Transfer Window - COMPLETE. Where’s Gregg?

[TheWeasel]

It's never good to lose 3 starters on a free. But that's the championship, largely the same calibre of players swapping and changing clubs every few years wherever they'll get the highest wages. We don't have the wage structure to compete with that if you look at the obscene wages other clubs in our division have. But I think over the past few years, it's proven with some of the teams who've been promoted you just need to think outside the box a little bit and look at more niche transfers. Worked for Brentford, worked for Norwich, worked for Huddersfield a few years back. 

 

Average championship teams signing players from other average championship teams ultimately achieves average results. If Broughton and Tomasson can think outside the box a little bit I'm not worried about losing championship calibre players which is what Lenihan, Nyambe and Rothwell are. We can do better.

[RoverDom]

33 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Genuine question - does anyone feel any sort of emotional attachment to the players these days?

Bentley, Nelson and Samba were my last ones. Whilst my bet was still live Diaz but as soon as goal number 20 went I stopped caring so much 🤣

[Sparks Rover]

13 minutes ago, Tricky said:

 the risk is getting £20m for BBD and still having most of it left after a deadline failed transfer 

Tesco will see that as job done.

[bluebruce]

2 minutes ago, Neal said:

There are players out there if you look hard enough. I thought Isiah Jones (RB) was one of the more impressive players I saw last year who Boro signed from Tooting & Mitcham, now linked with West Ham for 15 mill. We don't need to spend big to replace these players, just cast our net far and wide. Hopefully GB helps with this. 

Absolutely there are. But in the price bracket we are operating in, it's really hard to know if they're up to Championship level until they play for a season. We already know Nyambe is up to Championship level. I'd say he's one of the better 8ish RBs in this league, some might disagree but I'd be stunned if any significant number of us think he just isn't up to this level at all.

Since it's unlikely we can afford a proven player at this level, it would be far better to keep Nyambe, sign our 'Tooting & Mitcham' type future replacement and let them understudy. They'll break past him if they're good enough, then sell a (contracted) Nyambe for actual money. People need to stop acting like losing these valuable players for nothing is totally fine.

My original point though of course is just that it doesn't matter how good another RB we definitely can't buy or loan is.

[1864roverite]

If Nyambe is or was as good as some claim he would be a wanted player and rovers would have received bid after bid as with Lenihan they haven’t !

 

[bluebruce]

42 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Genuine question - does anyone feel any sort of emotional attachment to the players these days?

Maybe it's just me and the standard being so poor - I used to love Tugay, Emerton (for all his faults!) etc.

This lot are mostly just replaceable cloggers in my eyes - nobody to get attached to. You don't feel like you're watching anything special.

At a stretch I'd say I'm fond of Travis. 

Honestly, and people will disagree with me but it's simply not up to them, Dolan. Love his work rate but most of all I love his magic lil feet. The only player in the last two seasons who I would get genuinely excited whenever he gets the ball. Seem like a genuinely good lad too.

Nobody pop up with arguments please about how you don't rate him, not enough end product blah blah. I've seen them all and I'm not interested, I really like him and that was the question.

That said I don't get too attached to anyone since Friedel left. I always thought he would never leave us for money, then he clearly did. Turned out he was in a bit of financial trouble tbf, but since then I've known any player can leave at any time, especially for money.

[bluebruce]

4 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

If Nyambe is or was as good as some claim he would be a wanted player and rovers would have received bid after bid as with Lenihan they haven’t !

 

Like the bid we rejected for him last summer, then.

[Neal]

5 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Absolutely there are. But in the price bracket we are operating in, it's really hard to know if they're up to Championship level until they play for a season. We already know Nyambe is up to Championship level. I'd say he's one of the better 8ish RBs in this league, some might disagree but I'd be stunned if any significant number of us think he just isn't up to this level at all.

Since it's unlikely we can afford a proven player at this level, it would be far better to keep Nyambe, sign our 'Tooting & Mitcham' type future replacement and let them understudy. They'll break past him if they're good enough, then sell a (contracted) Nyambe for actual money. People need to stop acting like losing these valuable players for nothing is totally fine.

My original point though of course is just that it doesn't matter how good another RB we definitely can't buy or loan is.

In totally agree with you. It's definitely not fine to watch assets leave for free and there's only one man to blame for that. There's a lot coping mechanism psychology going on and I think that's fair because there's nothing that we can do except for hope for the best in our future transfers. 

