Jon Dahl Tomasson - Sweden coach

[47er]

47 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

An average manager who did a decent job here.

An average manager who did an average job?

[booth]

4 hours ago, wilsdenrover said:

I doubt we’d have seen Philips, A Wharton or Garrett either 

We shouldn't be forced to use teenagers in the first team, they should be brought in at the correct time for the good of their development and the team.

[wilsdenrover]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

More that the aim should have been to improve on last season, otherwise we may aswell have given Mowbray a new deal. A safe pair of hands who wouldnt push us too far on but would always have us well away from danger.

Whether he would have had us in the same position now is irrelevant. He had us on I think the same points as we have now after the same number of games after a summer in which he wasnt allowed to spend any of the Armstrong money but I doubt he would even still.

We spent 4 or 5 million in the summer and got more loans to replace those who left to build on the core of the squad that finished 8th.

We have moved well away from my point anyway that the states in which both managers inherited the playing staff in are poles apart. Id rather have Tomasson now and am glad that Mowbray left but he is not the waste of space that people like to paint him as after things went sour.

Mowbray brought through young players in his time here. Again, a criticism of him from his time that is unfair with people seemingly desperate to criticise him in any way possible. An average manager who did a decent job here.

Did he bring through teenagers?- I’m happy to be corrected just none are coming to mind 

[wilsdenrover]

31 minutes ago, booth said:

We shouldn't be forced to use teenagers in the first team, they should be brought in at the correct time for the good of their development and the team.

Absolutely - though I’m not convinced we have been forced to use them.

Again, I’m happy to be corrected 

 

[booth]

5 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

Absolutely - though I’m not convinced we have been forced to use them.

Again, I’m happy to be corrected 

 

We had Leonard on the bench on Tuesday because we have no other centre forwards but Vale and Gallagher. 17 year old Philips came off the bench to bolster the defence in the closing moments. Earlier in the season he had to step up to the first team.

Wharton had to because our other midfielders had a collective mental breakdown.

I don't think there's a game gone by without a teenager or two on the bench.

[tomphil]

An average manager who did a good job virtually managing the whole football side of the club. Before he became far too comfortable surrounded by pals and reverted to type.

[wilsdenrover]

4 minutes ago, booth said:

We had Leonard on the bench on Tuesday because we have no other centre forwards but Vale and Gallagher. 17 year old Philips came off the bench to bolster the defence in the closing moments. Earlier in the season he had to step up to the first team.

Wharton had to because our other midfielders had a collective mental breakdown.

I don't think there's a game gone by without a teenager or two on the bench.

Fair enough, my instinct is that Mowbray may have played more experienced players out of position ahead of picking such young players.

It could be argued that sometimes that is the better option - you could definitely argue that my instinct is incorrect!

[M_B]

23 hours ago, islander200 said:

It wasn't a top 8 squad he inherited though.The main reasons we finished as high as eighth had departed the club with the exception of Brererton who had stopped scoring at a ridiculous rate prior to JDT joining up.

I'm in agreement that when Mowbray joined the club he inherited a lot worse squad than JDT did but Mowbray didn't leave a squad on paper that should be challenging for challenging for promotion 5 of our main players from that excellent spell that got us to 2nd in the league had departed the club 

If he didn't leave a squad capable of challenging for promotion, how are we 4th with 12 games to play, having been in the top 6 virtually all season? 

Tomasson has done a cracking job, but apart from Hyam, his signings haven't really broken any pots, it's been down to the bulk of existing players. 

The table doesn't lie after so long,we might not have seen it coming, but the players were obviously there, they've proven it. 

I don't know why people can't accept it, it's obviously true, the table proves it🤷‍♂️

[R0verb0y]

13 minutes ago, M_B said:

If he didn't leave a squad capable of challenging for promotion, how are we 4th with 12 games to play, having been in the top 6 virtually all season? 

Tomasson has done a cracking job, but apart from Hyam, his signings haven't really broken any pots, it's been down to the bulk of existing players. 

The table doesn't lie after so long,we might not have seen it coming, but the players were obviously there, they've proven it. 

I don't know why people can't accept it, it's obviously true, the table proves it🤷‍♂️

Perhaps the answer to your question, @M_B , lies in the quality of the coaching that the current squad receives?

[wilsdenrover]

8 minutes ago, M_B said:

If he didn't leave a squad capable of challenging for promotion, how are we 4th with 12 games to play, having been in the top 6 virtually all season? 

Tomasson has done a cracking job, but apart from Hyam, his signings haven't really broken any pots, it's been down to the bulk of existing players. 

The table doesn't lie after so long,we might not have seen it coming, but the players were obviously there, they've proven it. 

I don't know why people can't accept it, it's obviously true, the table proves it🤷‍♂️

Would you not say Brittain has been a good signing?

Maybe you’ve omitted him because of his injuries 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 minutes ago, wilsdenrover said:

Would you not say Brittain has been a good signing?

Maybe you’ve omitted him because of his injuries 

He didn’t look too good the other night. Barnes had him on a string.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[M_B]

Just now, R0verb0y said:

Perhaps the answer to your question, @M_B , lies in the quality of the coaching that the current squad receives?

Absolutely,Tomasson is coming into his own, I'm glad he's here,this young squad looks perfect for what he says he's hoping to achieve. 

The fact remains though that he's doing it largely with players he inherited, and that they've been top 6 virtually all season. 

I don't know what is so hard to understand. 

[islander200]

18 minutes ago, M_B said:

If he didn't leave a squad capable of challenging for promotion, how are we 4th with 12 games to play, having been in the top 6 virtually all season? 

Tomasson has done a cracking job, but apart from Hyam, his signings haven't really broken any pots, it's been down to the bulk of existing players. 

The table doesn't lie after so long,we might not have seen it coming, but the players were obviously there, they've proven it. 

I don't know why people can't accept it, it's obviously true, the table proves it🤷‍♂️

 

18 minutes ago, M_B said:

If he didn't leave a squad capable of challenging for promotion, how are we 4th with 12 games to play, having been in the top 6 virtually all season? 

Tomasson has done a cracking job, but apart from Hyam, his signings haven't really broken any pots, it's been down to the bulk of existing players. 

The table doesn't lie after so long,we might not have seen it coming, but the players were obviously there, they've proven it. 

I don't know why people can't accept it, it's obviously true, the table proves it🤷‍♂️

JDT is overachieving with the squad.Nobody on here would have had us down to be in fourth place and be in an fa cup quarter final after already making the last 16 in the league cup.

Of course still time for it to fall apart but currently he is getting more out of the squad than Mowbray did or would have .

I do think Mowbray did ok in general just stayed here way too long and last season as soon as we lost Rothwells drive from midfield after by far his best form here and Brererton got injured/stopped scoring as regularly.

We lost the club captain, Rothwell, Nyambe and van Hecke and Khadra went back.All important members of the first 11 when we where doing well as soon as the squad players were called upon we fell away in the league 

[roversfan99]

17 minutes ago, islander200 said:

 

JDT is overachieving with the squad.Nobody on here would have had us down to be in fourth place and be in an fa cup quarter final after already making the last 16 in the league cup.

Of course still time for it to fall apart but currently he is getting more out of the squad than Mowbray did or would have .

I do think Mowbray did ok in general just stayed here way too long and last season as soon as we lost Rothwells drive from midfield after by far his best form here and Brererton got injured/stopped scoring as regularly.

We lost the club captain, Rothwell, Nyambe and van Hecke and Khadra went back.All important members of the first 11 when we where doing well as soon as the squad players were called upon we fell away in the league 

Would you agree with my initial point that he inherited a far stronger squad compared to Mowbray though?

[tomphil]

16 minutes ago, islander200 said:

 

JDT is overachieving with the squad.Nobody on here would have had us down to be in fourth place and be in an fa cup quarter final after already making the last 16 in the league cup.

Of course still time for it to fall apart but currently he is getting more out of the squad than Mowbray did or would have .

I do think Mowbray did ok in general just stayed here way too long and last season as soon as we lost Rothwells drive from midfield after by far his best form here and Brererton got injured/stopped scoring as regularly.

We lost the club captain, Rothwell, Nyambe and van Hecke and Khadra went back.All important members of the first 11 when we where doing well as soon as the squad players were called upon we fell away in the league 

Agree with most of that but as i've mentioned many times never underestimate what a waste he made of that transfer window last Jan.

All the focus is on why how where we didn't get the striker we so obviously needed but the guy was allowed to bring in 4 players. That's unusual under Venkys in Jan and he easily spent a couple of million in terms of fees wages etc yet they all ended up contributing nothing between the lot of them.

He chose to spread the signings and money around on 3 back up players and one guy who was good but he'd no intention of using him in his proper position.  All that was classic Mowbray and it was a monumental horlicks given what we needed, that played a big part in the tail off as well.

We should have had some sort of boost from 4 fresh faces in Jan but there was feck all.

[islander200]

25 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Would you agree with my initial point that he inherited a far stronger squad compared to Mowbray though?

Yes I said that in my initial response to you though I have noticed you on a few occasions suggesting that Tomosson should be improving on last seasons top 8 finish when the core of the starting 11 had departed which I don't agree with we looked very good last season for 3 months but a lot of things fell into place for that to happen such as Brerertons form and Rothwell showing his best form,the rest of the season we were mediocre at best 

Yes Mowbray left the squad in a better place than what he found it but on paper it wasn't a top 8 squad JDT was walking into.

[roversfan99]

Just now, islander200 said:

Yes I said that in my initial response to you though I have noticed you on a few occasions suggesting that Tomosson should be improving on last seasons top 8 finish when the core of the starting 11 had departed which I don't agree with we looked very good last season for 3 months but a lot of things fell into place for that to happen such as Brerertons form and Rothwell showing his best form,the rest of the season we were mediocre at best 

Yes Mowbray left the squad in a better place than what he found it but on paper it wasn't a top 8 squad JDT was walking into.

My point has been that the aim and intention should be for Tomasson to finish higher, otherwise we may aswell have stuck with a safe pair of hands. Not that he necessarily should finish in a particular place.

