Jon Dahl Tomasson - Sweden coach

[Upside Down]

1 hour ago, SuperBrfc said:

Atko, you seem to be doing what you are accusing others of doing, only from the other side of the fence. It seems as though you are glossing over any negatives, any concerns or worries about results, performances and JDT by simply citing "we are third" and implying that anybody who is complaining is being unreasonable or performing gymnastics.

Correct me if I'm wrong, or speaking out of turn (that's not my intention), but I have noticed you say "I didn't see the game" a few times. Is it possible, therefore, that you haven't truly experienced a few of the horror shows for yourself to appreciate how bad those games were, thus making it easier to brush those aside as being 'not that bad' based on the overall league position?

We've had a number of utterly abysmal, dire performances and results so far this season. That's not hyperbole, it's there for everybody to see. It's not just the Burnley and Preston defeats either, there have been a whole host of them. Same mistakes being repeated again and again, same abject defeats and the manager trotting out "young side" and "project" after almost all of them. That's where the concerns and complaints come from, as the signs are there of things going totally haywire at some point, unless something is done to address those issues.

To bring those concerns up isn't baffling, despite being in third, because the cracks can't be covered up forever. Heck, JDT himself is preparing the fans for a potential slide down the table by saying "we aren't expected to go up". Does that not tell you something about what third place means to him right now? It appears to mean little to him, but to his defenders it means everything.

Broughton also got his weasel like "Farke was given time" rhetoric out early doors and seems to have done a job on you, Chaddy and a few others by the sounds of it.

The first thing he said when he arrived was that for Rovers to go up we would have to overachieve, and here you are saying we are overperforming, and seemingly using that to gloss over the 'negatives'.

I noticed you say something about not putting "unnecessary pressure" on the team the other day when somebody called the Cardiff game a must win game. Bless the little lambs, we can't be putting any pressure on them, can we? That's exactly the sort of attitude that has reduced the club to what it is today. "No pressure lads", "It's alright lads, we go again next week". The holiday club mentality. Not blaming you for that, obviously, but that's the effect 12 years of Venky ownership has had.

I just can't understand the brushing aside of the worrying aspects as if those who bring them up are just being doom merchants and will never be happy. They are valid concerns to bring up. The football has been shit in the main, to be honest.

As for bringing up Jack Walker's appointments to defend JDT. Seriously? For me, he cannot be mentioned in the same breath as these tossers appointing somebody they've likely never heard of before. Let's not forget how far standards have fallen at the club under this lot. We are not a normal club and haven't been since before November 2010.

I just hope this isn't another manager who the fans will protect at all costs. We had it with Mowbray, now JDT is heading that way too. The pair of them aren't bigger than the football club and you may recall that our very best managers didn't get this type of loyal treatment. I find THAT baffling, personally.

That doesn't mean I want JDT to fail. Obviously, I want him to take us up and I'm pleased with how the table looks right now. It's just that I don't agree with the way that anybody who says anything against JDT is jumped upon and labelled with all sorts of nonsense.

@Eddie Entitled? Give over. That's PR spin that the club would be delighted to see put out there as it puts the blame on the fans and shields the real culprits. The clueless at the top that have no ambition and will for the club to succeed.

Fantastic post.

[Atko's Engine]

1 hour ago, Upside Down said:

For the last fucking time, nobody is complaining about our league position. 

The reason for mine and many others discontent is the absolutely unacceptable performances we have put in against many teams this year, not least in THREE local derbies, and the outright dismissal of any promotion aspirations despite us being 3rd in the league. This last point is what has really grated me.

If we'd have played with some bollocks and tried something other than the suicidal passing the ball around our own box we may have been able to scrape a few more points from these games and be looking at the top two instead of the rest of the pack that are rapidly catching us up.

If you are brushing off the games against Wigan, Burnley and Preston as 'just a couple of bad performances' then I question how much of a fan you really are. I demand nothing less than total commitment from everything and everybody associated with the club when it comes to these fixtures. 

Here we go again, don't read and reply with civility, instead just play the man not the ball and resort to swearing back at me and questioning my support of the club despite what I said in my previous post about my background as a season ticket holder for over 35 years.

Bang out of order on both counts.

You've no idea who I am and I dont dare to presume who you are. I see you only joined this forum in Nov 2021, does that give me the right to question your entitlement to comment or your commitment?? 

