Jon Dahl Tomasson - Sweden coach

[DE.]

One of the major things that does need to be addressed in the summer is the team's mentality/confidence issue, something that's been a problem for multiple seasons now. Our inability to come from behind to win, and our tendency to go on runs like the one we're on now, simply has to stop if we're going to seriously threaten the top six. 

It's unlikely we're going to have the budget to replace a significant amount of the squad - or maybe even a small amount of the squad - so this is going to need to be resolved in another way. The club as a whole surely has to understand that this is a major problem, and steps need to be taken to address it, if they aren't already doing so. From memory we're one of, if not the worst team in the top four divisions when it comes to gaining points from a losing position. Yet before our current run started we were excellent at gaining points if we scored the first goal, which very clearly points to an issue with the team's mentality. 

It doesn't necessarily come down to coaching specifically, and possibly falls more into the realms of sports psychology, but something needs to be done to sort this out. It's been going on for too long to be considered anything other than a deep-rooted problem. 

[JHRover]

42 minutes ago, DE. said:

One of the major things that does need to be addressed in the summer is the team's mentality/confidence issue, something that's been a problem for multiple seasons now. Our inability to come from behind to win, and our tendency to go on runs like the one we're on now, simply has to stop if we're going to seriously threaten the top six. 

It's unlikely we're going to have the budget to replace a significant amount of the squad - or maybe even a small amount of the squad - so this is going to need to be resolved in another way. The club as a whole surely has to understand that this is a major problem, and steps need to be taken to address it, if they aren't already doing so. From memory we're one of, if not the worst team in the top four divisions when it comes to gaining points from a losing position. Yet before our current run started we were excellent at gaining points if we scored the first goal, which very clearly points to an issue with the team's mentality. 

It doesn't necessarily come down to coaching specifically, and possibly falls more into the realms of sports psychology, but something needs to be done to sort this out. It's been going on for too long to be considered anything other than a deep-rooted problem. 

Agree, but I think a lot of it stems from not having enough experience and nasty players around the place.

This goes back to Mowbray - who seemed to only want to recruit 'nice lads' even when he went after experience, and then in the last 2 years the Club has embarked on a 'project' where they only seem interested in younger players whether that be from our academy or on loan from PL clubs. Going down such a route of nice young lads brings drawbacks as well as positives, one of which is that when the chips are down you tend not to have the know-how or doggedness to drag a way back into a game. 

Sometimes in the last 20 minute of Championship games when the chips are down you have to find a different way to do it - that might involve peppering the opposition box and hoping for a fluke like Preston got against us the other week, or throwing everyone at it and getting a lucky handball goal like Coventry. 

We just don't do enough of it and the results of it are there for all to see. We don't go direct or throw men forward into the opposition box. Even yesterday chasing a winner Hyam still preferred to go back to Pears rather than launch it forwards.

It definitely comes back to recruitment and 'project' talk but I can't help but think if we dropped a Warnock into the mix things would immediately be very different on that front. 

 

[DE.]

3 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Agree, but I think a lot of it stems from not having enough experience and nasty players around the place.

This goes back to Mowbray - who seemed to only want to recruit 'nice lads' even when he went after experience, and then in the last 2 years the Club has embarked on a 'project' where they only seem interested in younger players whether that be from our academy or on loan from PL clubs. Going down such a route of nice young lads brings drawbacks as well as positives, one of which is that when the chips are down you tend not to have the know-how or doggedness to drag a way back into a game. 

Sometimes in the last 20 minute of Championship games when the chips are down you have to find a different way to do it - that might involve peppering the opposition box and hoping for a fluke like Preston got against us the other week, or throwing everyone at it and getting a lucky handball goal like Coventry. 

We just don't do enough of it and the results of it are there for all to see. We don't go direct or throw men forward into the opposition box. Even yesterday chasing a winner Hyam still preferred to go back to Pears rather than launch it forwards.

