Jon Dahl Tomasson - Sweden coach

[Upside Down]

1 hour ago, Atko's Engine said:

You get nothing for winning 8 derbies either, other than bragging rights & a chance to fight for the L1 title next season. I'd rather lose in the playoffs than that.

You get 24 points as well as bragging rights.

You get nothing for losing eight derbies by giving totally gutless performances. 

 

The mental gymnastics going on round here really are something to behold.

[Exiled_Rover]

9 hours ago, Atko's Engine said:

As I said, each to their own but I try to look at things both subjectively as a Rovers fan, as objectively as a realist.

What JDT does & what the team / players do game to game is not the only thing that impacts the outcome. He's got us far better organised than we were. But it's also injuries, form, opposition, weather, referees, pitch, KO time, luck, all of which conspire on any given day to bring an outcome. I would argue that with us being 3rd after 24 games, he's done far more right than he has done wrong in his brief tenure to date, and has coped better with those variables than 21 other managers in the division. 

I think he's been brilliant, but it's what he (and Broughton) does in the transfer window that will make or break his time here.

We can finish in the Playoffs this year with 2 or 3 shrewd signings - I'm hoping Broughton has the contacts to make that happen.

[JamieUK]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

I'd be amazed if any other team used their pitch.....I could find them a good pitch to use anytime and leave Ewood fit.

The issue was, the pitches we would use were frozen. Not sure how many local pitches have undersoil heating which would have solved that? Though I'd have thought the indoor ones would be used when conditions don't allow...

[Mattyblue]

Well they used to until TM suddenly decided last season that he didn’t like the indoor pitches… and now JDT has carried it on. 

Crazy, and Ewood is now a cabbage patch as a result.
 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Mattyblue

[Darrenbot]

I will never understand why you can't just train indoors when its frozen outside,why must you have to train on grass,do you suddenly forget how to play on grass if youre made to train indoors for a few games.

[simongarnerisgod]

the pitch has now got nearly  a month to recover,that is unless we keep training on it🙄

[Atko's Engine]

2 hours ago, Upside Down said:

You get 24 points as well as bragging rights.

You get nothing for losing eight derbies by giving totally gutless performances. 

 

The mental gymnastics going on round here really are something to behold.

There's no mental gymnastics going on here, the choice being discussed was lose the derbies but get into the playoffs, or win the derbies but miss out on the playoffs. 

Surely getting into the playoffs is the goal if 1st or 2nd is unachievable, regardless of who we win the points from??

 

[Mercer]

7 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

No, winning the play off final is what really counts. Anything less and I’d swap to win the other derbies. You get nothing for losing in the play offs.

Nail on head!

[broadsword]

12 hours ago, Upside Down said:

You get 24 points as well as bragging rights.

You get nothing for losing eight derbies by giving totally gutless performances. 

 

The mental gymnastics going on round here really are something to behold.

Would Jack Walker have shrugged off losing to Burnley? Not even losing really, more like abject surrender. Would he fucking bollocks like. Think big.

 

After twelve years of night of the living venkys, there's a pow mindset developing.

Whatever happened to think big? The only thing that's big about rovers these days is the debt. Well that and the thick layer of shite that's coating the ground.

Edited January 3, 2023 by broadsword

[Atko's Engine]

Jeez, the be all & end all of this season is not beating Burnley, Preston, Blackpool & Wigan. It's coming 1st or 2nd, or 3rd - 6th & winning the playoffs. That's thinking big; thinking just about local bragging rights is small-minded (as symbolically important as they obviously are).

Put it another way. If Jack was still here, would he have sacked JDT after the Burney & Preston games? Course not.

If you think beating local rivals is all that counts, then winning the Prem title in 94/95 or the League Cup in 2002 must've meant nothing to you, and you'd prefer it if we'd have won the Manx Cup instead!

[47er]

31 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

If you think beating local rivals is all that counts, t

Not one poster thinks that!!

[broadsword]

42 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

Jeez, the be all & end all of this season is not beating Burnley, Preston, Blackpool & Wigan. It's coming 1st or 2nd, or 3rd - 6th & winning the playoffs. That's thinking big; thinking just about local bragging rights is small-minded (as symbolically important as they obviously are).

Put it another way. If Jack was still here, would he have sacked JDT after the Burney & Preston games? Course not.

If you think beating local rivals is all that counts, then winning the Prem title in 94/95 or the League Cup in 2002 must've meant nothing to you, and you'd prefer it if we'd have won the Manx Cup instead!

Logical fallacy, the aim is to get promoted, but getting turned over by your local rivals to the tune of seven goals in two games is a leading indicator that says there are real problems. Jack would never have appointed him in the first place, but certainly if he'd heard the geezer say the aim is not too get promoted while we're sat in third, his feet wouldn't have touched the ground.

But then again, if Jack were here, I'm sure a lot of things would be different

[Upside Down]

1 hour ago, Atko's Engine said:

Jeez, the be all & end all of this season is not beating Burnley, Preston, Blackpool & Wigan. It's coming 1st or 2nd, or 3rd - 6th & winning the playoffs. That's thinking big; thinking just about local bragging rights is small-minded (as symbolically important as they obviously are).

Put it another way. If Jack was still here, would he have sacked JDT after the Burney & Preston games? Course not.

If you think beating local rivals is all that counts, then winning the Prem title in 94/95 or the League Cup in 2002 must've meant nothing to you, and you'd prefer it if we'd have won the Manx Cup instead!

Mental. Gymnastics. 

[Atko's Engine]

3 hours ago, broadsword said:

Jack would never have appointed him in the first place,

There it is, a pre-formed judgement that you won't budge from despite lots of valid evidence to the contrary. It's clear that you were never on board with JDT's appointment in the first place even before he set foot in the door, so as a consequence he's fighting an uphill battle and being judged as no good on the back of a few admittedly poor performances and results, whilst the bigger picture is being overlooked.

By the way Jack (God rest his soul) oversaw the appointments of such successes as Ray Harford (RIP), Roy Hodgson & Brian Kidd. As wonderful for this club as Jack was, he was far from perfect in his managerial appointments. 

[Sweaty Gussets]

We're 3rd on merit

The football isn't that great, but getting better. 

We win a lot of games

We lose a lot of games

We're in a great position with 20 games to go, far better than most imagined at the start of the year. 

Some signings have been excellent, some average. some poor. 

Based on the above JDT is doing a good job, considering he's only been here 6 months and he's implementing a lot of changes. 

 

[Atko's Engine]

7 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

We're 3rd on merit

The football isn't that great, but getting better. 

We win a lot of games

We lose a lot of games

We're in a great position with 20 games to go, far better than most imagined at the start of the year. 

Some signings have been excellent, some average. some poor. 

Based on the above JDT is doing a good job, considering he's only been here 6 months and he's implementing a lot of changes. 

 

Very true. Are we really having a poor season or boring to watch when all we do is either win games or lose them, and we've won more than we've lost? Don't get me wrong, I'd be happier if we'd won more than we have, or drawn some of those that we've lost, but I don't think we're boring to watch overall, nor underperforming overall.

If anything we're overperforming, but I guess that must be in spite of JDT. How stupid & mentally gymnastical of me!

 

 

[Mattyblue]

A lot of it is psychological. If we’d have drawn a few of those bad defeats, and some of the wins too - so still on pretty much the same points we are on now, I bet the general feeling around the club would be much better.

Unlike the charge up the table last November/December, we’ve not put any kind of run together since August, so never really feeling like we are getting some momentum behind us. Every win feeling like it’s followed by a stinking defeat, especially the two shockers to local rivals bookending a mid season break.

It’s certainly true that draws don’t really do a lot for your league position, but a nice unbeaten run does a lot of the mood!

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Mattyblue

[roversfan99]

Entertainment is subjective, I personally have found very little entertainment in the way that we play under Tomasson, it is very slow, we don't create chances very often, there isn't much scope for flair and you are seldom on the edge of your seat. Purely aesthetically, I would say that the last manager to display such boring football disregarding effectiveness for a moment is Appleton. 

I am also of the opinion that if we win, I am totally satisfied and happy and the level of performance is irrelevant in comparison. I'd take as many boring 1 nil wins as possible please. But still the performance is worthy of discussion on a wider scale.

It probably makes it even more boring that every time we concede first, it feels like game over straight away. Whereas aside from 2 slips ups in the last week, when we score we usually grind out a win.

[broadsword]

2 hours ago, Atko's Engine said:

There it is, a pre-formed judgement that you won't budge from despite lots of valid evidence to the contrary. It's clear that you were never on board with JDT's appointment in the first place even before he set foot in the door, so as a consequence he's fighting an uphill battle and being judged as no good on the back of a few admittedly poor performances and results, whilst the bigger picture is being overlooked.

By the way Jack (God rest his soul) oversaw the appointments of such successes as Ray Harford (RIP), Roy Hodgson & Brian Kidd. As wonderful for this club as Jack was, he was far from perfect in his managerial appointments. 

Not sure what all of this valid evidence is. Did Jack ever appoint someone without a track record in this country? No. He always went for what he saw as the best available man for the job at that point.

Anyway, time will tell. If he somehow manages to get us promoted, then I'll be big enough to admit that I got it wrong, and of course I'll be made up. We'll just have to wait and see.

[Mashed Potatoes]

7 minutes ago, broadsword said:

Not sure what all of this valid evidence is. Did Jack ever appoint someone without a track record in this country? No. He always went for what he saw as the best available man for the job at that point.

Anyway, time will tell. If he somehow manages to get us promoted, then I'll be big enough to admit that I got it wrong, and of course I'll be made up. We'll just have to wait and see.

 

7 minutes ago, broadsword said:

Not sure what all of this valid evidence is. Did Jack ever appoint someone without a track record in this country? No. He always went for what he saw as the best available man for the job at that point.

Anyway, time will tell. If he somehow manages to get us promoted, then I'll be big enough to admit that I got it wrong, and of course I'll be made up. We'll just have to wait and see.

Brian Kidd only had a track record as an assistant - hanging on to Ferguson;s coat-tails.

[broadsword]

3 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

 

Brian Kidd only had a track record as an assistant - hanging on to Ferguson;s coat-tails.

And?

Still a track record in this country in coaching, at the then biggest most successful club over a long period of time.

Just nit-picking now, the original point long-since lost.

[Mashed Potatoes]

4 minutes ago, broadsword said:

And?

Still a track record in this country in coaching, at the then biggest most successful club over a long period of time.

Just nit-picking now, the original point long-since lost.

But the game is littered with coaches and assistants who fail to make the grade as managers - Walker's judgement was poor regarding Kidd.

[rigger]

28 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

But the game is littered with coaches and assistants who fail to make the grade as managers - Walker's judgement was poor regarding Kidd.

Jack Walkers worst bit of judgement, was thinking that his children had as much love for the Rovers as he did.

[Mashed Potatoes]

2 minutes ago, rigger said:

Jack Walkers worst bit of judgement, was thinking that his children had as much love for the Rovers as he did.

Why didn't he ask them ?

[rigger]

2 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Why didn't he ask them ?

Perhaps he did.