Mowbray, the summer and beyond

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, 1864roverite said:

Nathan Byrne last night showed he is a more than adequate replacement for Nyambe and he is available on a free transfer

Whenever I saw him play for Wigan I thought he was a top player at this level. 

[jim mk2]

So what went on at half time last night because Mowbray doesn't deserve any credit for that win after the way he set up the team and that appalling first half performance

There must have been a player revolt. It's the only explanation

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, jim mk2 said:

So what went on at half time last night because Mowbray doesn't deserve any credit for that win after the way he set up the team and that appalling first half performance

There must have been a player revolt. It's the only explanation

 

I assume it was along the lines of Trav, Lenihan and Dack saying 'this shit, Dacky's coming on and Sam's playing through the middle. Writing was on the wall when Dack wasn't warming up at half time.

[tomphil]

21 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Nathan Byrne last night showed he is a more than adequate replacement for Nyambe and he is available on a free transfer

Forget it we all know JRC is a shoe in next season followed by various midfielders and strikers filling in there in game.

[Displaced Rover]

53 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Forget it we all know JRC is a shoe in next season followed by various midfielders and strikers filling in there in game.

I hear Aynsley Pears can do a job at full back...

[arbitro]

I firmly believe that Mowbrays ego was pricked last night. The fact he got it badly wrong in the first half, the crowd chanting for him to sort it out, the alleged player revolt and the fact he sulked his way through the second half were all indicators to me that he had a cob on. His second half no show was almost childish.

[JHRover]

I may be reading too much into his interview and body language. But I would expect a manager that had just masterminded a turnaround from dire straits and getting beat and awful performance to good peformance, 3 goals and 3 points to be emboldened by that when dealing with the media afterwards.

I might expect him to try to take credit for the changes that turned the game. Or credit for getting stuck into the players at half time. I might expect him to at least spend some of the second half, especially when the game had been rescued and we were in the lead, to be back to his usual behaviour on the touchline.

The sulking in his seat for the full 45, combined with one of the most downbeat, miserable, exhausted looking interviews I have ever seen from a manager, especially after a win, suggests to me there is more to this. 

 

[Darwen Rover 007]

My thoughts (theories) on Mowbray from last night are...

1.  If he rollocked them and they turned it around surely he would be buzzing.

2.  I think there has been a revolt hence him behaving the way he did 2nd half / post match.

3.  Just doesn't make sense for him to behave as he has given tye points above.

Edited March 16, 2022 by Darwen Rover 007

[Nuttall is lost]

17 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I may be reading too much into his interview and body language. But I would expect a manager that had just masterminded a turnaround from dire straits and getting beat and awful performance to good peformance, 3 goals and 3 points to be emboldened by that when dealing with the media afterwards.

I might expect him to try to take credit for the changes that turned the game. Or credit for getting stuck into the players at half time. I might expect him to at least spend some of the second half, especially when the game had been rescued and we were in the lead, to be back to his usual behaviour on the touchline.

The sulking in his seat for the full 45, combined with one of the most downbeat, miserable, exhausted looking interviews I have ever seen from a manager, especially after a win, suggests to me there is more to this. 

 

He had a depressed far away look in his eyes, glazed over, contemplating life look.  The more goals we scored the more depressed he got.

He was ranting and raving at the players int he 1st half and just sat motionless in the 2nd.  Maybe he had been listening to Radiohead at half time.

[roversfan99]

12 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

It's doesn't like Mowbray is but we see in the summer.

Venkys have backed Mowbray and the club year after year. 

Cantwell is playing in midfield 3 at Bournemouth. 

Drawn out affair? A couple of days is hardly a drawn out affair is it? 

Why is unacceptable? 

 

Why is it unacceptable that owners with zero clue on football are interfering on transfer matters, preventing the actual football manager from having the autonomy to sell a player before his contract expires to bring 2 in? You think thats normal?

[Guest]

A lot of guesswork going on. Nobody knows what actually happened. What we do know is that he brought on those two subs, we switched things up and it worked. It doesn't matter who's to blame or who's to praise really

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Why is it unacceptable that owners with zero clue on football are interfering on transfer matters, preventing the actual football manager from having the autonomy to sell a player before his contract expires to bring 2 in? You think thats normal?

clearly they know business and what players are worth. Just look at the Phil Jones where they got more money out of United despite them meeting his release clause, Rhodes transfer fee, Gestede. When they sell players they generally get good money when we sell one. 

Plus Bournemouth withdraw their bid for Rothwell cos they signed Cantwell who they have used in a midfield 3 now. 

[Mattyblue]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

clearly they know business

They clearly do not know the football business, we’ve 12 years of evidence on that score…

[davulsukur]

10 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

clearly they know business and what players are worth. Just look at the Phil Jones where they got more money out of United despite them meeting his release clause, Rhodes transfer fee, Gestede. When they sell players they generally get good money when we sell one. 

