Which utterly brilliant manager will we be delighted to welcome next?

[JHRover]

Well time is ticking by - about 3 weeks now until the players report back to Brockhall for pre-season training and really the new man and his staff need time to get in, get preparing pre-season and get to work on recruitment.

A lot to do in not a lot of time.

I have to say I am baffled by this sporting director but after the head coach is appointed 'plan'. 

Lets suppose we appoint someone on the basis they are going to be head coach and not manager, and therefore will have to relinquish some power to the sporting director on player recruitment and coaching staff. What happens in the interval between head coach and sporting directors arriving? Who is responsible for identifying and signing players? 

Is a head coach really going to tolerate being brought in and then having a sporting director imposed on them where there may be a clash of ideas, personalities?

The more time that passes the more concerned I am that this is merely going to be a powerless 'head coach' brought in to work within the existing system - which means alongside Lowe, Benson and Johnson and whatever people we have dealing with things behind the scenes.

I had hoped for a clean sweep and fresh start on coaching after 5 years of the same names and faces. It seems the club wishes to prioritise saving money on a couple of pay-offs or prioritises keeping nice lads in jobs than it does bringing in the best staff possible. Of course I'll wait until a final announcement on that front but the omens aren't good.

I've spoken to a lot of people against Carvalhal because he's had a lot of jobs in his career.

For me we need to be looking for someone who is going to give us the best chance right away, who might give us a couple of decent shots at it and then we can re-assess in 2 years time. Then either a change and target someone else or another try if we've gone near.

There seems to be a lot of people mistaking stability with needing to have the same manager for at least 3 years and that we should appoint someone based on how long they are likely to last. 

We don't need this. We should be able to avoid the boom and bust model without needing to keep the same manager in place for years and years.

[Gav]

45 minutes ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

This has Simon Grayson written all over it. Cheap and desperate, the Venky dream. 

100%

He ticks every box.

I’ll be looking for something else to do on Saturday afternoons if these owners bring him or someone of his ilk to the club, because it’s then indisputable that they have zero intention of improving this football club.

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Gav

[G Somerset Rover]

16 minutes ago, glen9mullan said:

I just hope india choose to go with their own list and ignore the idiots at Ewood

Waggott and Suhail strike me as the chuckle brothers, but the above would surely be far worse as they’d appoint some HSH no mark.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Gavlar Somerset Rover!

[OldEwoodBlue]

It's all a right load of bollocks anyway.

We will only get fixed after they switch off the machine & we have been through administraton but they seem intent on keeping us in a perpetual coma for their amusement.

Venkys Out !

[chaddyrovers]

20 minutes ago, glen9mullan said:

If Sharpe is to be believed it seems Waggott has been that guy on a night out who won't chat a girl up, sits on a stool and hopes at 10 to 2 some girl will select him.

When have we become a club where we dont actively chase our own target?

If reports are to be believed, we will pick from applicants, no bloody wonder agents have had a party at Ewood.

Its laziness, and quite frankly embarrassing.

I just hope india choose to go with their own list and ignore the idiots at Ewood

How would India go and appoint a head coach like Farke and who would do the talking? 

What happens if Farke and Carvalhal have applied for the head coach job to Waggott? 

 

[lraC]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

How would India go and appoint a head coach like Farke and who would do the talking? 

What happens if Farke and Carvalhal have applied for the head coach job to Waggott? 

 

if they have, the sifting will sort them out, as they will be far too expensive.

Coyle mark 2 is probably earmarked in India, just in case the Billy Smarts circus act has forgotten how to deliver the purest comedy around.

[OldEwoodBlue]

12 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I had hoped for a clean sweep and fresh start on coaching after 5 years of the same names and faces. It seems the club wishes to prioritise saving money on a couple of pay-offs or prioritises keeping nice lads in jobs than it does bringing in the best staff possible.

It is merely the next round of managed decline. Give it a year and it will all feel like our normal level. Accepted and celebrated by some.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

53 minutes ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

This has Simon Grayson written all over it. Cheap and desperate, the Venky dream. 

I really fecking hope not!

[OldEwoodBlue]

1 minute ago, lraC said:

if they have, the sifting will sort them out, as they will be far too expensive.

Coyle mark 2 is probably earmarked in India, just in case the Billy Smarts circus act has forgotten how to deliver the purest comedy around.

Yep.

Fans definition for criteria of "outstanding candidate" poles apart from what they are actually looking for.

