Jon Dahl Tomasson - Sweden coach

[Mashed Potatoes]

1 minute ago, rigger said:

Perhaps he did.

If none of them were bothering to attend games before he died he made an horrendous mistake in the arrangements he made for after his death. He should have carved out a separate entity to own and run the club rather than merging the club in to his other interests. As the saying goes, never mix business with pleasure.

[roversfan99]

Even amidst their disinterest they did a better job of owning us than the twats who followed!

[Mashed Potatoes]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Even amidst their disinterest they did a better job of owning us than the twats who followed!

Absolutely.

[frosty]

2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Unlike the charge up the table last November/December, we’ve not put any kind of run together since August, so never really feeling like we are getting some momentum behind us. 

 

We did win four in a row in October, but that run followed the shocker at Wigan which, albeit to a lesser extent, is a result people haven't really recovered from along with the Burnley/Preston games (especially when you see how bad Wigan are....). And then after the four wins it was a terrible performance at Coventry, so you're right about stinking defeats following wins.

 

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Purely aesthetically, I would say that the last manager to display such boring football disregarding effectiveness for a moment is Appleton. 

 

Lambert after his initial honeymoon I'd say, sort of December 2015/January 2016. Terrible. Albeit that was only a couple of months and after that I did think we'd started to play some decent stuff until he decided he couldn't be assed anymore.

[roversfan99]

13 minutes ago, frosty said:

We did win four in a row in October, but that run followed the shocker at Wigan which, albeit to a lesser extent, is a result people haven't really recovered from along with the Burnley/Preston games (especially when you see how bad Wigan are....). And then after the four wins it was a terrible performance at Coventry, so you're right about stinking defeats following wins.

 

Lambert after his initial honeymoon I'd say, sort of December 2015/January 2016. Terrible. Albeit that was only a couple of months and after that I did think we'd started to play some decent stuff until he decided he couldn't be assed anymore.

Yep, Lambert football was dull too. I think some have a better view of him than his actual results and football warranted because he did well with PR to make it look like he was making a stand. He then did the same for the 2 or 3 jobs that he had after that having struggled in them all.

[Atko's Engine]

1 hour ago, broadsword said:

Not sure what all of this valid evidence is. Did Jack ever appoint someone without a track record in this country? No. He always went for what he saw as the best available man for the job at that point.

Anyway, time will tell. If he somehow manages to get us promoted, then I'll be big enough to admit that I got it wrong, and of course I'll be made up. We'll just have to wait and see.

The valid evidence that JDT has done well is the league table. In June when he took over, with 6 first teamers having left on frees or returned to their parent clubs, most anticipated us being closer to 3rd bottom, not 3rd top.

I'm not sure why you've gone down the "Jack would never have appointed him" route, but seeing how you have you should recall that Jack appointed Hodgson; he also got Eriksen to agree to come here. Neither of them had a record in this country. It's a different world now anyway. He also appointed Kidd & Harford, who respectively had zero & little  managerial experience at all. Thinking about it, Jack's only truly successful managerial appointment was Kenny.

But yes, we'll see if JDT achieves promotion. If he does then that's a massive overachievement, even getting 6th upwards would be given the circs. Realistically he should be given more time to instill his ideas & get his own personnel in. See what J*B said above re how well respected he seems to be at Ewood.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Atko's Engine

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Entertainment is subjective, I personally have found very little entertainment in the way that we play under Tomasson, it is very slow, we don't create chances very often, there isn't much scope for flair and you are seldom on the edge of your seat. Purely aesthetically, I would say that the last manager to display such boring football disregarding effectiveness for a moment is Appleton. 

I am also of the opinion that if we win, I am totally satisfied and happy and the level of performance is irrelevant in comparison. I'd take as many boring 1 nil wins as possible please. But still the performance is worthy of discussion on a wider scale.

It probably makes it even more boring that every time we concede first, it feels like game over straight away. Whereas aside from 2 slips ups in the last week, when we score we usually grind out a win.