Plus Bournemouth withdraw their bid for Rothwell cos they signed Cantwell who they have used in a midfield 3 now. 

What about Nzonzi and Cairney, sold for no where near their valuation?

Cairney, if I remember was sold from under the manager's feet.

Edited March 16, 2022 by davulsukur

[Upside Down]

11 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

clearly they know business and what players are worth. Just look at the Phil Jones where they got more money out of United despite them meeting his release clause, Rhodes transfer fee, Gestede. When they sell players they generally get good money when we sell one. 

Plus Bournemouth withdraw their bid for Rothwell cos they signed Cantwell who they have used in a midfield 3 now. 

Knock it off chaddy, they have totally fucked this club and are 100% responsible for the last eleven years of humiliation and decay this once proud club has undergone. 

 

[chaddyrovers]

20 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

What about Nzonzi and Cairney, sold for no where near their valuation?

Cairney, if I remember was sold from under the manager's feet.

Do you think Nzonzi was worth than 4 million pounds that we sold him for? 

Cairney was sold for 3 million which was undervalued IMO But Bowyer said after we sold him "We’re bringing in a player like Tom and the transfer fee that we paid for him and the transfer fee that we sold him for is nowhere near the same. The mark-up is unbelievable from the club. So from that point of view, that’s good business."

I don't know if Cairney was sold from under the manager's feet but he comments on this also "

“It’s a sad loss to lose Tom.

“He was a fantastic player, a great player for us, and a cracking lad from a really good family.

“We are disappointed he has left us but the offer on the table went to the owners and they accepted that.

“We have to move on now but what it shows you is the environment that we’ve got here and the work that we do here, it’s producing players, and in this day and age we have to take the positives out of that.

[Miller11]

I can’t believe some of the posts on here over the last hour or so. We are weeks away from seeing 3 players that we have spent a combined 25 years developing walk away for absolutely nothing.

Praising Venky’s transfer acumen has to be an attempt to deliberately provoke other members of this forum.

Edited March 16, 2022 by Miller11

[PeteJD13]

55 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

clearly they know business and what players are worth. Just look at the Phil Jones where they got more money out of United despite them meeting his release clause, Rhodes transfer fee, Gestede. When they sell players they generally get good money when we sell one. 

Plus Bournemouth withdraw their bid for Rothwell cos they signed Cantwell who they have used in a midfield 3 now. 

Yeah they really did great business with Cairney, oh and the three we are losing this summer. Let’s look at the great business sense with Brereton going into his last 12 months. Great business sense rovers and venkys don’t belong in the same sentence. 

[davulsukur]

35 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Do you think Nzonzi was worth than 4 million pounds that we sold him for? 

Cairney was sold for 3 million which was undervalued IMO But Bowyer said after we sold him "We’re bringing in a player like Tom and the transfer fee that we paid for him and the transfer fee that we sold him for is nowhere near the same. The mark-up is unbelievable from the club. So from that point of view, that’s good business."

I don't know if Cairney was sold from under the manager's feet but he comments on this also "

“It’s a sad loss to lose Tom.

“He was a fantastic player, a great player for us, and a cracking lad from a really good family.

“We are disappointed he has left us but the offer on the table went to the owners and they accepted that.

“We have to move on now but what it shows you is the environment that we’ve got here and the work that we do here, it’s producing players, and in this day and age we have to take the positives out of that.

Reports of £2.5m at the time and LET said £3m I think. 

Do I think he was worth £4m? A guy who went on to win the Europa League and was then sold for £25m?

He was worth way more than £4m (or whatever he was actually sold for) and anyone with eyes could see Stoke had our pants down. 

Fucking hell "mark up value"? Cairney was worth more than we sold him for, doesn't matter what we paid.

Would have been Happy to see Armstrong go for £6m last year because we only paid £3m for him? Great mark up value. 

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by davulsukur

[FortressEwood]

9 hours ago, Mellor Rover said:

I assume it was along the lines of Trav, Lenihan and Dack saying 'this shit, Dacky's coming on and Sam's playing through the middle. Writing was on the wall when Dack wasn't warming up at half time.

You assume 🤣

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

clearly they know business and what players are worth. Just look at the Phil Jones where they got more money out of United despite them meeting his release clause, Rhodes transfer fee, Gestede. When they sell players they generally get good money when we sell one. 

Plus Bournemouth withdraw their bid for Rothwell cos they signed Cantwell who they have used in a midfield 3 now. 

How do they know what players are worth? 

I can only presume that you are on the wind up if you genuinely see no problem in the owners interfering with transfer decisions.

[chaddyrovers]

6 hours ago, PeteJD13 said:

Yeah they really did great business with Cairney, oh and the three we are losing this summer. Let’s look at the great business sense with Brereton going into his last 12 months. Great business sense rovers and venkys don’t belong in the same sentence. 

Haven't I already said Cairney were sold cheaper than he should have been. 

These 3 players have been offered improved contracts and refuse to them. 

And where you saying last season we should been offering Brereton last season before his goalscoring this season? 

 

5 hours ago, davulsukur said:

Reports of £2.5m at the time and LET said £3m I think. 

Do I think he was worth £4m? A guy who went on to win the Europa League and was then sold for £25m?

He was worth way more than £4m (or whatever he was actually sold for) and anyone with eyes could see Stoke had our pants down. 

Fucking hell "mark up value"? Cairney was worth more than we sold him for, doesn't matter what we paid.

Would have been Happy to see Armstrong go for £6m last year because we only paid £3m for him? Great mark up value. 

 

The mark up value were made by Bowyer not myself. 

He went for 25 million 6 years later after 2 clubs moves and playing for top 6 Spanish club. 

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

How do they know what players are worth? 

I can only presume that you are on the wind up if you genuinely see no problem in the owners interfering with transfer decisions.

Wind up? Give it rest roversfan99 if that's the best comment you got. 

Cos they advised by the club and managers what they worth. I remember being a fan meeting where fans were saying that Gestede were sold on the cheap despite Bowyer and Shaw saying 6 million pounds was the highest bid we ever received. 

[BigUts]

IMHO to achieve a top 6 finish with this squad would be an excellent achievement. The consensus amongst the fanbase at the start of the season seemed to be that a relegation dog-fight is what we were in for this, when in reality (and now somewhat disappointingly) we probably should have been pushing Bournemouth all the way. Does that show how far we have come or a real falling part?!

I think Tony rolled the dice a bit in January on the hope that BBD would stay fit for the remainder of the season and keep up his goal scoring form. It was perhaps a lazy decision to make but it appears we had basically zero cash to spend. The signing of Hedges for any fee seems to be a bit of a panic to me due to Markanday's injury taking place.

Tony deserves a hell of a lot of credit. From where he picked us up 5 years ago to now is chalk and cheese. It has at times been excruciatingly slow and painful but in the cold light of day I think it's an achievement. 

If we are able to hit the play-offs this season then I would give him a 12 month rolling contract with perhaps a break clause at the end of each season and see how next season transpires. If we do miss out, its definitely time for a change and some new ideas. Who we would be able to bring in though is a completely different story and would probably require a huge overhaul of lots of staff. 

[Gav]

19 minutes ago, BigUts said:

IMHO to achieve a top 6 finish with this squad would be an excellent achievement. The consensus amongst the fanbase at the start of the season seemed to be that a relegation dog-fight is what we were in for this, when in reality (and now somewhat disappointingly) we probably should have been pushing Bournemouth all the way. Does that show how far we have come or a real falling part?!

I think Tony rolled the dice a bit in January on the hope that BBD would stay fit for the remainder of the season and keep up his goal scoring form. It was perhaps a lazy decision to make but it appears we had basically zero cash to spend. The signing of Hedges for any fee seems to be a bit of a panic to me due to Markanday's injury taking place.

Tony deserves a hell of a lot of credit. From where he picked us up 5 years ago to now is chalk and cheese. It has at times been excruciatingly slow and painful but in the cold light of day I think it's an achievement. 

If we are able to hit the play-offs this season then I would give him a 12 month rolling contract with perhaps a break clause at the end of each season and see how next season transpires. If we do miss out, its definitely time for a change and some new ideas. Who we would be able to bring in though is a completely different story and would probably require a huge overhaul of lots of staff. 

Spot on.

[Admiral Nelsen]

51 minutes ago, BigUts said:

IMHO to achieve a top 6 finish with this squad would be an excellent achievement. The consensus amongst the fanbase at the start of the season seemed to be that a relegation dog-fight is what we were in for this, when in reality (and now somewhat disappointingly) we probably should have been pushing Bournemouth all the way. Does that show how far we have come or a real falling part?!

I think Tony rolled the dice a bit in January on the hope that BBD would stay fit for the remainder of the season and keep up his goal scoring form. It was perhaps a lazy decision to make but it appears we had basically zero cash to spend. The signing of Hedges for any fee seems to be a bit of a panic to me due to Markanday's injury taking place.

Tony deserves a hell of a lot of credit. From where he picked us up 5 years ago to now is chalk and cheese. It has at times been excruciatingly slow and painful but in the cold light of day I think it's an achievement. 

If we are able to hit the play-offs this season then I would give him a 12 month rolling contract with perhaps a break clause at the end of each season and see how next season transpires. If we do miss out, its definitely time for a change and some new ideas. Who we would be able to bring in though is a completely different story and would probably require a huge overhaul of lots of staff. 

 

Assuming we finish in the top 6 (irrespective of whether we go up via the play offs), I think that would be a really sensible option. Clearly he wouldn't deserve to get potted on this season's showing, whatever we would've thought last year. A rolling deal means that everyone has some stability and if sacking is an option further down the line, we won't be paying off a 2-3 year deal.