Essential - cheap and humble

Desireable - good coach

[chaddyrovers]

17 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Lets suppose we appoint someone on the basis they are going to be head coach and not manager, and therefore will have to relinquish some power to the sporting director on player recruitment and coaching staff. What happens in the interval between head coach and sporting directors arriving? Who is responsible for identifying and signing players? 

Is a head coach really going to tolerate being brought in and then having a sporting director imposed on them where there may be a clash of ideas, personalities?

The recruitment department will have identify players already and will continue to work on scouting players. 

It's important that Sporting Director and head coach get on and work together. No Sporting Director will force signings on the head coach but sign players that fit into head coach tactics and the type of players he wants for the position we need a signing for. Head Coach will have a say in who we target but the sporting director tends to decide the player. 

 

17 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I have to say I am baffled by this sporting director

maybe we are waiting for a certain candidate to leave a club? 

18 minutes ago, JHRover said:

The more time that passes the more concerned I am that this is merely going to be a powerless 'head coach' brought in to work within the existing system - which means alongside Lowe, Benson and Johnson and whatever people we have dealing with things behind the scenes.

This will be discuss in interviews but most people will want to bring in 2 or 3 people with them but keep 1 or 2 people who are familiar with the club and know the players like Souness did when he came in with Tony Parkes. 

I think we the new head coach will be allow to bring in his own number and goalkeeper coach but Johnson will stay on. 

[PeteJD13]

I don’t get the obsession with a sporting director who’ll have no power and very little influence. Venus has been doing that role for 2 years now. If we cannot even get the managerial search right, and our owners are being as useless as ever it’s a pointless job, that’ll be filled by another ill equipped no mark like senior 

[Miller11]

There is at least one person among our fanbase who would be happy if we reappointed Kean and Coyle… just as long as we gave them the titles of Sporting Director and Head Coach.

[K-Hod]

11 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

Mowbray was talking utter garbage after his toy out the pram throwing episode and fall out with his back room staff 🤬

Have you ever considered how long it takes to review a large quantity of applications and vast interest in the job? 
if you are serious about a lack of planning going on behind the scenes you really haven’t got a clue 

Then how does every other club manage to replace managers so quickly?

[OldEwoodBlue]

Anyhow, today is a good day.

Either Burnley or Leeds are getting relegated and there is absolutely nothing Venkys can do to fuck it up.

[JHRover]

24 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

The recruitment department will have identify players already and will continue to work on scouting players. 

It's important that Sporting Director and head coach get on and work together. No Sporting Director will force signings on the head coach but sign players that fit into head coach tactics and the type of players he wants for the position we need a signing for. Head Coach will have a say in who we target but the sporting director tends to decide the player. 

 

maybe we are waiting for a certain candidate to leave a club? 

This will be discuss in interviews but most people will want to bring in 2 or 3 people with them but keep 1 or 2 people who are familiar with the club and know the players like Souness did when he came in with Tony Parkes. 

I think we the new head coach will be allow to bring in his own number and goalkeeper coach but Johnson will stay on. 

As I say I will believe it when I see it but these sort of steps would fly in the face and contrast with everything they have done to date during their 'stewardship' of the Club.

I have no problem with the head coach / sporting director model. In fact I have come to the conclusion that this is necessary and probably the only way things will work out here with owners who refuse to come to the UK and who operate in such a bizarre way.

People will say they have learned lessons and will now do things differently. I hope so. But it is worth remembering that under Mowbray very recently we still had the old fashioned structure with him basically running everything at the club from the top down and even, at least for some time, was more powerful than the CEO. So it will be quite a drastic turnaround to simply appoint a head coach. 

To me the owners have shown no desire nor interest  in putting in place a sensible structure that will enable the club to progress without its fortunes being tied directly to the presence of a particular manager. It was the same under Bowyer - left to do it all himself - did a reasonable job but when the time came for a change it was a huge upheaval. 

We don't tend to approach or bring in anyone who is employed elsewhere. 

My interpretation of things is that one of the middle man - Pasha, Waggott or both - have concluded the head coach structure is the way to go here. I agree with that. But actually delivering such a structure - getting the right people into the right positions at the right times - is easier said than done especially when your focus is on doing things as cheaply or as easily as possible.

The way to do it of course is to headhunt a sporting director with experience of working at a similar club, bring him in and delegate footballing decisions to him. But this process should already be at its conclusion - it is already becoming too late for such an individual to contribute to key areas such as appointing the next first team manager and recruiting half a new team this summer. 

You refer to the 'recruitment department' but these people are analysts and scouts not people who decide who we are signing. There has to be an individual - manager or sporting director - who goes through that information and takes responsibility for getting deals done and how those perform.