[Admiral Nelsen]

5 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

That said I don't get too attached to anyone since Friedel left. I always thought he would never leave us for money, then he clearly did. Turned out he was in a bit of financial trouble tbf, but since then I've known any player can leave at any time, especially for money.

 

Yes - if I remember correctly he'd just been made bankrupt with his US based academy going belly up. Villa then offered to double his wages to £50k a year, which in his late 30s was always going to be tough to turn down. 

[ben_the_beast]

Rothwell, Nyambe and Lenihan. I think it's reasonable to say they could fetch around £2million each if they'd been tied into contracts. More if there suddenly became a few clubs interested which can happen with hot streaks of form, market conditions, transfer window deadlines. 

Whether they are setting the world alight or not. We've lost assets that had significant value given both our finances and the way we're trying to model the club. It is very simple. Player power rules. We'd tried to see who would blink first which is a very high stakes game to play. Adequate management would have been a deadline midway through last summer for them to re-sign and it they didn't, they should have been sold.

You can rewind it further than that too. In reality once between 18-24 months left on a deal we should have had much more urgency around the situation. If talks weren't progressing, then moves for replacements should have begun. The club has been run with a short term attitude of meeting financials. Not to mention the mad contracts given out to Tony's old boys club a couple of years back, all of whom added no value to the asset sheet. 

[JHRover]

36 minutes ago, unsall said:

Not saying we are run well, my point is you were saying we should be run like Derby, you got that one wrong, now saying we should be run like ‘Boro who probably are sailing close to the wind with FFP, I’ll wait till end of transfer window and see where we are before making any predictions.

Not sure I did get it wrong. There was no problem with Derby until Mel Morris suffered health issues and decided he wasn't going to put any more money in.

I keep hearing this 'sailing close to the wind' stuff. Middlesbrough, Stoke, Bristol City, all have lost way above and beyond the limits on FFP and none of them have been sanctioned whilst spending more than us. Its a myth, a convenient tool for Waggott and the Venky entourage to spout off about as an excuse for them stopping spending again. In my opinion of course.

The only clubs to suffer from it are those run by idiots - Us, Cardiff, Birmingham, Reading. No coincidence that the biggest spenders and those with clued up owners keep on getting away with it.

[phili]

38 minutes ago, unsall said:

Not saying we are run well, my point is you were saying we should be run like Derby, you got that one wrong, now saying we should be run like ‘Boro who probably are sailing close to the wind with FFP, I’ll wait till end of transfer window and see where we are before making any predictions.

We are run the same way as Derby, just Mel Morris had had enough of pumping £20-30m a year into the club.

[bigbrandjohn]

27 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

Bentley, Nelson and Samba were my last ones. Whilst my bet was still live Diaz but as soon as goal number 20 went I stopped caring so much 🤣

Shearer, Duff, Keith Newton and Eamon Rogers for me. 🤔

[bluebruce]

5 minutes ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

Yes - if I remember correctly he'd just been made bankrupt with his US based academy going belly up. Villa then offered to double his wages to £50k a year, which in his late 30s was always going to be tough to turn down. 

The way I remembered it, he went bankrupt further down the line. At least, I only realised years after, and it softened my tears a bit. I was never mad at him leaving though, I was hurt lol. Whether it was before or after though, clearly he felt he needed the extra finance. We had helped with his academy though, albeit not financially I don't think (beyond his healthy but beatable wage).

[bluebruce]

5 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Not sure I did get it wrong. There was no problem with Derby until Mel Morris suffered health issues and decided he wasn't going to put any more money in.

I keep hearing this 'sailing close to the wind' stuff. Middlesbrough, Stoke, Bristol City, all have lost way above and beyond the limits on FFP and none of them have been sanctioned whilst spending more than us. Its a myth, a convenient tool for Waggott and the Venky entourage to spout off about as an excuse for them stopping spending again. In my opinion of course.

The only clubs to suffer from it are those run by idiots - Us, Cardiff, Birmingham, Reading. No coincidence that the biggest spenders and those with clued up owners keep on getting away with it.