Regarding slow play. The best players can normally be counted to make “ the right decisions at speed, under pressure “. But even ordinary opponents can make the right decisions at walking speed under no pressure.
 

High tempo football gives them less time to think.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[broadsword]

14 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

The valid evidence that JDT has done well is the league table. In June when he took over, with 6 first teamers having left on frees or returned to their parent clubs, most anticipated us being closer to 3rd bottom, not 3rd top.

I'm not sure why you've gone down the "Jack would never have appointed him" route, but seeing how you have you should recall that Jack appointed Hodgson; he also got Eriksen to agree to come here. Neither of them had a record in this country. It's a different world now anyway. He also appointed Kidd & Harford, who respectively had zero & little  managerial experience at all. Thinking about it, Jack's only truly successful managerial appointment was Kenny.

But yes, we'll see if JDT achieves promotion. If he does then that's a massive overachievement, even getting 6th upwards would be given the circs. Realistically he should be given more time to instill his ideas & get his own personnel in. See what J*B said above re how well respected he seems to be at Ewood.

I can't even remember myself now to be honest 🤣 but Twitter play to you for your passion and earnestly-held views.

I don't want to argue any further, only too say let's keep our fingers crossed for the rest of the season. All the best to you.

[Atko's Engine]

10 minutes ago, broadsword said:

I can't even remember myself now to be honest 🤣 but Twitter play to you for your passion and earnestly-held views.

I don't want to argue any further, only too say let's keep our fingers crossed for the rest of the season. All the best to you.

Hats off to you sir for engaging, I almost feel guilty for taking you to task now (almost)!

Let's argue no more as you say. We both want the same in the end.

[roversfan99]

30 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

The valid evidence that JDT has done well is the league table. In June when he took over, with 6 first teamers having left on frees or returned to their parent clubs, most anticipated us being closer to 3rd bottom, not 3rd top.

I'm not sure why you've gone down the "Jack would never have appointed him" route, but seeing how you have you should recall that Jack appointed Hodgson; he also got Eriksen to agree to come here. Neither of them had a record in this country. It's a different world now anyway. He also appointed Kidd & Harford, who respectively had zero & little  managerial experience at all. Thinking about it, Jack's only truly successful managerial appointment was Kenny.

But yes, we'll see if JDT achieves promotion. If he does then that's a massive overachievement, even getting 6th upwards would be given the circs. Realistically he should be given more time to instill his ideas & get his own personnel in. See what J*B said above re how well respected he seems to be at Ewood.

Ive always felt that this idea of how "bad" a situation that Tomasson inherited was over the top. You have to be really bad to be at the bottom of this league such is the poor standard and Kaminski, Pickering, Ayala, Wharton, Buckley, Travis, Dolan, Brereton and Gallagher all featured heavily for us last season and we finished 8th. He also had a reasonable budget to add to that which was used with mixed success and the return of Dack and a settled Hedges.

Not to deny of course that you cant really argue with 3rd.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

If none of them were bothering to attend games before he died he made an horrendous mistake in the arrangements he made for after his death. He should have carved out a separate entity to own and run the club rather than merging the club in to his other interests. As the saying goes, never mix business with pleasure.

It was a 'Trust' Fund and he installed those he trusted and who were best qualified to oversee it all and carry out his wishes.

Not much else he could do and even if it was a separate entity some of the same would have been the persons with significant control.  So it could still have been sold or folded if they saw fit and followed the legal process.

They ALL let him down.

[Eddie]

Anyone who finds the football dull shouldn't possibly find this week-by-week assessment to be entertaining.

I've never seen a set of supporters complain so much about a team currently sitting in third (when preseason expectations were not for us to challenge for the title). Hell, most of the negative people on here wouldn't have even given us a shot of the playoffs - there was a talk of relegation preseason.

We come across as such a bunch of entitled assholes. If I were a rival supporter reading this I would instantly put us at the top of the list of sides that I would like to see fail.

 

[roversfan99]

Why do our fans enjoy making the general fanbase out to be a torch bearing mob? 

I have not seen one person suggest that 3rd is not good enough. People can mention the entertainment value or lack of whilst acknowledging that results are the important thing.

@Eddie have you been to Ewood this season and if so, does the negativity there match what you have said on here?

[Atko's Engine]

4 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

A lot of it is psychological. If we’d have drawn a few of those bad defeats, and some of the wins too - so still on pretty much the same points we are on now, I bet the general feeling around the club would be much better.

Unlike the charge up the table last November/December, we’ve not put any kind of run together since August, so never really feeling like we are getting some momentum behind us. Every win feeling like it’s followed by a stinking defeat, especially the two shockers to local rivals bookending a mid season break.

It’s certainly true that draws don’t really do a lot for your league position, but a nice unbeaten run does a lot of the mood!

 

I think there's a lot in this, hence why some people need a reality check re JDTs football bein boring, or people feeling entertained. But ultimately 3rd place is a great place to be at this point in time.

This desire for entertainment, has it ever been thus or is it recent phenomenon spawn of the internet & instant gratification? I remember some dull patches under Hughes & Souey especially, isn't it just part of football for some games to be dull & uninspiring?

It's before my time, but many on here who I see criticising JDT are some of the same folk who look back fondly to the days of Howard Kendall which, from what I understand, was very much built on 1-0 wins, scoring then shutting up shop. Hardly sounds inspirational, but it was effective ultimately. Bearing in mind JDT has had 6 months in charge, there's surely an inconsistency there?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

25 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Anyone who finds the football dull shouldn't possibly find this week-by-week assessment to be entertaining.

I've never seen a set of supporters complain so much about a team currently sitting in third (when preseason expectations were not for us to challenge for the title). Hell, most of the negative people on here wouldn't have even given us a shot of the playoffs - there was a talk of relegation preseason.

We come across as such a bunch of entitled assholes. If I were a rival supporter reading this I would instantly put us at the top of the list of sides that I would like to see fail.

 

You could have written that this time last year just as the wheels started dropping off. And look what happened next.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[SuperBrfc]

4 hours ago, Atko's Engine said:

Very true. Are we really having a poor season or boring to watch when all we do is either win games or lose them, and we've won more than we've lost? Don't get me wrong, I'd be happier if we'd won more than we have, or drawn some of those that we've lost, but I don't think we're boring to watch overall, nor underperforming overall.

If anything we're overperforming, but I guess that must be in spite of JDT. How stupid & mentally gymnastical of me!

 

 

Atko, you seem to be doing what you are accusing others of doing, only from the other side of the fence. It seems as though you are glossing over any negatives, any concerns or worries about results, performances and JDT by simply citing "we are third" and implying that anybody who is complaining is being unreasonable or performing gymnastics.

Correct me if I'm wrong, or speaking out of turn (that's not my intention), but I have noticed you say "I didn't see the game" a few times. Is it possible, therefore, that you haven't truly experienced a few of the horror shows for yourself to appreciate how bad those games were, thus making it easier to brush those aside as being 'not that bad' based on the overall league position?

We've had a number of utterly abysmal, dire performances and results so far this season. That's not hyperbole, it's there for everybody to see. It's not just the Burnley and Preston defeats either, there have been a whole host of them. Same mistakes being repeated again and again, same abject defeats and the manager trotting out "young side" and "project" after almost all of them. That's where the concerns and complaints come from, as the signs are there of things going totally haywire at some point, unless something is done to address those issues.

To bring those concerns up isn't baffling, despite being in third, because the cracks can't be covered up forever. Heck, JDT himself is preparing the fans for a potential slide down the table by saying "we aren't expected to go up". Does that not tell you something about what third place means to him right now? It appears to mean little to him, but to his defenders it means everything.

Broughton also got his weasel like "Farke was given time" rhetoric out early doors and seems to have done a job on you, Chaddy and a few others by the sounds of it.

The first thing he said when he arrived was that for Rovers to go up we would have to overachieve, and here you are saying we are overperforming, and seemingly using that to gloss over the 'negatives'.

