v Derby County (h) - 15/3/22

[Admiral Nelsen]

18 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

He deserves criticism for his first half tactics, 100%, I agree and join in with that. When I saw Johnson as a false 9 against a veteran Curtis Davies and against a Derby side who naively play the ball out from the back, I winced, it couldn't have been a more illogical tactic.

He also deserves praise for the proactive timing and the actual changes made to rectify those mistakes and ultimately we won the game.

Its more the side issues that I don't think warrant such focus. Touchline demeanour, interviews, questioning his passion or whether the players are playing for him, I just don't get it.

 

Agree completely with the highlighted bit. A really noticeable development in the last few years that interviews have almost become an extra way of judging a manager's performance. Almost as though they were politicians. 

Completely barmy in my view. Mowbray could come out and say that the sky is green & I wouldn't care if we were winning games. 

[rigger]

5 minutes ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

Agree completely with the highlighted bit. A really noticeable development in the last few years that interviews have almost become an extra way of judging a manager's performance. Almost as though they were politicians. 

Completely barmy in my view. Mowbray could come out and say that the sky is green & I wouldn't care if we were winning games. 

The thing is Mowbray would believe that the sky is green, then insist that it is green.

[Bbrovers2288]

21 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Can you please point out when I have asked for the same tactics and specifically for "players shoehorned into positions?" In this very thread, I have been very critical of the bizarre tactics employed in the first half that thankfully were rectified quickly and proactively enough to see us to victory.

Mowbray I would suggest has earnt his wage thus far this season with us being 4th in the table as it stands. Doesn't mean that his management has been perfect.

Sorry might have been bigdogsteel, fact remains that Tony is costing us points at this stage. We could easily have been 2 down at the end of the first half and we wouldn’t have came back from that. It’s not good enough. We are fake 4th, tell me what we are when the teams have played their games in hand from where we were it’s a major collapse and responsibility is on him 

[roversfan99]

7 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

Sorry might have been bigdogsteel, fact remains that Tony is costing us points at this stage. We could easily have been 2 down at the end of the first half and we wouldn’t have came back from that. It’s not good enough. We are fake 4th, tell me what we are when the teams have played their games in hand from where we were it’s a major collapse and responsibility is on him 

Over the course of the season, we have got the amount of points we have as a direct result of his management. The points won and points lost over the course of the season are the responsibility of the manager in equal measure.

Could have, would have, should have, its a results business. Had we gone 2 down and not come back, there wouldn't be any scope for his defence, but that is all hypothetical. We won last night which is all that matters. His tactics in the first half were baffling, and obviously going in a goal down, hindered his own job as manager of winning a football match. Thankfully, his choice and timing of substitutions/tactical as well as whatever he said and did at half time saw us to victory.

I have even seen people implying that it was the players who got us back into it yesterday. How is it possibly from a fair vantage point if when we are losing, any positive reaction is player driven, yet if we are winning/drawings and react negatively, it is the managers fault?

At the moment, its hard to judge as teams have played different amounts of games, there are plenty of rivals with fixtures to come against one another, the one thing we can be sure of is that it is all about after 46 games and as it stands, we are very much in the mix. My stance has always been that if we do finish in the top 6, it is a very good achievement. If we do make it, Mowbray deserves plenty of praise, regardless of the way it is done, ie even if it is somewhat of a perceived stumble over the line, you finish where you finish over 46 games. That achievement would for me warrant a new deal regardless of what happens after.

Am I confident of a top 6 finish? Not really no, and if we don't make it, I would consider that the perfect and natural opportunity for a change of manager, 100%.

[Dan]

 

[jim mk2]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

This site likes to blame the manager for everything, the players haven't turned up in recent weeks, they need to own that and got told last night in no uncertain terms. 

Good try

It appears Travis and one or two others bollocked Mowbray "in no uncertain" terms "why tf is a defensive midfielder (Johnson) playing up front"?

No wonder Tony looked glum afterwards - he was being told how to set up his own team

Managers are responsible for results - no one else

[roversfan99]

Just now, jim mk2 said:

Good try

It appears Travis and one or two others bollocked Mowbray "in no uncertain" terms "why tf is a defensive midfielder (Johnson) playing up front"?