All managers publicly downplay their prospects of success. "We're just taking it one game at a time", "we're looking no further ahead than to the next match" etc. are common phrases from managers. Managers set internal targets which stay internal, whilst publicly they say very different things. Much like when managers give nothing away about transfer targets to fans & the media. Is that so hard to understand?

All I'm seeking to do is bring some objectivity to the debate, and put my alternative point of view to that of the critics on here that is wider in scope than just a handful of poor performances & supported by the stats, be that league position, squad strength & demographics, financial limitations, new backroom structure etc. 

1 hour ago, AllRoverAsia said:

A win produces a good, great, excellent win comment and praise for any good standout goals, moves or players.

A loss produces micro analysis of every facet of what happened, why and what can be done to fix it.

That's actually normal for human activity.

What grates is the type of poster who almost every fecking post criticizes those who dare to criticize.

Well it may just be I don't give a flying feck what they say.

 

If criticism is due then fair enough, as it was following those performances mentioned, but let it be levelled fairly alongside of praise when that's also due and not just ignore the achievements that have come in between those failures and which, combined, see us in a far better position now than any of us anticipated in the summer.

On a final note, it's a shame that you don't give a feck what other people think if it's different to you. It's kind of what message boards are for, to debate and discuss & potentially enlighten. Without constructive criticism of opposing points of view, forums just become echo chambers. I've never once questioned another fan's right to think or say what they do about the club, the team or the management; nor have I resorted to name calling or the bare dismissal of opposing views.

I've just said that I don't understand the bleak view that some have of this season overall & JDT in particular.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Atko's Engine

[Upside Down]

57 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

Here we go again, don't read and reply with civility, instead just play the man not the ball and resort to swearing back at me and questioning my support of the club despite what I said in my previous post about my background as a season ticket holder for over 35 years.

Bang out of order on both counts.

You've no idea who I am and I dont dare to presume who you are. I see you only joined this forum in Nov 2021, does that give me the right to question your entitlement to comment or your commitment?? 

All managers publicly downplay their prospects of success. "We're just taking it one game at a time", "we're looking no further ahead than to the next match" etc. are common phrases from managers. Managers set internal targets which stay internal, whilst publicly they say very different things. Much like when managers give nothing away about transfer targets to fans & the media. Is that so hard to understand?

All I'm seeking to do is bring some objectivity to the debate, and put my alternative point of view to that of the critics on here that is wider in scope than just a handful of poor performances & supported by the stats, be that league position, squad strength & demographics, financial limitations, new backroom structure etc. 

If criticism is due then fair enough, as it was following those performances mentioned, but let it be levelled fairly alongside of praise when that's also due and not just ignore the achievements that have come in between those failures and which, combined, see us in a far better position now than any of us anticipated in the summer.

On a final note, it's a shame that you don't give a feck what other people think if it's different to you. It's kind of what message boards are for, to debate and discuss & potentially enlighten. Without constructive criticism of opposing points of view, forums just become echo chambers. I've never once questioned another fan's right to think or say what they do about the club, the team or the management; nor have I resorted to name calling or the bare dismissal of opposing views.

I've just said that I don't understand the bleak view that some have of this season overall & JDT in particular.

Believe it or not, not every post on this forum is addressed to you personally. 

And you are accusing others of doing exactly what you are doing yourself. Projection.

[Mercer]

Football has been an expensive pastime for a considerable while now.

There are now so many competing  different areas of life where folk can spend their hard earned money.  Clubs like Rovers should be mindful of this.

My needs are simple and I would think no different than most supporters.

As a minimum, I expect every player in blue and white to bust a gut every second, every minute of every game.  I want to see and breathe their passion.  This season we have seen too many capitulations in games that REALLY MATTER to the fans.  In many games our performances have been an absolute embarrassment.

I want to be entertained.  I want excitement, flair and goal mouth action.  In the main we are insipid, boring and painful to watch.  Such dross will not put bums on seats.

I want us to be successful and show real AMBITION, competing at the top of the league and maximising Cup opportunities.  Qualifying for the play offs ISN'T SUCCESS unless you feckin win them.  A place in the quarters of the Carabao Cup was at stake and in a home game we field a reserve team - feckin pathetic.

Like many, I think we are no better than a mid table outfit and only a number of very fortuitous wins have put us in this false position.

Very, very unconvinced by JDT and Broughton.

Some on here talk about not putting players under pressure.

Do me a feckin favour.  These lads earn many £thousands per week.  Real  pressure is not having a job, not being able to put food on the table, not being able to put on the heating, not being able to buy new clothes/shoes for your children.

IMO, footballers are a pampered and privilged lot living in an unreal world.  If they can't stand the so called pressure then get off the feckin grass and get a REAL JOB on civvy street.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Mercer

[Upside Down]

4 hours ago, Mercer said:

Football has been an expensive pastime for a considerable while now.

There are now so many competing  different areas of life where folk can spend their hard earned money.  Clubs like Rovers should be mindful of this.

My needs are simple and I would think no different than most supporters.

As a minimum, I expect every player in blue and white to bust a gut every second, every minute of every game.  I want to see and breathe their passion.  This season we have seen too many capitulations in games that REALLY MATTER to the fans.  In many games our performances have been an absolute embarrassment.

I want to be entertained.  I want excitement, flair and goal mouth action.  In the main we are insipid, boring and painful to watch.  Such dross will not put bums on seats.

I want us to be successful and show real AMBITION, competing at the top of the league and maximising Cup opportunities.  Qualifying for the play offs ISN'T SUCCESS unless you feckin win them.  A place in the quarters of the Carabao Cup was at stake and in a home game we field a reserve team - feckin pathetic.

Like many, I think we are no better than a mid table outfit and only a number of very fortuitous wins have put us in this false position.

Very, very unconvinced by JDT and Broughton.

Some on here talk about not putting players under pressure.

Do me a feckin favour.  These lads earn many £thousands per week.  Real  pressure is not having a job, not being able to put food on the table, not being able to put on the heating, not being able to buy new clothes/shoes for your children.

IMO, footballers are a pampered and privilged lot living in an unreal world.  If they can't stand the so called pressure then get off the feckin grass and get a REAL JOB on civvy street.

Well said. The people at this club need a reality check. Give them a year on minimum wage living hand to mouth.

[Mashed Potatoes]

11 hours ago, tomphil said:

It was a 'Trust' Fund and he installed those he trusted and who were best qualified to oversee it all and carry out his wishes.

Not much else he could do and even if it was a separate entity some of the same would have been the persons with significant control.  So it could still have been sold or folded if they saw fit and followed the legal process.

They ALL let him down.

I think that the problem was that when the liquidity squeeze arising from the global financial crisis hit there were other businesses in the trust like the airline which needed funds. It's difficult to prioritise funding transfers and wages for players when there were people elsewhere at risk of losing their jobs.

[Mattyblue]

Very testy thread this for a side 3rd in the table 😁. Imagine if we were down the bottom…

[Roverthechimp]

9 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Very testy thread this for a side 3rd in the table 😁. Imagine if we were down the bottom…

As long as we weren’t playing tippy tappy football and trying hard then apparently quite a few would be happier…

yes i am taking the piss but ffs - i dare anyone to say we are underachieving in terms of results this season. People bitching about not being entertained whilst bitching about it being all about results when our head coach talks bollocks replying to a question from the lokal rag.

 

[Eddie]

13 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Why do our fans enjoy making the general fanbase out to be a torch bearing mob? 

I have not seen one person suggest that 3rd is not good enough. People can mention the entertainment value or lack of whilst acknowledging that results are the important thing.

@Eddie have you been to Ewood this season and if so, does the negativity there match what you have said on here?

Been to Ewood and been to away matches and no, it is more negative on here than it is in person - but that has always been the case. 

[Eddie]

12 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

1) You mustn’t spend much time at Ewood/in the local area as a handful of posters on this obscure place in no way represents the general thoughts re JDT.

2) You mustn’t spend much time on other forms as they are *all* like this.

Neither are really relevant to my point.

[Eddie]

12 hours ago, SuperBrfc said:

@Eddie Entitled? Give over. That's PR spin that the club would be delighted to see put out there as it puts the blame on the fans and shields the real culprits. The clueless at the top that have no ambition and will for the club to succeed.

We're in the playoff spots...

[Mattyblue]

Of course they are. You can’t be expecting to get a real picture of where the support is off a dozen reactionary posters on a message board… or from any messsge board.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Mattyblue

[Eddie]

12 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

You could have written that this time last year just as the wheels started dropping off. And look what happened next.

Very different scenario.

I was firmly in the Mowbray out camp by this time last year as he had been in charge for several years and had time to prove himself, put his squad together, and get the team to play how he wanted to.

He also consistently came out in public to temper expectations and set the bar as low as possible for his own performance reviews. Not the same so far under JDT and we are only 6 months into his time here. If we fall apart this season and fall apart next season then I will have less confidence going into a third if we are hearing the same old noises.

