v Derby County (h) - 15/3/22

[only2garners]

1 hour ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

Without the points deduction Derby would be 8th in the league.

Err no, 16th just below Swansea. Although to be fair, as well as the points deduction, they have suffered from not being able to bring players in and losing a few.

[joey_big_nose]

3 hours ago, DaveyB said:

Just a thought that occurred to me earlier - I’ve seen a lot of comments on here praising the second half performance last night and stuff like “that’s how we should have been playing” etc, however the only real difference between last night and the last few weeks (yesterday’s 1st half excepted) is that we took our chances. For instance, the goals we scored last night, we had almost exactly the same chances on Saturday but didn’t take any of them -
1st goal, Wharton free header from a corner, on Saturday he put it wide
2nd goal - point blank header inside the 6yd box - on Saturday Lenihan put it straight at the keeper
3rd goal - striker arriving on the end of a cross from the left - on Saturday Dack screws it wide

So, whilst it was much improved from the first 45 minutes (let’s be honest it couldn’t have been worse), the performance was very similar to how we’ve been playing lately* - we just got the rewards from it whereas we haven’t previously. 
 

* in fact I’d argue that the performances against Sheff Utd and definitely Millwall were far better than last night - just without the clinical finishing 

I agree with the general point. In the horrendous recent run we generally created a decent amount of chances and should have picked up a lot more point. Our finishing was terrible. 

That said second half against Derby we were definitely getting more people forward and in the box than we have done for a long time. Regularly getting four or five bodies in, whereas before maybe only two or three. 

We obviously were taking a lot more risks, and it paid off.

[Exiled in Toronto]

So what was said by who at half-time isn’t out there anywhere - or have I missed it?

[AAK]

1 hour ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

Without the points deduction Derby would be 8th in the league.

If you can't admit it when Mowbray deserves credit - regardless of whether he does last night or not - it really detracts from lots of constructive criticism on here. 

Never listen to sky commentators facts on the red button, they don’t have a clue, derby would be 16th not 8th!

[jim mk2]

1 hour ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

Yes, I read the "we've had a good 20 mins against a bottom 3 team" and made the point that they wouldn't be a bottom 3 team without a points deduction. So it's not really a valid point to dig Mowbray out with when there are plenty of others. Read my post. 

Doesn’t many any sense, sorry. Nice to see you have a little friend 

[rigger]

6 minutes ago, AAK said:

Never listen to sky commentators facts on the red button, they don’t have a clue, derby would be 16th not 8th!

8th off bottom maybe ?

[AAK]

31 minutes ago, rigger said:

8th off bottom maybe ?

They definitely said 8th place, I heard it myself but knew it was garbage mate.

Edited March 16, 2022 by AAK

[roverandout]

Rovers won inspite of Mowbray not because of him. First half Derby could have been 3-0 up so his changes at half time weren't revolutionary. He brought on 2 obvious players the only players that could have made a difference.  He made the mess in the first half so he doesn't deserve any credit fixing his own problems. 

[AAK]

Just now, roverandout said:

Rovers won inspite of Mowbray not because of him. First half Derby could have been 3-0 up so his changes at half time weren't revolutionary. He brought on 2 obvious players the only players that could have made a difference.  He made the mess in the first half so he doesn't deserve any credit fixing his own problems. 

Exactly, surely Johnson’s own social media post replying to a fan saying it was a nightmare, speaks volumes.

[Bbrovers2288]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

There is absolutely no way on earth that we should use Gallagher in a similar way to Graham. There is this constant expectation that has been around since he signed that he would take over once Graham was phased out. They could barely be any more different.

Dack thrived playing off Graham because he was an expert with his back to goal, he had a good touch, he was good at knocking the ball down with his head, he was intelligent in working off defenders, Gallagher is as poor as any striker I can remember in a Rovers shirt at those things. Graham was also a penalty box predator who anticipated chances and had the composure to often convert, Gallagher rarely sniffs out chances and when he does he is often clumsy and un coordinated. On the flip side, Graham was ageing and slow whereas Gallagher is a powerful runner especially over long distances and he does have a spring on him. They work in opposite ways.

Gallagher was good last night, but lets not make conclusions about a player he clearly is not, either in style or in quality. He has proven consistently that he is a very limited footballer, should he start centrally at the weekend? Yes, but is he the answer as a central target man in general? Not in a million years.

"He will score goals" whilst true literally is not something he will do with any consistent regularity, or if he does, it will be the first time in his career.

You could basically say that about any tactical tweak ever. One extra player in x position, revolutionary.

Right but your robbing Peter to pay Paul , it’s only good to be defensively sound if we have an attacking threat up top too, by the same token no good being attacking and scoring loads if leaking more at the other end, as coyle found out. 
So yes he may have got us more defensively solid but we are limp up top, so why should I be giving him credit.

common sense surely 

[Tom]

Bonkers that now Chinese whispers is gospel and taken as proof

For me Mowbray had a job last night, to get us 3 points, he got that so can’t be devoid of credit

He blatantly got it wrong in the first half, it was the pits, but he made changes and we won the game, that doesn’t make him a football genius but we often criticise him for being out thought and failing to deal with opposition changes during the game.

Surely by the same logic we have to credit him for out thinking Rooney with the changes?

[Bbrovers2288]

17 minutes ago, Tom said:

Bonkers that now Chinese whispers is gospel and taken as proof

For me Mowbray had a job last night, to get us 3 points, he got that so can’t be devoid of credit

He blatantly got it wrong in the first half, it was the pits, but he made changes and we won the game, that doesn’t make him a football genius but we often criticise him for being out thought and failing to deal with opposition changes during the game.