I noticed you say something about not putting "unnecessary pressure" on the team the other day when somebody called the Cardiff game a must win game. Bless the little lambs, we can't be putting any pressure on them, can we? That's exactly the sort of attitude that has reduced the club to what it is today. "No pressure lads", "It's alright lads, we go again next week". The holiday club mentality. Not blaming you for that, obviously, but that's the effect 12 years of Venky ownership has had.

I just can't understand the brushing aside of the worrying aspects as if those who bring them up are just being doom merchants and will never be happy. They are valid concerns to bring up. The football has been shit in the main, to be honest.

As for bringing up Jack Walker's appointments to defend JDT. Seriously? For me, he cannot be mentioned in the same breath as these tossers appointing somebody they've likely never heard of before. Let's not forget how far standards have fallen at the club under this lot. We are not a normal club and haven't been since before November 2010.

I just hope this isn't another manager who the fans will protect at all costs. We had it with Mowbray, now JDT is heading that way too. The pair of them aren't bigger than the football club and you may recall that our very best managers didn't get this type of loyal treatment. I find THAT baffling, personally.

That doesn't mean I want JDT to fail. Obviously, I want him to take us up and I'm pleased with how the table looks right now. It's just that I don't agree with the way that anybody who says anything against JDT is jumped upon and labelled with all sorts of nonsense.

@Eddie Entitled? Give over. That's PR spin that the club would be delighted to see put out there as it puts the blame on the fans and shields the real culprits. The clueless at the top that have no ambition and will for the club to succeed.

[roversfan99]

9 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

I think there's a lot in this, hence why some people need a reality check re JDTs football bein boring, or people feeling entertained. But ultimately 3rd place is a great place to be at this point in time.

This desire for entertainment, has it ever been thus or is it recent phenomenon spawn of the internet & instant gratification? I remember some dull patches under Hughes & Souey especially, isn't it just part of football for some games to be dull & uninspiring?

It's before my time, but many on here who I see criticising JDT are some of the same folk who look back fondly to the days of Howard Kendall which, from what I understand, was very much built on 1-0 wins, scoring then shutting up shop. Hardly sounds inspirational, but it was effective ultimately. Bearing in mind JDT has had 6 months in charge, there's surely an inconsistency there?

When we do win, there is seldom any strong criticism really though over the entertainment value, even if it is commented on as a general point regarding the match.

[Mattyblue]

35 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Anyone who finds the football dull shouldn't possibly find this week-by-week assessment to be entertaining.

I've never seen a set of supporters complain so much about a team currently sitting in third (when preseason expectations were not for us to challenge for the title). Hell, most of the negative people on here wouldn't have even given us a shot of the playoffs - there was a talk of relegation preseason.

We come across as such a bunch of entitled assholes. If I were a rival supporter reading this I would instantly put us at the top of the list of sides that I would like to see fail.

 

1) You mustn’t spend much time at Ewood/in the local area as a handful of posters on this obscure place in no way represents the general thoughts re JDT.

2) You mustn’t spend much time on other forms as they are *all* like this.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Mattyblue

[Mattyblue]

11 minutes ago, SuperBrfc said:

I just hope this isn't another manager who the fans will protect at all costs. We had it with Mowbray, now JDT is heading that way too. The pair of them aren't bigger than the football club and you may recall that our very best managers didn't get this type of loyal treatment. I find THAT baffling, personally.

 

This fella won’t be protected at all costs, he’s getting more grumbles at Ewood in a few months than Mr Teflon got in five years (though it’s still mild, as you would expect).

TM was a one off on that score, JDT will be treated like every other manager by the fans if the results are crap.

[Atko's Engine]

4 minutes ago, SuperBrfc said:

Atko, you seem to be doing what you are accusing others of doing, only from the other side of the fence. It seems as though you are glossing over any negatives, any concerns or worries about results, performances and JDT by simply citing "we are third" and implying that anybody who is complaining is being unreasonable or performing gymnastics.

Correct me if I'm wrong, or speaking out of turn (that's not my intention), but I have noticed you say "I didn't see the game" a few times. Is it possible, therefore, that you haven't truly experienced a few of the horror shows for yourself to appreciate how bad those games were, thus making it easier to brush those aside as being 'not that bad' based on the overall league position?