No wonder Tony looked glum afterwards - he was being told how to set up his own team

Managers are responsible for results - no one else

Rovers 3-1 Derby being included in that?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, davulsukur said:

I missed that, what happened? (Or appeared to happen)

All I saw was the ball went long, think their keeper picked it up and Travis and Mowbray we're shouting at each other and Travis was very animated (lost of arm waving and pointing). Could be nothing as Travis didn't have the best of halves but he wasn't a happy camper.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

In what way has Johnson been pivotal this season? Offers a bit of experience in a side lacking it, but to say he’s had more of an impact than Dolan, Khadra or Rothwell, don’t get the logic.

Last 2 games he started in his position have we not won? QPR and Boro?

[Dan]

1 minute ago, Mellor Rover said:

All I saw was the ball went long, think their keeper picked it up and Travis and Mowbray we're shouting at each other and Travis was very animated (lost of arm waving and pointing). Could be nothing as Travis didn't have the best of halves but he wasn't a happy camper.

I read on Twitter that Travis questioned why we were playing a DMF up front. 

[Mattyblue]

1 minute ago, Mellor Rover said:

Last 2 games he started in his position have we not won? QPR and Boro?

I think he’s done fine when called upon. But he’s largely been a squad man (started 7 games), so I’m struggling to see how he would go down as one of the main heroes of any promotion.

[Waggy76]

12 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

All I saw was the ball went long, think their keeper picked it up and Travis and Mowbray we're shouting at each other and Travis was very animated (lost of arm waving and pointing). Could be nothing as Travis didn't have the best of halves but he wasn't a happy camper.

At one time mid 1st half , Venus and Travis were having a good an argument with Travis very vocal..

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

I think he’s done fine when called upon. But he’s largely been a squad man (started 7 games), so I’m struggling to see how he would go down as one of the main heroes of any promotion.

No I agree on that. Meant to be a big voice in the dressing room though.

[Exiled in Toronto]

Rather a lot being made of Gallagher scoring from a perfect cross against ten men of a bottom 3 team who’d pushed up in the 98th minute desperately seeking an equalizer. Let’s hope he is equally deadly on Saturday.

[Bbrovers2288]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Over the course of the season, we have got the amount of points we have as a direct result of his management. The points won and points lost over the course of the season are the responsibility of the manager in equal measure.

Could have, would have, should have, its a results business. Had we gone 2 down and not come back, there wouldn't be any scope for his defence, but that is all hypothetical. We won last night which is all that matters. His tactics in the first half were baffling, and obviously going in a goal down, hindered his own job as manager of winning a football match. Thankfully, his choice and timing of substitutions/tactical as well as whatever he said and did at half time saw us to victory.

I have even seen people implying that it was the players who got us back into it yesterday. How is it possibly from a fair vantage point if when we are losing, any positive reaction is player driven, yet if we are winning/drawings and react negatively, it is the managers fault?

At the moment, its hard to judge as teams have played different amounts of games, there are plenty of rivals with fixtures to come against one another, the one thing we can be sure of is that it is all about after 46 games and as it stands, we are very much in the mix. My stance has always been that if we do finish in the top 6, it is a very good achievement. If we do make it, Mowbray deserves plenty of praise, regardless of the way it is done, ie even if it is somewhat of a perceived stumble over the line, you finish where you finish over 46 games. That achievement would for me warrant a new deal regardless of what happens after.

Am I confident of a top 6 finish? Not really no, and if we don't make it, I would consider that the perfect and natural opportunity for a change of manager, 100%.

Real lack of quality in this league this year, had we a decent manager I’d suggest we would be creeping up on a promotion, as it is we are slowly falling down the league and out the playoffs, I have no real confidence that we are going to be in the mix come the end and even less confidence of doing anything should we stumble in there , no doubt mowbray would try and throw a curveball and have players playing all over the shop and nobody actually know what they are doing ala first half. 
you try and defend him but really he is indefensible at times, he must be an absolute nightmare to be managed by. 

[speeeeeeedie]

I'm glad that Rovers won, but it sounds like it was a farce of a first half.

That comment from Johnson posted by Dan is telling. I'll not lambast Mowbray if as is being reported the players laid into him at halftime Mowbray listened and changed it up. It's not the first time that players have told a manager that what they are doing is not working. 

If the teams around win their games in hand Rovers fall to 9th. However, I doubt that the drop will be that far due to teams playing each other.