Surely by the same logic we have to credit him for out thinking Rooney with the changes?

Anybody in the stands could have came down to the dugout at half time and decided to play players in their correct position and changed that game, it wasn’t a massive change needed , galling thing was that it took him 45 mins to see that for me 

[Oldgregg86]

Come on lads he ballsed up the first half and put It right in the second . He is criticised for his 60 minute subs (usually by me) and made the changes needed at half time. The first half’s on him so is the second . Even if it was a player mutiny he didn’t have to change anything. He is the manager after all. Let’s just enjoy the three points . I’m sure there will be enough things to pull him on after we’ve faced a Paul Ince masterclass. 

[Silas]

2 hours ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

Without the points deduction Derby would be 8th in the league.

https://www.soccerstats.com/formtable.asp?league=england2

Championship form tables, 6/8/10/12 games.

Derby are in the bottom 3 in all of them except 10 games where they sit a lofty 20th.

This points deduction scenario seems to confuse things. They are simply an incredibly poor team. Not their fault with what's gone on, but still very clear.

I'm chuffed we beat them, I really am, but I'm not going to start pretending it was some impressive feat.

With their away record in particular versus our home record, a win last night was a fairly low bar to achieve. We did it, and well done to TM and the team for that.

But I'm thinking any major plaudits can wait until they have put some form of substantial run together to get us back on track. Don't feel I'm being unfair with that stance. I would hope the squad would think exactly the same way, otherwise they don't hold much professional pride. 

[47er]

9 hours ago, Geoff66 said:

In case you hadn't noticed were 4th in the Championship with Dack back in the team and Diaz back in a few weeks time.

Dack won't be fully match-fit when the season ends and "a few weeks time" for Diaz means he'll play little part in the run in. These were precisely my point.

But you knew that and you're arguing for the sake of it.

[den]

All managers make mistakes, pick the wrong team or have their favourites.

That decision to play Johnson as a false number nine does leave me wondering about the entire mindset of Mowbray. I can’t really believe there’s another manager on earth that could have come up with that one. Far outstrips Hodsons idea of playing Christian Dailly on the wing. 

[47er]

8 hours ago, BigUts said:

we can all agree Tony made the change to bring Giles on who crossed a beauty for Gallagher to head home - or are we saying Lenihan and Travis made that change too?

 

All suggested on here by posters who aren't paid a salary to watch Rovers.

[47er]

9 hours ago, Geoff66 said:

If we had decent transfer funds we could have brought Messi to ewood.

And played him centre-back!

[Gav]

4 minutes ago, 47er said:

And played him centre-back!

I'll take that, Messi in a Rovers shirt, could you imagine......

[tomphil]

15 minutes ago, den said:

All managers make mistakes, pick the wrong team or have their favourites.

That decision to play Johnson as a false number nine does leave me wondering about the entire mindset of Mowbray. I can’t really believe there’s another manager on earth that could have come up with that one. Far outstrips Hodsons idea of playing Christian Dailly on the wing. 

Can only presume he was looking at containing Derby first half and introducing the big guns second half.  The kind of thing Klopp and Pep do with their multi talented squads !

When i first saw the team i thought he's going 5 in midfield and Dolan up top on his own or something. Once it kicked off i couldn't quite fathom what the craic actually was, did anyone ?

Either way it was an odd approach against opposition like them at home when we are desperate for goals.

Anyway i've decided to take the blame instead of Tony as he obviously saw me ranting on here about trying someone else as false 9.

Not quite what i had in mind though.

Edited March 16, 2022 by tomphil

[Gav]

15 minutes ago, den said:

All managers make mistakes, pick the wrong team or have their favourites.

That decision to play Johnson as a false number nine does leave me wondering about the entire mindset of Mowbray. I can’t really believe there’s another manager on earth that could have come up with that one. Far outstrips Hodsons idea of playing Christian Dailly on the wing. 

Nigel Pearson played Andreas Weimann at full back on Saturday, the clubs top scorer and striker with 16 goals.

Whilst I find the Johnson decision baffling, traditional positions are a thing of the past, football has moved on as Man City prove week in week without playing a striker in most games. 

 

[47er]

5 hours ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

We were all glad he left for Newcastle.

We certainly were. Had told lost the plot! Brilliant for us for the first few years though.

Usually how it goes, they all outlive their usefulness at some point. Mowbray please note!

[den]

Just now, Gav said:

Nigel Pearson played Andreas Weimann at full back on Saturday, the clubs top scorer and striker with 16 goals.

Whilst I find the Johnson decision baffling, traditional positions are a thing of the past, football has moved on as Man City prove week in week without playing a striker in most games. 

 

Weimann might be a decent full back Gav, I don’t know. 
 

We are talking Bradley Johnson at centre forward here.

[tomphil]

7 minutes ago, Gav said:

Nigel Pearson played Andreas Weimann at full back on Saturday, the clubs top scorer and striker with 16 goals.

Whilst I find the Johnson decision baffling, traditional positions are a thing of the past, football has moved on as Man City prove week in week without playing a striker in most games. 

 

They had Nakki Wells up front.

We had Gallagher, Dack, Giles and Hedges on the bench.

Edited March 16, 2022 by tomphil

[Gav]

15 minutes ago, den said:

Weimann might be a decent full back Gav, I don’t know. 
 

We are talking Bradley Johnson at centre forward here.

He's a 17 goal striker den, playing full back, its like Shearer playing instead of Le Saux.