We've had a number of utterly abysmal, dire performances and results so far this season. That's not hyperbole, it's there for everybody to see. It's not just the Burnley and Preston defeats either, there have been a whole host of them. Same mistakes being repeated again and again, same abject defeats and the manager trotting out "young side" and "project" after almost all of them. That's where the concerns and complaints come from, as the signs are there of things going totally haywire at some point, unless something is done to address those issues.

To bring those concerns up isn't baffling, despite being in third, because the cracks can't be covered up forever. Heck, JDT himself is preparing the fans for a potential slide down the table by saying "we aren't expected to go up". Does that not tell you something about what third place means to him right now? It appears to mean little to him, but to his defenders it means everything.

Broughton also got his weasel like "Farke was given time" rhetoric out early doors and seems to have done a job on you, Chaddy and a few others by the sounds of it.

The first thing he said when he arrived was that for Rovers to go up we would have to overachieve, and here you are saying we are overperforming, and seemingly using that to gloss over the 'negatives'.

I noticed you say something about not putting "unnecessary pressure" on the team the other day when somebody called the Cardiff game a must win game. Bless the little lambs, we can't be putting any pressure on them, can we? That's exactly the sort of attitude that has reduced the club to what it is today. "No pressure lads", "It's alright lads, we go again next week". The holiday club mentality. Not blaming you for that, obviously, but that's the effect 12 years of Venky ownership has had.

I just can't understand the brushing aside of the worrying aspects as if those who bring them up are just being doom merchants and will never be happy. They are valid concerns to bring up. The football has been shit in the main, to be honest.

As for bringing up Jack Walker's appointments to defend JDT. Seriously? For me, he cannot be mentioned in the same breath as these tossers appointing somebody they've likely never heard of before. Let's not forget how far standards have fallen at the club under this lot. We are not a normal club and haven't been since before November 2010.

I just hope this isn't another manager who the fans will protect at all costs. We had it with Mowbray, now JDT is heading that way too. The pair of them aren't bigger than the football club and you may recall that our very best managers didn't get this type of loyal treatment. I find THAT baffling, personally.

That doesn't mean I want JDT to fail. Obviously, I want him to take us up and I'm pleased with how the table looks right now. It's just that I don't agree with the way that anybody who says anything against JDT is jumped upon and labelled with all sorts of nonsense.

@Eddie Entitled? Give over. That's PR spin that the club would be delighted to see put out there as it puts the blame on the fans and shields the real culprits. The clueless at the top that have no ambition and will for the club to succeed.

Thanks for the reasoned & well considered post, I appreciate it much more than the "weird behaviour", "bizarre" & "prioner of war / Stockholm syndrome" comments seen from others.

For the record, someone else accused me of performing mental gymnastics, so I was responding to that. It was also someone else brought Jack into the conversation & I was responding to that too. Jack Walker is a hero to anyone who has any passion for our club; I will never denigrate him, but I will also not rewrite history.

I only get to see home games live due to family & financial commitments. I live in Cheshire now so a 3pm home game for me basically takes up the whole day, but I've had a season ticket for 35 years so have a valid opinion having seen the good, the bad & the ugly over that period, & was at Wembley for the Full Members Cup win etc. in my black rimmed NHS specs as seen on ITV news!

I didn't see the Preston home game due to the weather (last season when it snowed it took me 3 hours to get to Ewood, only for the match to be postponed when 500 yards away!), nor the Wigan away game, but I am acutely aware from here, from facebook, from twitter, from JDT, from the LT and Lancs live how poor we were, there was no doubting it! I saw the Burnley debacle on tv & called it out for what it was on here afterwards. I get those results and performances will stick in the craw most for those folk who spent good money & time to attend.