It definitely comes back to recruitment and 'project' talk but I can't help but think if we dropped a Warnock into the mix things would immediately be very different on that front. 

Completely agree. That's why all of our incoming transfers can't be based solely on the criteria of resale value and development. You need some hard-nosed, experienced grafters in there as well. We have literally zero of this in midfield, and defensively we have a relatively young and inexperienced backline. I've said it before, but we desperately need a player like Todd or Nelsen who has the know-how to manage the game on the pitch whilst refusing to allow heads or standards to drop. Players who genuinely seethe at the thought of losing, who can't stand themselves or their team mates putting in anything less than 100%. Players who may rock the boat on occasion, but always demand more from themselves and those around them, including the manager. 

I can't think of a single player in our team right now who fills that role. They'll have a go at each other occasionally on the pitch, but that isn't the same thing. It's an attitude that can't be coached, it's either in you or it isn't. It doesn't need to be in every player, but it needs to be in a couple of them at least.  

[NeilInBristol]

2 hours ago, booth said:

If it was that simple then teams wouldn't spend stupid amounts of money on better players.

There's good players and bad players and there's not much coaches can do if a player is particularly poor, or won't listen, that's why they get sold on and end up as a journeyman in the lower leagues. Sure good coaching may yield improvements but I've seen the likes of Gallagher & Dolan under two different managers and their play is exactly the same, they make the same mistakes. I can only assume that it's a player issue. Hedges was well known as inconsistent well before he arrived here. Brereton can't be arsed. Leonard is only 19. Before Gallagher was injured he was strolling into the box as players were on the wing, and he's been doing it since he's been here - that's on the player. I think we're expecting too much from the squad.

Expecting us to score a goal is not expecting too much. So many other teams have mf df and even a certain goalkeeper can score against us. Not expecting hat tricks but he has failed at addressing our goals for which is very disappointing 

[Blue blood]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

One of the major things that does need to be addressed in the summer is the team's mentality/confidence issue, something that's been a problem for multiple seasons now. Our inability to come from behind to win, and our tendency to go on runs like the one we're on now, simply has to stop if we're going to seriously threaten the top six. 

It's unlikely we're going to have the budget to replace a significant amount of the squad - or maybe even a small amount of the squad - so this is going to need to be resolved in another way. The club as a whole surely has to understand that this is a major problem, and steps need to be taken to address it, if they aren't already doing so. From memory we're one of, if not the worst team in the top four divisions when it comes to gaining points from a losing position. Yet before our current run started we were excellent at gaining points if we scored the first goal, which very clearly points to an issue with the team's mentality. 

It doesn't necessarily come down to coaching specifically, and possibly falls more into the realms of sports psychology, but something needs to be done to sort this out. It's been going on for too long to be considered anything other than a deep-rooted problem. 

Excellent post. One of my main worries. Clearly something JDT has inherited but equally something he hasn't tackled. Perhaps unfair to sort in one season, given its deep rooted nature, but how long should he have? Had hoped for improvements in this area but in fairness it's a big ask to change a culture in a year. If it's not tackled over the summer and a marked improvement seen by the halfway point of next season I'd be worried he can't change it or hasn't seen the danger.  

[Upside Down]

13 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I’ve watched Morris quite a lot over the years - he was always a busy hardworking physical forward who’d run all day. But having to shoulder the burden of leading the line meant he was a bit of a blunt instrument. However putting another guy up there with him to share the work means he’s become much more dangerous in front of goal.

For me there’s a lesson there.

Who'd have thought that two strikers would be better than one

[Upside Down]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

Completely agree. That's why all of our incoming transfers can't be based solely on the criteria of resale value and development. You need some hard-nosed, experienced grafters in there as well. We have literally zero of this in midfield, and defensively we have a relatively young and inexperienced backline. I've said it before, but we desperately need a player like Todd or Nelsen who has the know-how to manage the game on the pitch whilst refusing to allow heads or standards to drop. