Jon Dahl Tomasson - Sweden coach

[Miller11]

2 hours ago, Atko's Engine said:

"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again."

"Practice makes perfect."

Two well known adages that highlight the importance of keeping on plugging away at what you believe in & standing by your principles.

There’s also “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”.

There’s no doubt we have looked improved when we have mixed it up a bit, and if we continue to do so I’m sure most fans will be happy enough.  I’m struggling to think of any goals for that have come as a direct result of our playing out from the back… plenty in the goals against column though. Being so rigidly stuck on that style of play killed us against Burnley and Preston, the timing and the opponents making these the worst possible games to collapse in. The worry is that we will again stubbornly persist with it (to our detriment) when the pitches get better, or the personnel changes.

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, Mellor Rover said:

Got to be the only club in England whose fans are unhappy with a manager who has us third after 5 years of not even threatening the playoffs. Been left with some decent ish players but also some absolute shite. 

JRC and Garrett (who was good yday and I have future hopes for) wouldn't get into any other team in the division, genuinely. I don't think either would get in to any of the bottom 3's XI. Same for Edun and Hirst. 

Left with 2 strikers, neither of which can control a football or hold it up. A midfield that has no bite in it. No pace on the wings and a bench full of U23's. But he's using what we do have (3 fantastic CBs and goalkeeper) very well. 

What do people actually want to see, if not this passing game? Direct football? Long balls up to Gallagher? Did anyone see him yesterday? If you think this football is bad, let's all think about what 90 minutes of THAT would look like.

He was left with not even half a squad that's any good, and yet after the half way point he has us third in the league and the two teams above us, one spent 25 million last window and the other has a £30mil midfielder and 2 £20million strikers in their ranks.

All the talk of losing 12 games, I'd lose another 12 in a heartbeat if it resulted in a top 6 place. And if we fall short with this current crop (which I expect as it objectively is not good enough to expect a top 6 place), then I will see what targets he and the club have in mind and what this squad looks like come the end of the next summer window to actually play this way successfully (above third place?) next season. 

Worth bearing in mind that Norwich finished 16th in their first season with Farke, and ended up romping the championship twice with some of the best football I've watched a visiting team play at Ewood, but there's no football better than winning football.

Undoubtedly being third is more than satisfactory to all but a tiny minority of our fan base, which is why I am a little uneasy about the growing narrative to the contrary. We technically did challenge for the play offs last season as big as the second half dip was last year, as we were in with a mathematical chance going into the final 2 games.

But anyway, I think we often look threatening when we try and turn teams, but ultimately it doesn't have to be one extreme or another. There are times when we have played the ball even in our own half effectively, perhaps when winning as opposed to lumping it back for our opponents to instantly come back at us. That can create anxiety but that comes in the spells where we do it constantly and invariably lose the ball in dangerous areas.

The standard of this division is poor though and we have some quite powerful runners, especially Brereton and Gallagher and it can be quite common to see unforced errors like from Kipre when he totally miskicked early on. When we get the ball forward quickly especially on the counter, and often into the channels initially, we look a threat. We aren't good at unlocking defences that are well organised.

One thing I would wonder is what the reaction is if our second half of the season was far worse than our first, seeing us drop from 3rd to below the play offs. Tomasson could say "project" until he is blue in the face but I don't think it would go down too well as we saw last year.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Undoubtedly being third is more than satisfactory to all but a tiny minority of our fan base, which is why I am a little uneasy about the growing narrative to the contrary. We technically did challenge for the play offs last season as big as the second half dip was last year, as we were in with a mathematical chance going into the final 2 games.

But anyway, I think we often look threatening when we try and turn teams, but ultimately it doesn't have to be one extreme or another. There are times when we have played the ball even in our own half effectively, perhaps when winning as opposed to lumping it back for our opponents to instantly come back at us. That can create anxiety but that comes in the spells where we do it constantly and invariably lose the ball in dangerous areas.

The standard of this division is poor though and we have some quite powerful runners, especially Brereton and Gallagher and it can be quite common to see unforced errors like from Kipre when he totally miskicked early on. When we get the ball forward quickly especially on the counter, and often into the channels initially, we look a threat. We aren't good at unlocking defences that are well organised.

One thing I would wonder is what the reaction is if our second half of the season was far worse than our first, seeing us drop from 3rd to below the play offs. Tomasson could say "project" until he is blue in the face but I don't think it would go down too well as we saw last year.

I'd agree with the last bit! Tomasson has done a minor miracle having us here for my money. If we can't make the most of it in the transfer market (for the second January in a row) questions will rightly be raised, only this time I hope it's towards the new recruitment team, Gregg Broughton, and the owners, and not Tomasson as this squad is currently not top 6 material. 

