Mowbray, the summer and beyond

[Herbie6590]

1 hour ago, Miller11 said:

I know a few questions got sent in specifically about his involvement at Rovers. Be interesting to see if they are asked!

Don't hold your breath...

[K-Hod]

Whilst it is a valid question in many ways to query who we will appoint if Mowbray leaves, if we are just to stick with Mowbray for eternity in the hope that he gets it right, I’d be asking what the point of it all is tbh. 

[bluebruce]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Can Venkys be trusted to do anything right, no, but if we cling onto someone purely to avoid the potential next case scenario, is there point even continuing at all?

The next case scenario is coming eventually anyway. No sense keeping the club on pause to stave it off.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, davulsukur said:

Exactly that. If we have to live in fear that Mowbray is the best we'll ever get, might as well sack it off entirely.

Whether you are for or against Mowbray is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things if he is literally the height of our ambition.

We can't live in fear forever because the day will come he moves on or retires or just needs a good break from management.

The scaremongers and snowflakes in our fanbase need to get to grips with this and understand others don't see why the club should have to dance to his tune until he decides to switch the music off.  It's about Blackburn Rovers not any individual and at some point to move forward for the club and him there'll have to be a parting of the ways.

I think most would like it to be an amicable one where we say thanks to each other and wish each other all the best. So those upstairs should be monitoring this season and last very closely and have a plan in place. Something a bit more dynamic than digging out the HSH unwanted list.

[BigUts]

4 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

This is worth a listen @Miller11

 

 

Just listened to this. I thought that this was a good listen and Craig comes across as a decent enough person. I know nothing about agents but they appear, a lot of the time, to be the scourge of football (i.e. taking money directly out of the game for their own gains and minute input). 

Myself and Craig share the relatively uncommon surname so maybe I'm a little less cynical in this regard.

Its certainly odd though that club still lean so heavily on HSH especially given the direct links to SEM, who if we are led to believe pulled the wool of the Rao's eyes in regards to the best interests of the club...!

[Jimmy612]

3 hours ago, K-Hod said:

Whilst it is a valid question in many ways to query who we will appoint if Mowbray leaves, if we are just to stick with Mowbray for eternity in the hope that he gets it right, I’d be asking what the point of it all is tbh. 

Absolutely agree, it's a horrible situation..... there's lots of examples of clubs parting ways with a 'safe pair of hands' in order to progress their ambitions as a club.  Brighton sacking Hughton was certainly seen as a risk, but Potter has done well....  Saints canning Adkins after two promotions was seen as madness until Pochettino proved himself.   There's probably plenty of examples in the Championship as well if anyone can be bothered to have a think.

So you roll the dice.... the problem with Rovers is that I would expect a shite appointment, purely based on the last 10 years and the lack of any kind of know-how throughout the senior management.  

Those on here saying 'anyone could do better than Mowbray' either have very short memories or haven't been paying any attention for the last decade.  Probably the same people that said anyone could do better than Bowyer, whilst totally underestimating the incompetence of our ownership.

[chaddyrovers]

On 21/03/2022 at 17:29, Bbrovers2288 said:

Jeez that’s an incredible stat mate, chaddy defend this one , no way you can 

You are correct that I can't defend that stat one bit. 

[chaddyrovers]

On 24/03/2022 at 13:01, K-Hod said:

Whilst it is a valid question in many ways to query who we will appoint if Mowbray leaves, if we are just to stick with Mowbray for eternity in the hope that he gets it right, I’d be asking what the point of it all is tbh. 

I think its a very good point you are making. If we don't make top 6 and playoff place this season then we need a change of manager/head coach and a fresh person in change with new ideas, new training methods and tactical approach will be needed 

On 24/03/2022 at 09:12, Herbie6590 said:

This is worth a listen @Miller11

 

 

Thanks for sharing this week

[chaddyrovers]

On 22/03/2022 at 10:23, rog of the rovers said:

Got me thinking, If Mowbray was to go, I'd see a real mixed bag of potential candidates. Likely someone from the following list.

 

The ''exiled Championship level" approach - Daniel Farke, Slaviska Jokanovic, Valerian Ismael.

The "we're bigger than you!" Championship approach - Neil Critchley, Mark Robins

The "can he make the step up from League One?" approach - Gareth Ainsworth, Ian Evatt, Kieran McKenna, Leam Richardson, Liam Manning

The "he's been round the block" Old Guard approach - Neil Warnock, Mick McCarthy, Chris Hughton, Steve Bruce

The "he's doing a good job in League Two" approach - Rob Edwards, Matt Taylor

The "Rovers connection" approach - Mark Hughes, Simon Grayson, Jason Wilcox, Billy McKinlay, Callum Davidson, Shay Given

The "he's part of the 'Golden Generation' entering management" approach - Wayne Rooney, John Terry, Ashley Cole, Jonathan Woodgate, Michael Carrick

The "well he's cheap and he's already here" approach - Mark Venus, David Lowe, Damien Johnson

The "he's 'tearing it up' in the Indian Super League" approach - Owen C0yle

The "where's Judan Ali?" approach - Judan Ali

The "hes a coach at a 'Big Club' and deserves his shot at the big time" approach - Ryan Mason

The "he's doing well in Scotland" approach -  Robbie Nielson

The "Ted Lasso" approach - Jim Curtin

The "just go and get Borussia Dortmund's B team coach" approach - Enrico Maaßen

The "he's going to the games anyway, he can just shout from the stands" approach - Birdy

 

interesting list that and some interesting potential candidates on there like Robbie Neilson, Neil Critchley, Mark Robins, Gareth Ainsworth. 

I would like to see Shay Given coming in as GK coach in the summer will his international and club experience plus his coaching experience. 

On 22/03/2022 at 10:37, JHRover said:

It will be one of Mark Venus, Damien Johnson, Nigel Adkins or Tony Pulis. If I'm correct on that - and I don't rate Mowbray as people well know - I would rather keep Mowbray than make a change.

The first two I think would be a disaster, Adkins would be similar at best and Pulis might be a slight improvement on results but would be horrific to watch.

All would be grateful for the job and would agree to work with the existing staff and structure.

If we are going to make a change there has to be ambition shown. But there won't be so there's no point.

I'd like nothing more than to be rid of Mowbray and his team and see a quality manager like Farke appointed but it just isn't going to happen here.

Why would Pulis maybe any sort of improvement on Mowbray? 

On 22/03/2022 at 11:08, Miller11 said:

Here is the HSH list…

Mark Robins

Craig Bellamy

Gary Holt

Sami Hyypia

Gregory Vignal

Tony Pulis

Graham Westley

Micky Mellon

Dave Challinor

Dean Keats

Fabrizio Ravanelli

Paul Jewell

Tony Philiskirk

Rob Edwards

And our previous three managers too, obviously.

 

what a mostly a shocking list. 

Only Robins and possible Edwards would be the only candidates I would look at. Maybe Bellamy could be option but depends whether he is over his mental health problems and the coaching staff he would have with him. 

I hope we look at other candidates that aren't with that agency 

On 22/03/2022 at 12:39, Miller11 said:

I’m amazed any of them still are. Their website currently looks like this…

Not what I’d expect from a company entrusted to broker deals worth millions.

Its been like that for over 12 months now.

On 22/03/2022 at 11:10, JoeH said:

Rob Edwards could be interesting with a DoF in place. Young manager doing well in League Two with a small budget. But other than there's very little to even slightly inspire here.

Can I asked you to explain why you think Rob Edwards could be interesting choice with a DoF in place? I've done some reading of articles about his coaching work and he has Forest Green Rovers at the top of the league 2 table. Would John Park be ideal DoF with him having done the role before. With Park in charge of Recruitment and Edwards has Head coach. 

[Upside Down]

12 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I think its a very good point you are making. If we don't make top 6 and playoff place this season then we need a change of manager/head coach and a fresh person in change with new ideas, new training methods and tactical approach will be needed 

If we aren't promoted this tear he needs to go.

We definitely need someone new in to shake things up and off a new perspective. 

Mowbray has done good with Rovers and certainly doesn't deserve some of the flack he gets from some, but it's time to part ways.

[lraC]

On 24/03/2022 at 15:34, BigUts said:

Just listened to this. I thought that this was a good listen and Craig comes across as a decent enough person. I know nothing about agents but they appear, a lot of the time, to be the scourge of football (i.e. taking money directly out of the game for their own gains and minute input). 

Myself and Craig share the relatively uncommon surname so maybe I'm a little less cynical in this regard.

Its certainly odd though that club still lean so heavily on HSH especially given the direct links to SEM, who if we are led to believe pulled the wool of the Rao's eyes in regards to the best interests of the club...!

Pulling wool over eyes is pretty apt, as that’s what the owners would like to do, when it come to the purchase of the club.

The badly advised, keep going back to the same stable and as has been said by a few people, these bad advisers, seem to be still lurking in the shadows at Ewood.

Its still hard to believe in my mind that it was Venkys money that bought the club in the first place and the great mystery as to why theY keep on funding us, could have answers buried deep back to how the original purchase was really funded.

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, Upside Down said:

If we aren't promoted this tear he needs to go.

We definitely need someone new in to shake things up and off a new perspective. 

Mowbray has done good with Rovers and certainly doesn't deserve some of the flack he gets from some, but it's time to part ways.

If he got top 6 then I would give him a new contract, But if he doesn't get playoff place then as I said we need a new manager/head coach with new ideas, new training ground methods and good tactical plus we keep bringing through the good academy players we have here

[rigger]

49 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

If he got top 6 then I would give him a new contract, But if he doesn't get playoff place then as I said we need a new manager/head coach with new ideas, new training ground methods and good tactical plus we keep bringing through the good academy players we have here

What I don't understand with this logic, is that we could get into 6th place by goal difference, and that would make Mowbray a keepable manager, or we finish seventh and that makes him a poor manager. He is either a good or a bad manager, regardless of where we finish.

[Herbie6590]

3 hours ago, lraC said:

Its still hard to believe in my mind that it was Venkys money that bought the club in the first place and the great mystery as to why theY keep on funding us, could have answers buried deep back to how the original purchase was really funded.

Playing this thought experiment through to its logical conclusion…why would “organisation X” provide money to enable  “organisation Y” to buy an asset over which “organisation X” had no explicit, direct, legal control ? 

That is a tad risky on the part of “organisation X” isn’t it ? 
 

[OldEwoodBlue]

Pasha the constant.

Kentaro fixer.

Brokered the Venky deal.

Works for Rovers. Works for Venkys. Works for.... only hires from his ex(?) SEM / Kentaro mates... hmmmm

Hired Coyle.

Never speaks yet everyone at Ewood, including Waggott, reports to him. Most senior person on the ground, representing "the owners".

The poison that runs through our club.

Nothing has changed. Nothing.

[Mattyblue]

Surely the final league position is the main barometer to a manager’s competency or otherwise?

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

Pasha the constant.

Kentaro fixer.

Brokered the Venky deal.

Works for Rovers. Works for Venkys. Works for.... only hires from his ex(?) SEM / Kentaro mates... hmmmm

Hired Coyle.

Never speaks yet everyone at Ewood, including Waggott, reports to him. Most senior person on the ground, representing "the owners".

The poison that runs through our club.

Nothing has changed. Nothing.

He remains one constant rather suspicious presence with i suspect fingers in a few pies.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, rigger said:

What I don't understand with this logic, is that we could get into 6th place by goal difference, and that would make Mowbray a keepable manager, or we finish seventh and that makes him a poor manager. He is either a good or a bad manager, regardless of where we finish.

Neither.

Just a very experienced second level plodder and always has been and mostly does what its said on the tin with what he has to work with.

One good season every 4 years, one bad one and rest of the time middle of the road, capable of over achieving for small spells and under achieving for slightly longer ones. Far more at home and much more comfortable plodding along in mid table and jiggling with the team every week to keep everyone happy.

Not driven or ruthless enough for promotion but very driven to maintain the status quo and his job.

Works for an ownership that seems very happy with this.

 

[lraC]

4 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

Playing this thought experiment through to its logical conclusion…why would “organisation X” provide money to enable  “organisation Y” to buy an asset over which “organisation X” had no explicit, direct, legal control ? 

That is a tad risky on the part of “organisation X” isn’t it ? 
 

It depends on how it was all positioned. When you see Balaji Rao and Anderson high fiving each other at a game and then learn about the global 11 investment fund, then no it doesn’t seem that risky at all. With the antics of the Rochina deal, the accusations of third part ownership with regards to the Formica deal, then the even bigger fiasco with the Myles Anderson premier league played contract, it becomes a total farce.

You have to bear in mind that the TV monies were big back then, despite them being even bigger now and also look at the value of the players on the books back then. A stable premier league team bringing all that in (and thinking no relegation existed  😂) was one hell of an investment for £40m.

If you became the owner of all that and didn’t put your own money up, it could become rather tempting.

Even Madame wasn’t afraid of going on record to say how she wanted entertaining football, when justifying the sacking of Allardyce and appointment of Kean. It was a real good sales job done on them back then.

Funny how we don’t hear a peep from them anymore isn’t it?

Edited March 27, 2022 by lraC

[lraC]

2 hours ago, SuperBrfc said:

Let's imagine a hypothetical scenario for a moment. "Organisation X" can't legally own a football club as it goes against the rules. "Organisation X" wants a football club so that it can pass its clients through that club, have free reign to do whatever it wants at that club but more importantly, wash dirty money through that club at any time without anybody being any the wiser.

"Organisation X" needs somebody to front the operation. Step forward "Organisation Y", or should I say, one member of the latter who has a little bit of interest in football. Let's call him "Person B". "Person B" is told that being the face of the operation would bring huge brand exposure for "Organisation Y" and that he would not have to do much at all once the club is purchased. "Organisation X" would take care of it all from that point onwards. All "Person B" has to do is convince "Organisation Y" that buying a football club is his desire and a good idea for "Brand Y".

He is also asked to stump up an initial sum of money to own a stake, a sum that he will get back within a couple of years. "Person B" is fully on board with the plan, promising that "Organisation X" will have direct control over the club, as long as he gets a regular cut from any dealings that take place.

After years of chaos and dodgy behaviour, "Organisation X" plays one of its biggest, most craftiest moves to fool the public and those within the football club further by ensuring a gentleman of Indian heritage is in place as the middle man to "the owners". Naturally, it is assumed that he is a family friend and adviser to "Person B" and "Organisation Y". However, a different picture emerges when you find out that he is actually a former employee of "Organisation X". He's the owners' representative, we're told. I believe that. But not the "owners" we are all being led to believe though.

Imagine if organisation X has a family member who he can convince people that he is a Myles better player than he really is. Sign him up, pay him Myles more money than he is really worth and then get the people in the know questioning why the money left the club. Said player could turn up at a non league club, dripping in gold and driving valuable cars,

If the fans of the club, spotted that the player was not up to scratch, then you could call up your friends in the media and get a nice little slot on a sports show to accuse the fans of not giving him a chance. A few tears here and there should do if anyone needs convincing of how awful these fans were for not giving him a chance.

After all these fans are a racist bunch too, so if they will stoop to that, then they will quite easily hound a top 5 premier league player out, leaving him to ply his trade in the sixth or seventh tier.

Edited March 27, 2022 by lraC

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, rigger said:

What I don't understand with this logic, is that we could get into 6th place by goal difference, and that would make Mowbray a keepable manager, or we finish seventh and that makes him a poor manager. He is either a good or a bad manager, regardless of where we finish.

A playoff place gives us the opportunity for promotion whilst 7th doesn't. 

Also given our position at Christmas finishing top 6 should be the minimum requirement. 

Outside the top 6 finish and I think we need a new manager/head coach to move us forward next season with new ideas, signing players, bringing through academy players and good tactical and man management skills. 

[bluebruce]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

A playoff place gives us the opportunity for promotion whilst 7th doesn't. 

Also given our position at Christmas finishing top 6 should be the minimum requirement. 

Outside the top 6 finish and I think we need a new manager/head coach to move us forward next season with new ideas, signing players, bringing through academy players and good tactical and man management skills. 

And what if we scraped into the playoffs on goal difference and then immediately surrendered meekly in the semis?

[simongarnerisgod]

13 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

And what if we scraped into the playoffs on goal difference and then immediately surrendered meekly in the semis?

god alone knows how he will set the team up,i imagine the bingo machine in which he picks his side will be spinning so fast you could  use it for generating electric

[roversfan99]

I don't get why scraping into the play offs would diminish the achievement at all, ultimately all that matters is where you finish, not by what sort of margin. If you win the league on GD, it doesn't make it any less impressive.

[rigger]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I don't get why scraping into the play offs would diminish the achievement at all, ultimately all that matters is where you finish, not by what sort of margin. If you win the league on GD, it doesn't make it any less impressive.

Read the post trail.