If you look at my history of posts on here, hopefully you'll recognise that they're less of the knee jerk type & more objective than most. Perhaps on this occasion I've fallen into blue-and-white tinted specs territory, but if so that's only because I feel the extent of criticism of JDT is so unwarranted. He walked into a shitstorm really in the summer but despite that urrently has us 3rd, has brought half a dozen academy players into the fold (albeit through necessity, but mostly successfully), has made some decent, good value signings (and some admittedly less so, like all managers) and has been honest enough after poor performances to admit they were below par.

He came in saying "I was looking for a project, but the project found me".  He was open about that from the start. There were some who questioned the wisdom of his appointment, but the majority view was that it's a bold & ambitious appointment, a welcome change from the usual dinosaur merry go round, and that he would need time to rebuild a broken & morale-strapped squad to even make us competitive. Now, due mainly to poor performances against 3 local rivals, he is vilified for every wrong move & deemed lucky when things go our way.

Listen to any manager, they all say that young players are prone to inconsistency. If you have half a dozen players aged 23 or less in your team / squad, it's more likely than not that they will put in inconsistent performances from one week to the next week, just like we have done (contrast poor defeats to Burnley, Wigan, Sheff Utd and Preston with deserved wins v QPR, Watford, Blackpool & Swansea). He had 6 weeks to get to know his squad, backroom team, a new internal structure in its infancy, and Broughton himself, to understand the division, and to identify upgrades, before games then came every 3-4 days for 15 weeks in an unprecedented season. All with a thin squad inherited from Mowbray due to contract mismanagement that's been padded out with loans, academy players & a few others known to be injury prone.

I just don't get why so many people are so critical of JDT when you take a step back and look at the bigger picture. I respect people's views & don't pretend to be any kind of Oracle. Nor do I expect to change the minds of others, but I do feel it's right to stick up for fair comment.

To round off, Venkys ownership has been nothing short of shambolic. As a consequence, we don't have the muscle, the pull or the stature we did 15 or 20 years ago. We can't just push out our chests and say "We are Blackburn Rovers". Venkys have dismantled what we were. So our short term aims and goals have to be set accordingly, to build from the bottom up, to build up the academy, to become self-sufficient & not rely on handouts. That's the context of JDT's arrival here and it's his job, over time, to usher in a new era for the club and oversee a smooth transition to rising again as a different beast to what we were under Jack. It has to be like that because Venkys won't sell.

That's the reality of where we are now, like it or not.

[47er]

Our goal diff will probably edge us out of the six, if points don't. We've lost badly too often.

[Atko's Engine]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

When we do win, there is seldom any strong criticism really though over the entertainment value, even if it is commented on as a general point regarding the match.

That's another thing really, the traffic on here is far greater after a defeat or poor performance than after a win. That grates me too, though I have it on good authority from other posters who scrape the barrels of other club's forums that it's the same for all clubs, so I'll let that one slide... 😉

[roversfan99]

16 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

That's another thing really, the traffic on here is far greater after a defeat or poor performance than after a win. That grates me too, though I have it on good authority from other posters who scrape the barrels of other club's forums that it's the same for all clubs, so I'll let that one slide... 😉

I guess its understandable. More likely to celebrate if we win or if we need a vent, we could come here!

[Upside Down]

For the last fucking time, nobody is complaining about our league position. 

The reason for mine and many others discontent is the absolutely unacceptable performances we have put in against many teams this year, not least in THREE local derbies, and the outright dismissal of any promotion aspirations despite us being 3rd in the league. This last point is what has really grated me.

If we'd have played with some bollocks and tried something other than the suicidal passing the ball around our own box we may have been able to scrape a few more points from these games and be looking at the top two instead of the rest of the pack that are rapidly catching us up.

If you are brushing off the games against Wigan, Burnley and Preston as 'just a couple of bad performances' then I question how much of a fan you really are. I demand nothing less than total commitment from everything and everybody associated with the club when it comes to these fixtures. 

[AllRoverAsia]

A win produces a good, great, excellent win comment and praise for any good standout goals, moves or players.

A loss produces micro analysis of every facet of what happened, why and what can be done to fix it.

That's actually normal for human activity.

What grates is the type of poster who almost every fecking post criticizes those who dare to criticize.

Well it may just be I don't give a flying feck what they say.