[roversfan99]

16 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

Real lack of quality in this league this year, had we a decent manager I’d suggest we would be creeping up on a promotion, as it is we are slowly falling down the league and out the playoffs, I have no real confidence that we are going to be in the mix come the end and even less confidence of doing anything should we stumble in there , no doubt mowbray would try and throw a curveball and have players playing all over the shop and nobody actually know what they are doing ala first half. 
you try and defend him but really he is indefensible at times, he must be an absolute nightmare to be managed by. 

We are in the mix come the end, we are going into our final 8 games now and are 4th, whether we drop a place or two due to games in hand or not, we are very much in the mix going into the home straight. I would tend to agree that the quality in the league in general (not just this season) is shall we say unremarkable, but its important to put into context that Mowbray himself is hardly working at an advantage to our rivals. This season, we sold our best player at a massive profit, our other best player has only just returned from a second ACL, and aside from a nominal fee for a squad player, our owners gave him none of those proceeds to reinvest, and not only that, prevented him from selling someone in January to reinvest.

The path to which our season has taken does Mowbray no favours in the perception of him either, partially justifiably but only if people don't lose sight of the fact that a top 6 finish would be a very good achievement. Had our poor spell been before the good spell, then the whole mood would be different. Many of the (again, it is fair to question tactics when they don't work) tactics used were critical to our good run, the false 9, the back 3, wing backs, wide forwards etc.

It seems that like many, any sort of acknowledgment of the things he does get right is some sort of desperate and illogical attempt to defend him. I hardly have an unwavering loyalty towards him, I wanted him out last summer and before that, and I keep saying that should we not finish in the top 6, as you seem certain of and to be honest I am not confident in, then I would make a change. I have also repeatedly criticised the tactics in the first half last night that made no sense, equally I have praised him for being proactive in changing that and ultimately that was enough to get us a crucial win, therefore the first half tactics as crazy as they were haven't harmed us. I also haven't reverted to criticising his touchline demeanour, expecting him to be charging around like a mad man when he is not that sort of guy, or picking apart his post match interview to find ways to undermine him after he has led us to victory. 

 

[lraC]

1 hour ago, Dan said:

I read on Twitter that Travis questioned why we were playing a DMF up front. 

Johnson himself has reacted to that too.

[tomphil]

41 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Rather a lot being made of Gallagher scoring from a perfect cross against ten men of a bottom 3 team who’d pushed up in the 98th minute desperately seeking an equalizer. Let’s hope he is equally deadly on Saturday.

He was excellent when he came on last night the goal just capped a good performance by him. Nothing is going to turn him into a deadly finisher but last night highlighted again how he should be used.

[rigger]

20 minutes ago, tomphil said:

He was excellent when he came on last night the goal just capped a good performance by him. Nothing is going to turn him into a deadly finisher but last night highlighted again how he should be used.

Let's hope he gets the chance down the middle again on Saturday.

[jim mk2]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Rovers 3-1 Derby being included in that?

Yes and no. The players told him where it was going wrong and he took it on board. Some managers wouldn't. Without their intervention though it has to be assumed he would have stuck to his guns and we'd have lost another game

If Mowbray gets us in the play-offs he will be due some credit. That should have been the easy bit though from where we were at new year

 

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Yes and no. The players told him where it was going wrong and he took it on board. Some managers wouldn't. Without their intervention though it has to be assumed he would have stuck to his guns and we'd have lost another game

If Mowbray gets us in the play-offs he will be due some credit. That should have been the easy bit though from where we were at new year

 

Absolute nonsense. All assumed rubbish to do anything possible to not credit the manager.

Its a results game unless that result is a win in which case it is in spite of the manager, not because of him.

[jim mk2]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Absolute nonsense. All assumed rubbish to do anything possible to not credit the manager.

Its a results game unless that result is a win in which case it is in spite of the manager, not because of him.

Absolute nonsense - and a misinterpretation of what was posted

[rigger]

7 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Absolute nonsense - and a misinterpretation of what was posted

It's all assumed nonsense, as no-one outside of the dressing room, knows what was said or by whom. 

Edited March 16, 2022 by rigger

[jim mk2]

6 minutes ago, rigger said:

It's all assumed nonsense, as no-one outside of the dressing room, knows what was said or by whom. 

Yes they do