I also don't think he's the type to be happy being used as a dummy to take all the blame. If we don't back him, he'll be off back to Sweden/Norway and to another champions league threatening club no doubt. 

[roversfan99]

6 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

I'd agree with the last bit! Tomasson has done a minor miracle having us here for my money. If we can't make the most of it in the transfer market (for the second January in a row) questions will rightly be raised, only this time I hope it's towards the new recruitment team, Gregg Broughton, and the owners, and not Tomasson as this squad is currently not top 6 material. 

I also don't think he's the type to be happy being used as a dummy to take all the blame. If we don't back him, he'll be off back to Sweden/Norway and to another champions league threatening club no doubt. 

I guess its a difficult one with this structure in regards to judging on transfers and who takes responsibility.

Tomasson has insisted before that he does have final say and when signings were made they were always "our" targets implying a level of agreement. Of course they would say that regardless but essentially you could view it as Tomasson is actually getting help/manpower in helping him to get the players he wants, just as much as him not actively choosing. 

Regarding this window, I struggle to envisage anything other than a juggling of loans like last January. Our budgets are further limited by the inability to trade caused by the repeated allowances by the owners of contracts to expire. I dont recall many if any January splurges by them either. A bit of squad padding wont do the trick though.

[Roverthechimp]

JDT is being pilloried for the sins of others but it is his job to know the club he has joined - not least as frontman.

If he could just have come out and said - sorry we were gash in the derbies and that is a)on me and b)not ok then it would actually help.

That we will lose derbies in the future - no problem. That we aren’t ”up for them” or react quickly when getting outplayed and outbattled is not.

Being in or close to the playoffs is exceeding my expectations. 2 defenders signed and players being dropped regardless of who they are also above what has gone on before. Lucky? Yes but that is not a negative…

[Sweaty Gussets]

12 minutes ago, Roverthechimp said:

JDT is being pilloried for the sins of others but it is his job to know the club he has joined - not least as frontman.

If he could just have come out and said - sorry we were gash in the derbies and that is a)on me and b)not ok then it would actually help.

That we will lose derbies in the future - no problem. That we aren’t ”up for them” or react quickly when getting outplayed and outbattled is not.

Being in or close to the playoffs is exceeding my expectations. 2 defenders signed and players being dropped regardless of who they are also above what has gone on before. Lucky? Yes but that is not a negative…

He said in his post-match yesterday that the PNE performance wasn't good enough. 

[J*B]

If it makes you feel any better, the general consensus from people I speak to at Brockhall (physios, academy coaches, players) is that he’s brilliant and far more advanced/involved than anyone else we’ve had in recent memory. 

He’s identifying areas we are weak and has solutions that players and staff understand. 

He’s involving the senior players in decision making.

He’s taking a significant role within the U23s and Academy, turning up unexpectedly to see what is happening and has put together a clear vision for the team to work from.

He’s working in detail with the grounds team about how he wants the pitches for training and match day. 

He’s working with the physio team so that their role is more than just ‘how quickly can we get X back?’.

Basically, he’s very well respected and has generally made a good impression. 

I understand all criticism RE the way we are playing, the derby results, signings that haven't all hit etc. But based on what I’ve heard, there’s plenty of positives. 

[Roverthechimp]

7 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

He said in his post-match yesterday that the PNE performance wasn't good enough. 

Thanks - missed that and fair enough

[roversfan99]

41 minutes ago, J*B said:

If it makes you feel any better, the general consensus from people I speak to at Brockhall (physios, academy coaches, players) is that he’s brilliant and far more advanced/involved than anyone else we’ve had in recent memory. 

He’s identifying areas we are weak and has solutions that players and staff understand. 

He’s involving the senior players in decision making.

He’s taking a significant role within the U23s and Academy, turning up unexpectedly to see what is happening and has put together a clear vision for the team to work from.

He’s working in detail with the grounds team about how he wants the pitches for training and match day. 

He’s working with the physio team so that their role is more than just ‘how quickly can we get X back?’.

Basically, he’s very well respected and has generally made a good impression. 

I understand all criticism RE the way we are playing, the derby results, signings that haven't all hit etc. But based on what I’ve heard, there’s plenty of positives. 

I suppose that people within would say that, they would be foolish to say he is shit!

I don't think some that stuff is out of the ordinary, Mowbray had a group of senior players that he delegated to and went to a fair few under 21 games, obviously no way of knowing some of the other things. Wonder what Tomasson thinks about the pitch which has been under funded?

Ultimately to an extent, as you touch on he will be judged on signings (mixed so far) and results mainly which we can't argue much with at all.

[J*B]

39 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I suppose that people within would say that, they would be foolish to say he is shit!