If a head coach comes in before the end of the month, which I think is looking unlikely, then that bloke is going to need to know exactly what he has to work with and will need to crack on with getting signings lined up. What we are seemingly planning on doing is then dropping an as yet unidentified sporting director into the mix, who might have completely different ideas on things half way through the summer. Just seems a backward way of doing it.

We've seen attempts at this before - Coyle was manager, we than randomly appointed a Director of Football (Paul Senior) mid way through the season who talked the talk but clearly wasn't qualified for the role, and then after one window and a few months he left and wasn't replaced. So whatever was going on there clearly wasn't planned, thought out or stuck to in any way. Mowbray just got on a plane to India, got his new contract and was able to run the club himself for 5 years.

It is going to need much more coherency this time around, yet the people responsible for that are the same.

[davulsukur]

54 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

How would India go and appoint a head coach like Farke and who would do the talking? 

What happens if Farke and Carvalhal have applied for the head coach job to Waggott? 

 

Why can't the multi billionaire owners come to the UK for a bit to deal with such a crucial decision on the ground? 

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

45 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

Yep.

Fans definition for criteria of "outstanding candidate" poles apart from what they are actually looking for.

Essential - cheap and humble

Desireable - good coach

 

' Will toe the Party line'

[chaddyrovers]

32 minutes ago, PeteJD13 said:

I don’t get the obsession with a sporting director who’ll have no power and very little influence. Venus has been doing that role for 2 years now. If we cannot even get the managerial search right, and our owners are being as useless as ever it’s a pointless job, that’ll be filled by another ill equipped no mark like senior 

How do you know he will have no influence? and I thought you were in favour of this structure when we discuss previously? 

How do you know we aren't getting the head coach search right? 

24 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

There is at least one person among our fanbase who would be happy if we reappointed Kean and Coyle… just as long as we gave them the titles of Sporting Director and Head Coach.

another one of your low blow dig at me. Its almost a weekly thing. 

And just for the record I wouldn't be happy with either of them. Now both applying their trade in Scottish football. 

I just think a Sporting Director head coach structure suits the club and its works at many clubs like Norwich, Brentford, Forest, Huddersfield just to name a few people. 

18 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Then how does every other club manage to replace managers so quickly?

Have QPR replace Warburton yet? 

Have Burnley replace Dyche with a permanent replacement? 

Its took Newcastle nearly 3 weeks to replace Bruce with Eddie Howe and they interview several candidates before picking him despite billions and billions of pounds ownership 

[chaddyrovers]

10 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

Why can't the multi billionaire owners come to the UK for a bit to deal with such a crucial decision on the ground? 

for me, they can make a decision in India about the appointment or even rectify Pasha and Waggott decision who to appoint? 

 

[chaddyrovers]

23 minutes ago, JHRover said:

As I say I will believe it when I see it but these sort of steps would fly in the face and contrast with everything they have done to date during their 'stewardship' of the Club.

I have no problem with the head coach / sporting director model. In fact I have come to the conclusion that this is necessary and probably the only way things will work out here with owners who refuse to come to the UK and who operate in such a bizarre way.

People will say they have learned lessons and will now do things differently. I hope so. But it is worth remembering that under Mowbray very recently we still had the old fashioned structure with him basically running everything at the club from the top down and even, at least for some time, was more powerful than the CEO. So it will be quite a drastic turnaround to simply appoint a head coach. 

To me the owners have shown no desire nor interest  in putting in place a sensible structure that will enable the club to progress without its fortunes being tied directly to the presence of a particular manager. It was the same under Bowyer - left to do it all himself - did a reasonable job but when the time came for a change it was a huge upheaval. 

We don't tend to approach or bring in anyone who is employed elsewhere. 

My interpretation of things is that one of the middle man - Pasha, Waggott or both - have concluded the head coach structure is the way to go here. I agree with that. But actually delivering such a structure - getting the right people into the right positions at the right times - is easier said than done especially when your focus is on doing things as cheaply or as easily as possible.

The way to do it of course is to headhunt a sporting director with experience of working at a similar club, bring him in and delegate footballing decisions to him. But this process should already be at its conclusion - it is already becoming too late for such an individual to contribute to key areas such as appointing the next first team manager and recruiting half a new team this summer. 

You refer to the 'recruitment department' but these people are analysts and scouts not people who decide who we are signing. There has to be an individual - manager or sporting director - who goes through that information and takes responsibility for getting deals done and how those perform.