There were problems with Derby before that, some of their points deduction was for FFP violations, so without the administration they were still going to lose points. Clubs have been sanctioned, it's not a myth. Hell, we have been sanctioned before. You used to be able to work around it, and I agree we should have done that a lot more in days gone by if the owners were as willing as has been claimed. But these days the league don't take kindly to trying to skirt the rules. It's probably still possible to get away with it, but it's now a risk, one that could cost more than it's worth. None of those clubs you named have gone up. There's no point throwing loads of money at it anyway until you've got the right management to spend it properly, hopefully we do.

[Exiled_Rover]

6 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

The way I remembered it, he went bankrupt further down the line. At least, I only realised years after, and it softened my tears a bit. I was never mad at him leaving though, I was hurt lol. Whether it was before or after though, clearly he felt he needed the extra finance. We had helped with his academy though, albeit not financially I don't think (beyond his healthy but beatable wage).

Friedel pissed me off on Five Live a while ago when he didn't correct the interviewer - said interviewer seemed intent on focusing on his time at Liverpool and Spurs, rather than y'know the bulk of his career and the reason he was considered a success. 'Big club' bias, as per. 

Never had any time for Brad after that. 

[Butty]

54 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

Bentley, Nelson and Samba were my last ones. Whilst my bet was still live Diaz but as soon as goal number 20 went I stopped caring so much 🤣

Rhodes!

[Wheelton Blue]

47 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

If Nyambe is or was as good as some claim he would be a wanted player and rovers would have received bid after bid as with Lenihan they haven’t !

 

...or perhaps, suitors, who knowing how disfunctional our 'exec team' is, were just biding their time until they could get them for free.

[SuperBrfc]

1 hour ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Genuine question - does anyone feel any sort of emotional attachment to the players these days?

Maybe it's just me and the standard being so poor - I used to love Tugay, Emerton (for all his faults!) etc.

This lot are mostly just replaceable cloggers in my eyes - nobody to get attached to. You don't feel like you're watching anything special.

At a stretch I'd say I'm fond of Travis. 

I was just about to post something similar on another thread. The last one for me was Pedersen when he left in 2013. I appreciated Rhodes' contribution. A nice guy and his goals kept the club ticking over during bleak times. Similar case with Dack really, but I didn't/don't feel towards them like the players of the past.

In terms of the out of contract trio, I honestly felt nothing upon hearing they were leaving. Saw the Nyambe story this morning and felt nothing. No sadness, no disappointment, no regret that we didn't keep any of them. They are bang average and replaceable, for me.

True, they played their part in our charge up the table last season, but it's also true that they have played their part in our capitulations and dismal runs of form over the years too. I wanted us to keep Rothwell initially, but having seen him disappear post January when the Bournemouth move didn't happen, it's good riddance for me.

What gets to me is that they have been allowed to walk away for nothing and we have now given ourselves three extra issues in having to find their replacements. Add that to the work that is already needed on the squad and it becomes an even bigger challenge.

Can we replace them with better? Before Broughton and JDT arrived I wasn't confident on that front. However I'm now hopeful we can do as I believe they have a bit of imagination about them and I expect they will have targets in mind. We need to get the ball rolling as soon as possible though.

[Irish_Rover]

Duff leaving was a kick in the teeth, but to be honest it was kind of inevitable that he would be going on to a bigger stage. He pretty much destroyed Spain by himself during the previous summers world cup and then backed it up by just ripping the piss out of half the league the following season.
 

Having said that, I think the biggest gut punch for me wasn't a player but a manager leaving: Mark Hughes.

I was devastated when he left, with him in charge we were regularly between 6th to 9th in the prem, the rare occasion even having a sneaky look at the top 4. If ever there was a manager that made the team better than the sum of its parts was him, I knew we would be starting on a downward trajectory when he exited stage left.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Irish_Rover

[SuperBrfc]

31 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Friedel pissed me off on Five Live a while ago when he didn't correct the interviewer - said interviewer seemed intent on focusing on his time at Liverpool and Spurs, rather than y'know the bulk of his career and the reason he was considered a success. 'Big club' bias, as per. 

Never had any time for Brad after that. 

He should have corrected the interviewer, for sure, but that is Five Live all over. If they could get away with only focusing on the 'big 6', they would do that.

Incidentally, I remember hearing John Motson once make a disparaging comment about Rovers on Five Live at the height of the Berg, Appleton, Shebby chaos. They were doing a piece on Rovers where Shebby called in and I think the two Ian's might have done too. Motson said something along the lines of "treating Blackburn for the size of club they are".