I don't think some that stuff is out of the ordinary, Mowbray had a group of senior players that he delegated to and went to a fair few under 21 games, obviously no way of knowing some of the other things. Wonder what Tomasson thinks about the pitch which has been under funded?

Ultimately to an extent, as you touch on he will be judged on signings (mixed so far) and results mainly which we can't argue much with at all.

They all said Coyle was shit, often in front of his son at 6-a-side…!

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I guess its a difficult one with this structure in regards to judging on transfers and who takes responsibility.

Tomasson has insisted before that he does have final say and when signings were made they were always "our" targets implying a level of agreement. Of course they would say that regardless but essentially you could view it as Tomasson is actually getting help/manpower in helping him to get the players he wants, just as much as him not actively choosing. 

Regarding this window, I struggle to envisage anything other than a juggling of loans like last January. Our budgets are further limited by the inability to trade caused by the repeated allowances by the owners of contracts to expire. I dont recall many if any January splurges by them either. A bit of squad padding wont do the trick though.

Our targets as in Rovers targets

56 minutes ago, J*B said:

If it makes you feel any better, the general consensus from people I speak to at Brockhall (physios, academy coaches, players) is that he’s brilliant and far more advanced/involved than anyone else we’ve had in recent memory. 

He’s identifying areas we are weak and has solutions that players and staff understand. 

He’s involving the senior players in decision making.

He’s taking a significant role within the U23s and Academy, turning up unexpectedly to see what is happening and has put together a clear vision for the team to work from.

He’s working in detail with the grounds team about how he wants the pitches for training and match day. 

He’s working with the physio team so that their role is more than just ‘how quickly can we get X back?’.

Basically, he’s very well respected and has generally made a good impression. 

I understand all criticism RE the way we are playing, the derby results, signings that haven't all hit etc. But based on what I’ve heard, there’s plenty of positives. 

Its great that Staff at Rovers have positive and happy comments to make about JDT and the fact he is trying involved everyone at the club and make it about us being together as one. 

11 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I suppose that people within would say that, they would be foolish to say he is shit!

Did they? They might just being honest cos they feel he has been fresh of breathe air since he was appointed

11 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Wonder what Tomasson thinks about the pitch which has been under funded?

You are obsessed by the state of pitch nowadays. 

[Mike E]

1 hour ago, J*B said:

If it makes you feel any better, the general consensus from people I speak to at Brockhall (physios, academy coaches, players) is that he’s brilliant and far more advanced/involved than anyone else we’ve had in recent memory. 

He’s identifying areas we are weak and has solutions that players and staff understand. 

He’s involving the senior players in decision making.

He’s taking a significant role within the U23s and Academy, turning up unexpectedly to see what is happening and has put together a clear vision for the team to work from.

He’s working in detail with the grounds team about how he wants the pitches for training and match day. 

He’s working with the physio team so that their role is more than just ‘how quickly can we get X back?’.

Basically, he’s very well respected and has generally made a good impression. 

I understand all criticism RE the way we are playing, the derby results, signings that haven't all hit etc. But based on what I’ve heard, there’s plenty of positives. 

All the impression I get too.

Yes, the playing style (and results at times) are incredibly frustrating but I remember Hughesy's first season being incredibly rocky and inconsistent, and that was a season in which he was able to bring in Nelsen, Mokoena, and Savage in the January window.

It will be frustrating but I think JDT will come good and the fun will arrive after the next summer window.

[roversfan99]

10 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Our targets as in Rovers targets

Its great that Staff at Rovers have positive and happy comments to make about JDT and the fact he is trying involved everyone at the club and make it about us being together as one. 

Did they? They might just being honest cos they feel he has been fresh of breathe air since he was appointed

You are obsessed by the state of pitch nowadays. 

Believe it or not, I don't like our pitch being like a cabbage patch and I doubt Tomasson does either.

[Upside Down]

8 hours ago, Atko's Engine said:

"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again."

"Practice makes perfect."

Two well known adages that highlight the importance of keeping on plugging away at what you believe in & standing by your principles. Look at what Potter did with Brighton over a period of time, Dyche at Burnley, even Fergie at United way back when.

If JDT's approach had us languishing in the bottom third of the table then I could understand this point of view, but that's not where we are is it?

Yesterday was a good example of how we can mix it up; playing it around patiently, looking for opportunities, playing through the lines, using longer balls over the top or diagonally, or hoofing it when required. 

I just don't get the grief he receives, or your conclusion that he clearly doesn't know what he's doing. 

So the Burnley, PNE and Wigan embarrassments were all good then? Just practice matches I take it?