If a head coach comes in before the end of the month, which I think is looking unlikely, then that bloke is going to need to know exactly what he has to work with and will need to crack on with getting signings lined up. What we are seemingly planning on doing is then dropping an as yet unidentified sporting director into the mix, who might have completely different ideas on things half way through the summer. Just seems a backward way of doing it.

We've seen attempts at this before - Coyle was manager, we than randomly appointed a Director of Football (Paul Senior) mid way through the season who talked the talk but clearly wasn't qualified for the role, and then after one window and a few months he left and wasn't replaced. So whatever was going on there clearly wasn't planned, thought out or stuck to in any way. Mowbray just got on a plane to India, got his new contract and was able to run the club himself for 5 years.

It is going to need much more coherency this time around, yet the people responsible for that are the same.

You made alot of good points there JH. 

Yes I agree we need to appoint the right people for these roles and need to correct experience. 

I am in favour of appointing an experience head coach like Farke or Carvalhal. Then someone like Stuart Webber from Norwich who might be leaving Norwich shortly or Steve Hitchen, the former Spurs Director of Technical Performance and chief scout there in the sporting director role. 

I am hoping we can get both appointment done before the end of May/start of June. Lets wait and see

Yes I know what our recruitment and scouting department contain but I know they are still scouting and analysing potential signings. We need a Sporting Director and Head coach in place to make decisions on potential signings tho we only need around 6 to 8 signings this summer. 

 

[Miller11]

17 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Its almost a weekly thing. 

From the man who repeats himself approximately every 17 minutes.

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

From the man who repeats himself approximately every 17 minutes.

well you can put me on ignore Duncan if you don't want to read my posts instead of you making sly digs at me wanting different footballing structure at their club and something that works at alot of clubs who have been promoted in recent seasons. 

Edited May 22, 2022 by chaddyrovers

[PeteJD13]

24 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

How do you know he will have no influence? and I thought you were in favour of this structure when we discuss previously? 

How do you know we aren't getting the head coach search right? 

another one of your low blow dig at me. Its almost a weekly thing. 

And just for the record I wouldn't be happy with either of them. Now both applying their trade in Scottish football. 

I just think a Sporting Director head coach structure suits the club and its works at many clubs like Norwich, Brentford, Forest, Huddersfield just to name a few people. 

Have QPR replace Warburton yet? 

Have Burnley replace Dyche with a permanent replacement? 

Its took Newcastle nearly 3 weeks to replace Bruce with Eddie Howe and they interview several candidates before picking him despite billions and billions of pounds ownership 

Because they never do and expecting them to change after 12 years doesn’t make sense 

[arbitro]

Jesus wept. Now there is talk of the model they want to follow. Who says so, who has advised them, what structure do they have to interview candidates based on this supposed model? They are once again winging it as they have done with almost every managerial appointment. Cheap - tick, subservient - tick, under performing - tick, doesn't ask for anything - tick. There you have it, the credentials needed to manage our club in the last twelve years. They aren't bothered, they haven't watched us play live for around eight years - I doubt they even watch us on a live stream. I'd wager they can't even name five players. And yet still some are optimistic and have faith and trust in them.

There is a strong rumour circulating about Brockhall once again. For anybody who knows the Academy layout this involves cutting back the trees which run down the side of the main pitch and also the trees behind the top goals on the same pitch. The supposed plan is then to extend the size of the Academy site and ultimately to incorporate it into the STC too. This complies with the covenant currently in effect at the Academy. Has anybody else heard similar?

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Jesus wept. Now there is talk of the model they want to follow. Who says so, who has advised them, what structure do they have to interview candidates based on this supposed model? They are once again winging it as they have done with almost every managerial appointment. Cheap - tick, subservient - tick, under performing - tick, doesn't ask for anything - tick. There you have it, the credentials needed to manage our club in the last twelve years. They aren't bothered, they haven't watched us play live for around eight years - I doubt they even watch us on a live stream. I'd wager they can't even name five players. And yet still some are optimistic and have faith and trust in them.

There is a strong rumour circulating about Brockhall once again. For anybody who knows the Academy layout this involves cutting back the trees which run down the side of the main pitch and also the trees behind the top goals on the same pitch. The supposed plan is then to extend the size of the Academy site and ultimately to incorporate it into the STC too. This complies with the covenant currently in effect at the Academy. Has anybody else heard similar?

I'd heard something ages ago, but club discovered it wasn't possible as the land behind the trees is on quite a large slope and is really boggy. Would take an effort to make it work that makes the whole thing not worthwhile apparently.