Last season wasnt lucky, you finish where you deserve after a full season. Mowbray could argue that we was unlucky to see Brereton get injured when Dack was already injured. That form shown was as part of a tactic few would have recommended but that worked very well.

 

[islander200]

15 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

My point has been that the aim and intention should be for Tomasson to finish higher, otherwise we may aswell have stuck with a safe pair of hands. Not that he necessarily should finish in a particular place.

Last season wasnt lucky, you finish where you deserve after a full season. Mowbray could argue that we was unlucky to see Brereton get injured when Dack was already injured. That form shown was as part of a tactic few would have recommended but that worked very well.

 

Mowbray had 5 years here the majority of that squad with the exception of van Hecke and Khadra were here in previous seasons .

We couldn't even make the playoffs when we had a striker who scored 28 league goals.

We had an excellent few months last season as soon as 1 or 2 got injured/lost form we fell off a cliff.

His best finish is eighth place and 5 players who contributed massively to that had departed the club so I'm not having JDT walked into a squad that was top 6/8 material.If you do fair enough but we will leave at that before we bore the board to death 

[roversfan99]

13 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Mowbray had 5 years here the majority of that squad with the exception of van Hecke and Khadra were here in previous seasons .

We couldn't even make the playoffs when we had a striker who scored 28 league goals.

We had an excellent few months last season as soon as 1 or 2 got injured/lost form we fell off a cliff.

His best finish is eighth place and 5 players who contributed massively to that had departed the club so I'm not having JDT walked into a squad that was top 6/8 material.If you do fair enough but we will leave at that before we bore the board to death 

I have never said that the squad Tomasson inherited was "top 6/8 material." 8th place last season was devastating in the way it happened but just as a league result having had our best player sold and no reinvestment, it was an impressive finish at the same time.

[Upside Down]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

I have never said that the squad Tomasson inherited was "top 6/8 material." 8th place last season was devastating in the way it happened but just as a league result having had our best player sold and no reinvestment, it was an impressive finish at the same time.

No it wasn't. It was a complete disaster.

Orchestrated by a dolloper.

Anyway, I suppose we will need to start a new manager thread soon as I can't see JDT hanging around after the transfer farce.

[Mike E]

8 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I have never said that the squad Tomasson inherited was "top 6/8 material." 8th place last season was devastating in the way it happened but just as a league result having had our best player sold and no reinvestment, it was an impressive finish at the same time.

Only without the context of being the literal worst post-Christmas fall away points-wise (3pts for a win) from the automatic promotion spots in the history of the second division. Seriously.

[M_B]

1 hour ago, islander200 said:

 

JDT is overachieving with the squad.Nobody on here would have had us down to be in fourth place and be in an fa cup quarter final after already making the last 16 in the league cup.

Of course still time for it to fall apart but currently he is getting more out of the squad than Mowbray did or would have .

I do think Mowbray did ok in general just stayed here way too long and last season as soon as we lost Rothwells drive from midfield after by far his best form here and Brererton got injured/stopped scoring as regularly.

We lost the club captain, Rothwell, Nyambe and van Hecke and Khadra went back.All important members of the first 11 when we where doing well as soon as the squad players were called upon we fell away in the league 

I don't really believe In over achieving, I don't see how it's possible, you can't do more than you're capable of, it's impossible,unless you purely go off money spent. 

I do think that the league is a lot weaker/even than it has been for a while, it's maybe a factor in us being so high. I've been saying for months that this could be our best chance for the foreseeable. 

[roversfan99]

42 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

No it wasn't. It was a complete disaster.

Orchestrated by a dolloper.

Anyway, I suppose we will need to start a new manager thread soon as I can't see JDT hanging around after the transfer farce.

 

35 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Only without the context of being the literal worst post-Christmas fall away points-wise (3pts for a win) from the automatic promotion spots in the history of the second division. Seriously.

I mentioned the devastating drop off, it was absolutely shocking. It was an absolutely incredible first half of the season to go into the new year in 2nd, 6th would have been impressive considering we had sold our best player and hadnt reinvested, and a terrible second half. Averaging out as 8th which if we had picked those points out in a more consistent manner would have been seen as a good season. The season was far from a disaster, just the way it happened is.

[XLM]

27 minutes ago, M_B said:

I don't really believe In over achieving, I don't see how it's possible, you can't do more than you're capable of, it's impossible,unless you purely go off money spent.

Over-achieving is achieving more than is expected, not achieving more than is possible.

For instance, we are over achieving so far this season given the squad we have. Last season we probably also over achieved given the squad. But we embarrassingly under achieved given where we were in January.

The season before that we under-achieved to such a ridiculous degree that the manager had no right to remain in post.

[Upside Down]

48 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 

I mentioned the devastating drop off, it was absolutely shocking. It was an absolutely incredible first half of the season to go into the new year in 2nd, 6th would have been impressive considering we had sold our best player and hadnt reinvested, and a terrible second half. Averaging out as 8th which if we had picked those points out in a more consistent manner would have been seen as a good season. The season was far from a disaster, just the way it happened is.

Averaging it out over the season would have been mediocre.

Enough of last season now please.