This is Championship football where the steaks are incredibly high and local derby games are not the time or place to be fucking about 'practicing' something that has been proven time and time again to be totally ineffective at best and absolutely suicidal at worst.

[Atko's Engine]

13 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

So the Burnley, PNE and Wigan embarrassments were all good then? Just practice matches I take it?

This is Championship football where the steaks are incredibly high and local derby games are not the time or place to be fucking about 'practicing' something that has been proven time and time again to be totally ineffective at best and absolutely suicidal at worst.

The Burnley game was a very stringy rump steak sure, I said as much on here post match; I didn't see the other two matches but clearly they were no better.

In mentioning those 3 though, you've omitted mentioning the equally good 28 day-matured sirloin performances & results v Swansea, Blackpool & Watford, for example. I'm just saying there's 2 sides to the coin but everyone seems to focus on the poor whilst ignoring (or worse, dismissing as fortunate) the good.

We're still 3rd, for me I'd take losing all 8 of our derby matches in the regular season if it meant we qualify for the playoffs, because that's what really counts come May, right? 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

8 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

The Burnley game was a very stringy rump steak sure, I said as much on here post match; I didn't see the other two matches but clearly they were no better.

In mentioning those 3 though, you've omitted mentioning the equally good 28 day-matured sirloin performances & results v Swansea, Blackpool & Watford, for example. I'm just saying there's 2 sides to the coin but everyone seems to focus on the poor whilst ignoring (or worse, dismissing as fortunate) the good.

We're still 3rd, for me I'd take losing all 8 of our derby matches in the regular season if it meant we qualify for the playoffs, because that's what really counts come May, right? 

No, winning the play off final is what really counts. Anything less and I’d swap to win the other derbies. You get nothing for losing in the play offs.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Believe it or not, I don't like our pitch being like a cabbage patch and I doubt Tomasson does either.

Don't think anyone does but given that we trained on it, played 4 times on it and the bad weather we had, its was expected let's be honest

[Atko's Engine]

13 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

No, winning the play off final is what really counts. Anything less and I’d swap to win the other derbies. You get nothing for losing in the play offs.

You get nothing for winning 8 derbies either, other than bragging rights & a chance to fight for the L1 title next season. I'd rather lose in the playoffs than that.

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Believe it or not, I don't like our pitch being like a cabbage patch and I doubt Tomasson does either.

Yep, why do we do this every season.  Train on Ewood, there's so many 1st class surfaces in the area they could use to keep the pitch pristine....just mind boggling

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

13 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

You get nothing for winning 8 derbies either, other than bragging rights & a chance to fight for the L1 title next season. I'd rather lose in the playoffs than that.

Really ? Do you live in the Blackburn area ?

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Yep, why do we do this every season.  Train on Ewood, there's so many 1st class surfaces in the area they could use to keep the pitch pristine....just mind boggling

I would be amazed if no other teams trained on their pitches during the big freeze, and I dont think that doing so a couple of times is the main reason for the pitch being so bad. It needed relaying after 30 years and Venkys decided to change their mind and put their money away. Now we see the consequences.

[Atko's Engine]

Just now, Atko's Engine said:

Not anymore I live near Knutsford, but there's a Burnley fan in the village who I've been avoiding for 2 months!

But anyway, however realistic it might be the choice between winning 8 local derbies but going down, compared to winning none but then reaching the playoffs, literally should be a no brainer for any fan who wants the club to get up off its knees.

Not anymore I live near Knutsford, but there's a Burnley fan in the village who I've been avoiding for 2 months!

But anyway, however realistic it might be the choice between winning 8 local derbies but going down, compared to winning none but then reaching the playoffs, literally should be a no brainer for any fan who wants the club to get up off its knees.

[EgyptianPete]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Our targets as in Rovers targets

Its great that Staff at Rovers have positive and happy comments to make about JDT and the fact he is trying involved everyone at the club and make it about us being together as one. 

Did they? They might just being honest cos they feel he has been fresh of breathe air since he was appointed

You are obsessed by the state of pitch nowadays. 

Good grief it has pissed it down the last week what do you expect of the pitch, 

 

[chaddyrovers]

39 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

You get nothing for winning 8 derbies either, other than bragging rights & a chance to fight for the L1 title next season. I'd rather lose in the playoffs than that.

I rather get promote and if that meant losing a couple of derbies for that so be it. I work in Preston and I worked with PNE fans, Dingle fan and Blackpool fan at my work. Apart from a few comments about from PNE fans and the dingle fan they have been quiet. I have a bet on it the game with them but that's about it. 

 

 

[Sparks Rover]

37 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I would be amazed if no other teams trained on their pitches during the big freeze, .

I'd be amazed if any other team used their pitch.....I could find them a good pitch to use anytime and leave Ewood fit.