovers was interested in Jake Clarke-Salter before he signed for QPR

Jake Clarke-Salter set to join QPR on free transfer after leaving Chelsea following two appearances in 14 years | The Sun

 

[neophox]

Davenport is the type of player JDT wants in midfeld, combative and running all day. Anders Christiansen was that type of player at Malmoe and Travis is the first one but we are missing a replacement if Travis is injured.

[neophox]

£4m is no problem...wages would...

thats why we could buy promising talent with low wages.

[roversfan99]

4 hours ago, Mellor Rover said:

Interesting. I'm completely of the opposite opinion. Strikers score goals between the sticks. Starting wide of the sticks is a hindrance. Shearer, Ronaldo, Inzaghi some of the poachers that come to mind and all say the same things. Stand between the sticks and get yourself a goal. Having to run in from the left wing to get there can only hinder that process. 

Goals towards the back end of the season, Preston, Derby etc. he's stood between the posts in the 6 yard box. He doesn't have the game to score from wide.

My point is specific to Gallagher though in that I don't think the likelihood of him scoring increases much when he plays either as a central striker or as a "wide forward."

I look last season, he got 9 often playing wide, some were central like the 2 you mention and v Boro, he scored v Cardiff and Swansea when he was coming from wide, against Boro at home he was as a wide striker. He got 8 the season before again often from wide. The season before that he got 6 and he played central more that season than in the last 2. He got 11 in more games (no injures unlike the last 2 seasons) predominately playing in a front 2 with 2 wide men in his initial spell. 

Most goals are obviously between the posts in general but those players you mention were all masters at sniffing out and taking chances. I do think that those sort of central poachers are less common and there seems to be more wide strikers like Salah, Mane, Son etc who often outscore the middle attacker. I do think Gallagher is moderately more suited to playing central but there isn't much difference in his effectiveness/ineffectiveness either way and indeed the one thing I am sure of is that I don't want to go into a season with him as our main striker. 

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I don't see Rovers paying one player at 30k or something but keeping it sensible

New head coach here now who will play a striker up front. Lets see from now. Plus the head coach is a striker So I am sure he can teach the strikers a thing or 2. 

Gallagher give a solid performance as a number 9 striker. A former Rovers striker Danny Graham praised his performance at Boro away. His performance at PNE was good, but he is striker so play him there. Lets see what Gallagher and to be honest the entire team under Jon Dahl Tomasson. Gallagher will be challenging Brereton if he stays or a new striker and Jack Vale. I think he can get behind 12 to 15 goals a season if he plays all season as a striker 

Graham isn't going to criticise a friend on national radio is he?! Like I said, I watched the full game and his whole round game was typically poor but he did score a great goal in that game.

I don't think your expectations of his likely goal tally if he plays regularly as a striker are too dissimilar to mine, I would suggest 10-12 personally and I think that tallies more with history, perhaps even on the generous side. 

I am also not sure that Tomasson being a striker (with different attributes) makes a huge difference either, people often expect a former player to be better with players in that position but it seldom works out like that.