[Eddie]

2 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Of course they are. You can’t be expecting to get a real picture of where the support is off a dozen reactionary posters on a message board… or from any messsge board.

No, because it was a critique of THIS messageboard and, in particular, this thread. So what goes on outside of this thread and this messageboard is sort of irrelevant. 

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I think that the problem was that when the liquidity squeeze arising from the global financial crisis hit there were other businesses in the trust like the airline which needed funds. It's difficult to prioritise funding transfers and wages for players when there were people elsewhere at risk of losing their jobs.

I might be wrong but i'm sure the club was prepped for sale before that and it was always on the cards anyway. From the bits that have come to light since it appeared there was issues between trust bigwigs and family members as to where money was being invested.

Going back to your original point about setting aside a separate pot i think that would have been somewhat limited to a few million a season. So we would have struggled to keep pace anyway but perhaps it would have safeguarded against the horror show of a lot of the last decade at least.

Not sure where we'd be now if that was the case but i for one could have stomached a more organic regression than the one thrown upon us by this ownership and it's inept money grabbing friends.

It was difficult for Bolton but these days there seems to be a totally different mindset and understanding amongst their fanbase. 

[Upside Down]

8 minutes ago, tomphil said:

I might be wrong but i'm sure the club was prepped for sale before that and it was always on the cards anyway. From the bits that have come to light since it appeared there was issues between trust bigwigs and family members as to where money was being invested.

Going back to your original point about setting aside a separate pot i think that would have been somewhat limited to a few million a season. So we would have struggled to keep pace anyway but perhaps it would have safeguarded against the horror show of a lot of the last decade at least.

Not sure where we'd be now if that was the case but i for one could have stomached a more organic regression than the one thrown upon us by this ownership and it's inept money grabbing friends.

It was difficult for Bolton but these days there seems to be a totally different mindset and understanding amongst their fanbase. 

A natural decline would have been easy to stomach. Basically to be successful now you need to be bankrolled by billionaire oligarchs or war criminal nation states. 

What has happened to this club is someone came and ripped the place apart from the inside out. 

In twelve years there has not been one single thing done to rectify this.

[Mattyblue]

20 minutes ago, Eddie said:

No, because it was a critique of THIS messageboard and, in particular, this thread. So what goes on outside of this thread and this messageboard is sort of irrelevant. 

I see, I thought you actually thought this place was representative… perish the thought!

But not sure any other set of fans would be desperate to beat us just because roverboy95 or whoever on an obscure message board was slagging off some manager they are vaguely aware of…

[Upside Down]

1 hour ago, Roverthechimp said:

As long as we weren’t playing tippy tappy football and trying hard then apparently quite a few would be happier…

yes i am taking the piss but ffs - i dare anyone to say we are underachieving in terms of results this season. People bitching about not being entertained whilst bitching about it being all about results when our head coach talks bollocks replying to a question from the lokal rag.

 

What has upset me in particular is being embarrassed in local derbies. It was all so avoidable as well. The aimless passing around in our own area is absolute madness and the persistence in trying this really makes me wonder whether the manager is up to the task as it is blindingly obvious that it is not working.

I'm not really bothered about being entertained, I'm not going to complain about whether or not the football is pretty. I just want  to see something that works and if what we're trying clearly doesn't work then we do something different. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

What has upset me in particular is being embarrassed in local derbies. It was all so avoidable as well. The aimless passing around in our own area is absolute madness and the persistence in trying this really makes me wonder whether the manager is up to the task as it is blindingly obvious that it is not working.

Tomasson is not a motivator. He can't be. Our players often look like they just want to get the defeat over with and go home instead of fighting tooth and nail. Burnley, Preston, Wigan... The way we played in those games was very similar to how we played in other heavy defeats (Reading, for example) whereby we just didn't turn up and didn't give two figs what happened.

On the morning of the Burnley game, I said that I was expecting a hard-fought defeat. Instead, we just rolled over because a) they were up for it, and b) we weren't. It was never the defeat that I was going to feel embarrassed about, but the manner of it proved to be. You're right that our messing around at the back cost us, at least on paper, but our lack of effort in those games was hurtful to me as a supporter. That day went on forever, and thoughts of how "Venky-like" it was came rushing back. Distant. Aloof. Sterile. Empty. And ultimately being laughed at by our noisy neighbours.

Urgh... Let's talk about something else!