The gist of his view was that Rovers were never one of the big clubs, they were at best a mid table club in the Premier League, they were relegated due to owners who don't know what they are doing and that we (the press, Rovers fans etc) are making too much out of it (I.e our decline). I haven't been a fan of his ever since then.

I wouldn't let Brad's interview bother me too much. I've heard him say, more than once, on various podcast interviews and to the LT that his 8 years at Rovers were the best 8 years of his life, not just his career. He loved his time here and it shows when he talks about us.

[Miller11]

The year option fallback has been an absolute curse in these instances I think. Clearly all three players were happy to negotiate 2 summers ago, but Waggott showed no urgency because of the ability to penny pinch for 12 months. Keeping them around for an extra year on their low wages in the same period we slashed Holtby, Downing, Bennett and all the rest off the wage bill is going to show a massive saving on the wage bill for last season. Big tick in the box for Waggott and Cheston.

Meanwhile our players feel undervalued, but the negotiations stop at the clubs end because covid. Reading between the lines, the negotiations were mainly the club trotting out the usual “we’ve done all we can” message.

Lenihan has seen his predecessor as captain earn a couple of million over the space of 2 years for hanging around a bit and occasionally turning out for Wigan and Fleetwood.

Nyambe has seen Davenport, a player of a similar age who failed to make the grade at a big club come in and earn double his money to mostly sit on the bench.

Rothwell May be a bit different and likely always saw us as a stepping stone. He stepped up to us from Oxford for a minimal fee as there was no way he was committing his future to the long term, and increased his earnings accordingly. Done the same again, except Oxford we’re smart enough to get a fee.

Particularly in the case of Lenihan and Nyambe, the pleading of poverty probably isn’t going to wash. They’ve been here long enough to see some bad players pick up good money. I doubt either of their demands were outrageous, but they know their worth. Whether it’s us getting our house in order finally, or another spate of cost cutting, why should they let it harm their earning potential?

So much talk about their lack of loyalty… the year option really isn’t a sign of good faith, it’s a pretty unloyal tactic from the club. Maybe if we had people running the show with a bit more ability and integrity it wouldn’t be an issue.
We have to sell Brereton this summer. If we end up in the same position with him in 12 months it’s even worse given the fee he cost and the relative short time he’s actually been any use.

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, bluebruce said:

There were problems with Derby before that, some of their points deduction was for FFP violations, so without the administration they were still going to lose points. Clubs have been sanctioned, it's not a myth. Hell, we have been sanctioned before. You used to be able to work around it, and I agree we should have done that a lot more in days gone by if the owners were as willing as has been claimed. But these days the league don't take kindly to trying to skirt the rules. It's probably still possible to get away with it, but it's now a risk, one that could cost more than it's worth. None of those clubs you named have gone up. There's no point throwing loads of money at it anyway until you've got the right management to spend it properly, hopefully we do.

Who said anything about throwing loads of money at it?

Just paying our academy grads competitive wages and dealing with the extensions of contracts in a timely and professional manner would be a start.

Derby's issues with FFP came because they tried fiddling their accounts and got caught. Not sure we'd need to do that just to pay our lot more.

How much off the wage bill in the last 12 months?

This is Venky cost cutting. Nothing more, nothing less. Dangerous game in this league. 

[booth]

3 hours ago, TheRevAshton said:

Middlesbrough have confirmed the Lenihan signing on their Twitter, hurts to see him in that kit despite how replaceable I think he is.

We need some good news around here!

Sod Lenihan, can we get Van Hecke back?

[Exiled_Rover]

16 minutes ago, Irish_Rover said:

Duff leaving was a kick in the teeth, but to be honest it was kind of inevitable that he would be going on to a bigger stage. He pretty much destroyed Spain by himself during the previous summers world cup and then backed it up by just ripping the piss out of half the league the following season.
 

Having said that, I think the biggest gut punch for me wasn't a player but a manager leaving: Mark Hughes.

I was devastated when he left, with him in charge we were regularly between 6th to 9th in the prem, the rare occasion even having a sneaky look at the top 4. If ever there was a manager that made the team better than the sum of its parts was him, I knew we we would be starting on a downward trajectory when he exited stage left.

Duff was forced out, wasn't he?

I read a story that basically he was told his bags had been taken off the plane (I assume we were off somewhere for pre-season) cos Chelsea had met our valuation / his release clause and he had to speak to them. 

I gather he was pretty miffed about how it all went down.