Tony Mowbray

[Waggy76]

10 hours ago, tomphil said:

Probably loan him out or sell him back to another Scottish club in summer.

Remember the Stokes 'sting'  %%%

That's the guy , whose name escaped me...

[Gav]

2 hours ago, matt83 said:

Strikers on the wing, defensive midfielders up front, left backs on the right wing. IF Mowbray landed a decent championship club and had a war chest at his disposal it wouldn’t matter one jot with his tactical prowess.

Managers up and down the land play players out of traditional positions, this isn't a Mowbray thing at all. I think what this demonstrates is as football fans we don't understand the game, if we did we'd probably be working in the industry and yes I've been as baffled as you by some of the decisions matt.

[Mattyblue]

Positions in football are obviously far more fluid than the rigid days of Four, Four, Fecking Two! So all the ‘square peg in round holes’ lament you often hear does show how many fans struggle to adapt to the modern game.

However, that doesn’t mean stubbornness/arrogance of managers is not also a factor with some players/tactics, where it is blindingly obvious that it isn’t working, exhibit A - the fish on a bicycle that is Sam Gallagher out wide.

[tomphil]

It becomes an issue in Mowbray land when not only does it repeatedly not work in a lot of cases but he keeps trying it. Even more annoying when other players suited to these positions are left out and not because they can't take any part.

How many times has he tried the Giles experiment ?  How many times has it worked ?

Yet he has assists from the left side !   Got to shoe horn Gallagher in though that's the issue and big Sam can't shoot on his left foot.

[martonrover]

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

Got to shoe horn Gallagher in though that's the issue and big Sam can't shoot on his left foot.

Not sure he can shoot on his right one. 

[martonrover]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

Positions in football are obviously far more fluid than the rigid days of Four, Four, Fecking Two! So all the ‘square peg in round holes’ lament you often hear does show how many fans struggle to adapt to the modern game.

However, that doesn’t mean stubbornness/arrogance of managers is not also a factor with some players/tactics, where it is blindingly obvious that it isn’t working, exhibit A - the fish on a bicycle that is Sam Gallagher out wide.

Yes, there are limits to what you can ask of players. If you are managing a top Premier League team with World class players, you can afford to experiment a little.

If you are managing players with more limited abilities, you are better off keeping it simple.

Eg, It’s debatable whether Gallagher is capable of playing at Championship level in any position, but playing him on the right is just plain stupid.

As for the Johnson experiment v Derby ………….

[Gav]

Lets not forget, the same criticism being thrown at Mowbray and Gallagher, mirrors exactly what was said about Diaz and we all know how that turned out.

If anyone takes the time to look back at that Diaz thread, it makes extremely painful reading and just supports the point above, we are not experts in football, although we all think we are, if we were we'd be employed in the game. 

[Wheelton Blue]

You don't need to be an expert to see that a lot of what Mowbray tries - and somehow persists with - is nonsense.

[tomphil]

7 minutes ago, Gav said:

Lets not forget, the same criticism being thrown at Mowbray and Gallagher, mirrors exactly what was said about Diaz and we all know how that turned out.

If anyone takes the time to look back at that Diaz thread, it makes extremely painful reading and just supports the point above, we are not experts in football, although we all think we are, if we were we'd be employed in the game. 

Again no parallels to this discussion really.

A kid supposedly much sought after signed for 7 million and the natural expectation that comes with that.

An established player who's been here before and scored goals in a terrible team under a terrible manager, a guy who was on the books of a Prem side.

A good LWB only kept out of his Prem parent side by a more established pecking order. Plays LW has some decent games and a couple of assists. Shunted to the right and told that is how they see him by the 'experts', turns in crap displays, clearly is neither comfortable nor happy about it.

Nice try again Gav but experts or not we all watch the same games on a matchday and fans put the need for getting points and winning first. Developing some one else's players and shoehorning in expensive signings just to justify them isn't cutting it at the moment.

First away goals in 11 hours of football was it ?   Bottom of form table since Jan is it ?

Feck all expert about that pal just run of the mill second rate stuff.

[Armchair supporter supremo]

2 hours ago, Gav said:

Managers up and down the land play players out of traditional positions, this isn't a Mowbray thing at all. I think what this demonstrates is as football fans we don't understand the game, if we did we'd probably be working in the industry and yes I've been as baffled as you by some of the decisions matt.

Don't understand the game! 😄😄

 

I think the point is largely that those bizarre and embarrassing decisions of Mowbrays never work!! and it's not until he gives in and plays players in their more natural positions that we start doing well

Edited April 6, 2022 by Armchair supporter supremo

[Armchair supporter supremo]

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

It becomes an issue in Mowbray land when not only does it repeatedly not work in a lot of cases but he keeps trying it. Even more annoying when other players suited to these positions are left out and not because they can't take any part.

How many times has he tried the Giles experiment ?  How many times has it worked ?

Yet he has assists from the left side !   Got to shoe horn Gallagher in though that's the issue and big Sam can't shoot on his left foot.

It's just mental that he's so faithful to Gallagher yet has continued for years now to consistently play him out of position! 

If he liked Gallagher hed at least stick him upfront as traditional centre forward (where i personally think he can do an adequate job and get you around 15 goals a season if played there consistently) 

[Mattyblue]

BB was 20 when he was struggling, always had a much greater potential to improve, England youth international etc.

SG is nearly 27, isn’t getting any better (he’s regressing in many ways) and never had much in the way of pedigree to start with.

Edited April 6, 2022 by Mattyblue

[tomphil]

5 hours ago, matt83 said:

Strikers on the wing, defensive midfielders up front, left backs on the right wing. IF Mowbray landed a decent championship club and had a war chest at his disposal it wouldn’t matter one jot with his tactical prowess.

He has the cult of Tony Mowbray here he won’t want to give that up lightly. I can’t see it ending well for him if he got the Stoke or West Brom job and his opening gambit was to tell their fans about how difficult and long his journey is with the implication they’re lucky to have him.

He wouldn't though he'd probably just go for it if he had a budget.

He's played the long game here for various reasons but main one being because hes been able to due to how the club is set up. Gullible owners, vacancies filled by mates, a couple of hours from home, fanbase who clung to his every word and good money in wages.

He won't get that anywhere else ever so there'll be no place for bullshitting his way along. It'll here this is what we want this is what you've got, now go for it.

That SHOULD have been what happened here in the season or two after promotion from league 1.

Edited April 6, 2022 by tomphil

[Gav]

For a few seasons most fans would have had Gallagher over Diaz without a shadow of a doubt. Diaz looked liked he'd never kicked a football before he came to Ewood, played out of position and just dismissed as awful by many. 

I'm sure we all hope Gallagher has a upturn of fortune soon because we need him to show the form he displayed in early part of the season, scoring in every home league game up until November was it? I don't recall exactly.

 

[Armchair supporter supremo]

15 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

BB was 20 when he was struggling, always had a much greater potential to improve, England youth international etc.

SG is nearly 27, isn’t getting any better (he’s regressing in many ways) and never had much in the way of pedigree to start with.

He's just a mid table championship level centre forward, maybe under better management and being played more consistently in his natural role would have improved him a bit, but ibdo agree that he has regressed a lot since he signed for us permanently

[Silas]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

Lets not forget, the same criticism being thrown at Mowbray and Gallagher, mirrors exactly what was said about Diaz and we all know how that turned out.

If anyone takes the time to look back at that Diaz thread, it makes extremely painful reading....

 

On 21/10/2020 at 21:06, Silas said:

Nice run by Brereton. 

He's growing on confidence. 

I still have hope for him.

I've thrown in the towel on SG. 

That's almost 18 months ago I gave up on Gallagher. 

He's had all that time to prove me wrong. That's about 60 odd games.

If anything, his contributions have got worse over that period. 

And what's this notion that because 1 player has come good, it might happen with others? Simply not true. It's the exception not the norm. Particularly over such extended time periods (pandemic stoppages or not).

What about Keith Andrews, Jason Lowe, David Goodwillie, Chris Brown etc etc? 

SG is looking like panning out more in their mould than Diaz's. You've picked the one diamond in the rough that surprisingly came good, and tried to use it as an example that us football fans know nothing. 

I'd argue we get it right more often than we do wrong. 

Both SG and Mowbray have been given good backing and lots of time at this club to prove their value. Barring a remarkable turnaround in the next 6 weeks (Breretonesque perhaps 😉), neither will have achieved the required standard. 

And I'd be gutted if both were still vital cogs in the setup come August. Because we all know how that season would look. 😥

[RoversClitheroe]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

For a few seasons most fans would have had Gallagher over Diaz without a shadow of a doubt. Diaz looked liked he'd never kicked a football before he came to Ewood, played out of position and just dismissed as awful by many. 

I'm sure we all hope Gallagher has a upturn of fortune soon because we need him to show the form he displayed in early part of the season, scoring in every home league game up until November was it? I don't recall exactly.

 

Yeah and do you not remember why Gav?

Mowbray ruined the kid initially, signed him for £8m and didn't play him for 2 seasons, it was absolutely mental.

If we had spread that £8m into 4 X £2m signings we'd be in a better position imo.