[Atko's Engine]

10 hours ago, Upside Down said:

Believe it or not, not every post on this forum is addressed to you personally. 

And you are accusing others of doing exactly what you are doing yourself. Projection.

Forgive me if your post wasn't directed at me but at someone else (Eddie?). It did refer to the issues I've been raising and did follow on chronologically from what I'd just posted, and I appreciated I've been a bit outspoken on this thread the last few pages.

Perhaps quote the post(s) or poster(s) that you're responding to in future like you did above, then it can avoid further misunderstandings. 👍

[Sweaty Gussets]

I've pretty much got over the defeats to Burnley and PNE. It bothered me for a few days but eventually you have to move on. Unless you don't want to move on of course.

[broadsword]

Honestly lads, take it from me, the aggro just isn't worth it.

Yesterday I had terrible neck ache, my jaw was killing me and my sinuses too. Look what happened, I got myself into a silly argument by venting. I should've just accepted that other people saw it differently, said thank you very much and got on with my day.

Acceptance is the key word. Accepting is not the same as liking or surrendering to. I accept that people have different views, I accept that Burnley rammed us, I've even come close to accepting (and it certainly doesn't mean I think they're ok) that venkys own us right now. Without accepting the things that you can't do anything about, your mental health suffers.

We've all just come through this pandemic, some of us have had a very hard time, there's a cost of living crisis going on. We should all be looking out for each other if anything.

I wish you all (and I do mean all, whether we see eye to eye or not) a great day, and a happy new year. Look after yourselves, and try to look out for people around you who may be suffering but don't want to put their hands up. If you're going through hell, I feel for you more than you know and I wish you strength in digging things out tough. Take it easy guys

 

 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2023 by broadsword

[tomphil]

3 hours ago, Upside Down said:

A natural decline would have been easy to stomach. Basically to be successful now you need to be bankrolled by billionaire oligarchs or war criminal nation states. 

What has happened to this club is someone came and ripped the place apart from the inside out. 

In twelve years there has not been one single thing done to rectify this.

Last season and this season has provided the best chances yet to really ramp up the rectification process. Lets hope the true aim is to push on and not just float along.

Next 6-8 months will show if there is genuine intent or not.

[Atko's Engine]

2 hours ago, broadsword said:

Honestly lads, take it from me, the aggro just isn't worth it.

Yesterday I had terrible neck ache, my jaw was killing me and my sinuses too. Look what happened, I got myself into a silly argument by venting. I should've just accepted that other people saw it differently, said thank you very much and got on with my day.

Acceptance is the key word. Accepting is not the same as liking or surrendering to. I accept that people have different views, I accept that Burnley rammed us, I've even come close to accepting (and it certainly doesn't mean I think they're ok) that venkys own us right now. Without accepting the things that you can't do anything about, your mental health suffers.

We've all just come through this pandemic, some of us have had a very hard time, there's a cost of living crisis going on. We should all be looking out for each other if anything.

I wish you all (and I do mean all, whether we see eye to eye or not) a great day, and a happy new year. Look after yourselves, and try to look out for people around you who may be suffering but don't want to put their hands up. If you're going through hell, I feel for you more than you know and I wish you strength in digging things out tough. Take it easy guys

 

 

 

 

Great post. It would be better if we could all do this down the dog & duck over a pint, a game of darts and a laugh, but alas that's not possible in most cases so we're stuck with forums that, whilst useful, aren't the best way for debating the things that we're all passionate about, which can often get the better of us all.

I hope engaging with me yesterday didn't make things any worse for you and that you feel right as rain soon. 👍 I guess a decent transfer window will help, here's hoping!! 🤞

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

5 hours ago, Eddie said:

Very different scenario.

I was firmly in the Mowbray out camp by this time last year as he had been in charge for several years and had time to prove himself, put his squad together, and get the team to play how he wanted to.

He also consistently came out in public to temper expectations and set the bar as low as possible for his own performance reviews. Not the same so far under JDT and we are only 6 months into his time here. If we fall apart this season and fall apart next season then I will have less confidence going into a third if we are hearing the same old noises.

Wether we like it or not there is a culture of failure at Ewood Park. It came in through the door with the Chicken Chokers. We win a few and lose a few and that’s about it. Until that changes any talk of promotion is just pie in the sky. I really wish it wasn’t so but unfortunately that’s the way it is. It doesn’t really matter who is in charge at managerial level, we could have Pep himself,  we’d still be treading water.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Tyrone Shoelaces