Jon Dahl Tomasson - Sweden coach

[Mattyblue]

Bowyer revisionism now. Interesting.

Nice bloke, did his best, but was learning his trade, ergo we wasted our last chance to get out the league relatively quickly. Should never have got the gig full time.

[DE.]

I'm a bit surprised you'd label my post as revisionism when I'm just trying to debate my view, but if that's how you feel I'll leave it there. 

[Mattyblue]

Fair enough, thought we were just having a debate.

You obviously rate GB more than I ever did/do. Game of opinions.

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Mattyblue

[DE.]

Debate is fine, but saying I'm being revisionist seemed unnecessary. I don't think I've said anything factually incorrect or unfair. I don't rate Bowyer particularly, but do think he had his own problems to contend with (including being a novice manager himself), which made the job difficult for him as well - albeit in a very different context. 

[Mattyblue]

I think people tend to be revisionist with managers as time passes (unless the likes of Ke*n, of course).

The bloke had a lot of good qualities, but surely it can’t be argued that he was the right man for the job on a permanent basis, whereas JDT certainly is.

[DE.]

I certainly agree he wasn't the man for the job permanently. It was just Venky's going cheap and untested as they had done repeatedly up to that point. 

[Mattyblue]

Penny wise, pound foolish has been their mantra throughout.

[Blow-in]

2 hours ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

He's done pretty well considering he's working for Venkys, and was a bit late in being appointed. The lack of a decent striker is what has crippled us the most. Better than Mowbray? Probably. We'd be nowhere near the play offs by now, and be in a run of 1 win in the last 15 games if Tony was still here.

Mobray is not 1 in 15 with Sunderland this season, he appears to be about to squeeze us out of the playoffs.

 

Don't get me wrong, It was time for Mobray to go well before he actually went. But this team is not significantly weaker than last seasons, Diaz form was much better last season but we lost 3 pretty average players and their replacments are better.

[Mattyblue]

He’s a decent manager, something those with Mowbray Derangement Syndrome won’t accept.

[simongarnerisgod]

16 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

He’s a decent manager, something those with Mowbray Derangement Syndrome won’t accept.

i never understood the cultish love for mowbray,personally he bored me rigid with some of the tactics he employed,even in division one with squad that was so far ahead of others it was virtually impossible not to win  a league title

[Mattyblue]

Certainly a strange phenomenon, massively disliked by a load on here, yet never a murmur against him at Ewood.

No middle ground, which is odd as he’s a very middling kind of guy.

[Moptop1]

23 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Certainly a strange phenomenon, massively disliked by a load on here, yet never a murmur against him at Ewood.

No middle ground, which is odd as he’s a very middling kind of guy.

Never disliked him, just believe it was time for him to go. Thanks for  settling the ship, but he did need to go after about his third season with us. He cost us with his weird tactics. You could tell he wanted out, but just wouldn’t leave. I never trusted him as a manager. He was quite sly. In the end I was glad to see him gone.

[JHRover]

Mowbray's 'crowning glory' after 5 years in the job, 10 transfer windows, complete autonomy on recruitment, a bloated squad packed with experience was 69 points and narrowly missing out on the play-offs.

Tomasson may yet still better that in his first season, with 2 transfer windows, one of which was completely botched, where there has been little to no experience brought in and he has been forced to rely on the academy and on a tight budget.

He's also accomplished more in the two cup competitions this season than Mowbray managed in his 5.

He's done a better job than Mowbray IMO, even if we get 69 points or less. If he can't get us higher than 69 points in this division in the next 4 years after he's been able to spend and recruit well then there's an argument he's worse.

[JHRover]

Can I just check, if Mowbray gets Sunderland into the play-offs/promoted with someone else's squad having taken over mid-season does he get the credit for that or is it nothing to do with him as was the case when he took us down with someone else's squad having taken over mid-season?

[MarkBRFC]

13 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Can I just check, if Mowbray gets Sunderland into the play-offs/promoted with someone else's squad having taken over mid-season does he get the credit for that or is it nothing to do with him as was the case when he took us down with someone else's squad having taken over mid-season?

I get what your saying, but Mowbray took over Sunderland in August. Hardly mid-season.

[Mashed Potatoes]

12 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Can I just check, if Mowbray gets Sunderland into the play-offs/promoted with someone else's squad having taken over mid-season does he get the credit for that or is it nothing to do with him as was the case when he took us down with someone else's squad having taken over mid-season?

 He took over Sunderland at the end of August when they had only played 5 games whereas he took over Rovers when there were only 15 games left. What, as mentioned on another thread, I think is known as Mowbray Derangement Syndrome. To describe 5 games in as "mid season" must be an acute state of that condition.

[DE.]

With Rovers, Mowbray proved he could lead a club to solid mid-to-upper table finishes in the Championship with a relatively small budget (albeit not having to sell players regularly) and even have the club flirting with playoff positions. He could never get us beyond that point though. It'll be interesting to see if he's given time at Sunderland to show he can go beyond that. 

Edited April 23, 2023 by DE.

[tomphil]

What Mowbray inherited at Sunderland seems to be a pool of young talented forward players and that is paying dividends for him. 

For the most part you'll read the same comments from Sunderland fans as there was here, yet hes only been there 5 mins, however they've just hit a bit of form at the right time.   Something that never happened at Ewood under him but i'd suggest up there he's being pushed/pushing himself a little bit harder.

He doesn't have free reign over the place he's under a DoF and has 30k fans scrutinising him not 12k so easy street isn't an option.

Added to that he is a solid very experienced manager at this level and probably would've had us in the play offs last season if he'd been able to sign a striker ( if he wanted one) and applied a little more urgency. So it's no real surprise he might have them finishing up there.

It's somebody else's squad not one he's been holding back for years.

 

[LDRover]

I disliked the guy because he made many a comment belittling the club during his tenure despite the fact he was on the managerial scrapheap when we appointed him.

[roverblue]

Mowbray was a dour fella, we could win 3-0 and he would sound like he was ready to jump off a building. jDT is a lot more media friendly and polished in that respect.

In terms of performances I enjoyed watching us more at Ewood under Mowbray. I certainly wouldn’t be waiting since October to see us score more than 1 goal at home.

[simongarnerisgod]

23 minutes ago, roverblue said:

Mowbray was a dour fella, we could win 3-0 and he would sound like he was ready to jump off a building. jDT is a lot more media friendly and polished in that respect.

In terms of performances I enjoyed watching us more at Ewood under Mowbray. I certainly wouldn’t be waiting since October to see us score more than 1 goal at home.

we are a work in progress,jdt has done a good job with us considering he was late being appointed and then behind the scenes there was a gigantic cock up with the o`brien signing,i was`nt to convinced by the horror shows before christmas but since then we`ve been playing very well,i just hope he gets backed in the summer,i don`t think he`s the type to stick around if there is no hope for improvement

[booth]

4 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Bowyer revisionism now. Interesting.

Nice bloke, did his best, but was learning his trade, ergo we wasted our last chance to get out the league relatively quickly. Should never have got the gig full time.

Imagine if they'd appointed Warnock when they had the chance instead of Coyle and given him the cash that they gave to Mowbray.

[Waggy76]

4 hours ago, Blow-in said:

Mobray is not 1 in 15 with Sunderland this season, he appears to be about to squeeze us out of the playoffs.

 

Don't get me wrong, It was time for Mobray to go well before he actually went. But this team is not significantly weaker than last seasons, Diaz form was much better last season but we lost 3 pretty average players and their replacments are better.

Never replaced Rothwell ...The other 2 I agree with you .

[DE.]

33 minutes ago, booth said:

Imagine if they'd appointed Warnock when they had the chance instead of Coyle and given him the cash that they gave to Mowbray.

We definitely wouldn't have gotten relegated in 16/17. With that said, the squad and the club as a whole was in a very sad state at the time, so it may have just contributed to us treading water for another few years at best. Warnock may never have been given the backing Mowbray had, instead having to contend with what Bowyer/Lambert/Coyle were given around that time period. In some ways the relegation seemed like a bit of a wake up call for the owners, as at the very least we haven't spiralled back into the same dire situation we were in between 2015 - 2017. The squad hasn't regressed to that point at any time since then, and we haven't had to suddenly rely on emergency loans (cash, not players) to get by, as I seem to remember we were in 2015. 

Edited April 23, 2023 by DE.

[Blow-in]

29 minutes ago, Waggy76 said:

Never replaced Rothwell ...The other 2 I agree with you .

Think Rothwell is completely over-rated. Would have Sammy ahead of him.