But Mowbray messed the kid around, when in reality BB probably could have kicked on earlier if had been given a chance early doors.

[lraC]

1 hour ago, Silas said:

 

That's almost 18 months ago I gave up on Gallagher. 

He's had all that time to prove me wrong. That's about 60 odd games.

If anything, his contributions have got worse over that period. 

And what's this notion that because 1 player has come good, it might happen with others? Simply not true. It's the exception not the norm. Particularly over such extended time periods (pandemic stoppages or not).

What about Keith Andrews, Jason Lowe, David Goodwillie, Chris Brown etc etc? 

SG is looking like panning out more in their mould than Diaz's. You've picked the one diamond in the rough that surprisingly came good, and tried to use it as an example that us football fans know nothing. 

I'd argue we get it right more often than we do wrong. 

Both SG and Mowbray have been given good backing and lots of time at this club to prove their value. Barring a remarkable turnaround in the next 6 weeks (Breretonesque perhaps 😉), neither will have achieved the required standard. 

And I'd be gutted if both were still vital cogs in the setup come August. Because we all know how that season would look. 😥

Looking at that post as a whole, Gallagher might well have been signed, due to his initials being the same as our all time record goal scorer.

I am not seeing any other reason just now.

[tomphil]

50 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Yeah and do you not remember why Gav?

Mowbray ruined the kid initially, signed him for £8m and didn't play him for 2 seasons, it was absolutely mental.

If we had spread that £8m into 4 X £2m signings we'd be in a better position imo.

But Mowbray messed the kid around, when in reality BB probably could have kicked on earlier if had been given a chance early doors.

And lets remember what really helped kick him on and show a different side to his game.

Anybody waiting for Gallagher to morph into a Gallagher Diaz any time soon so they can hail Mowbray and blame fans is deluded.  

He is what he is and can still contribute but whilst others are here he'll continue to get shoehorned in because of the style of play.  They've been busy creating formations to suit AA, Dack and now BB so big Sam is just the go to man to make up the numbers.  Yet the money they paid for him and contract he's on mean they have to justify all that some how.

We might well see him center forward next season if we lose top players but i don't think it will have the result we are hoping for. Meanwhile whilst the BBs and Dacks are around he'll play 2nd and 3rd fiddle wherever the manager plays him and we'll see the same stuff, plenty effort the odd goal but bags of frustration.

I'll be honest i like him and feel more sorry for him than angry.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Yeah and do you not remember why Gav?

Mowbray ruined the kid initially, signed him for £8m and didn't play him for 2 seasons, it was absolutely mental.

If we had spread that £8m into 4 X £2m signings we'd be in a better position imo.

But Mowbray messed the kid around, when in reality BB probably could have kicked on earlier if had been given a chance early doors.

Lets not recreate history and make out that Brereton was underused and messed about in those first 2 years, when he played he was miles off it, he couldn't use his body at all and he wasn't ready to play more.

After some time out of the team he seemingly bulked up and started to resemble the player we see today.

[RoversClitheroe]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Lets not recreate history and make out that Brereton was underused and messed about in those first 2 years, when he played he was miles off it, he couldn't use his body at all and he wasn't ready to play more.

After some time out of the team he seemingly bulked up and started to resemble the player we see today.

Completely disagree. 

Mowbray consistently in the media stating he's unbelievable in training yet next to never started him for 2 seasons.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Completely disagree. 

Mowbray consistently in the media stating he's unbelievable in training yet next to never started him for 2 seasons.

He's not going to say that he's been shit in training is he.

He looked out of his depth for 2 years, thats why he didnt warrant more game time.

[Blue blood]

On Bereton the point is he did bugger all for 2 seasons, ok at best for one and good this year. Is it really ok for a £7 million signing to take 3+ years to develop? Is it ok for that much of the budget see little to no return for 3 years? I'm not convinced that's ok for us. Also I cannot think of a single player who took up such a large percentage of the budget who was given 3+ years to come good at a club. 

As for Gally. Regardless of merits everyone and his dog - in fact everyone but TM - can see he's best down the middle. Regardless of how good he actually is/might be that he is played so badly out of position shows TM knows bugger all. If he's actually a good player TM is a Muppet for wasting him out wide. If he is a duffer then TM is doubly stupid for buying him and playing him out of position. 

Any roads TM doesn't come out well from these transfers. 

 

[den]

5 hours ago, Armchair supporter supremo said:

He's just a mid table championship level centre forward,

He’s not that good.

[Gav]

8 minutes ago, den said:

He’s not that good.

You're not having another Jordan Rhodes moment are you den?

Sorry, couldn't resist 🤣

Edited April 6, 2022 by Gav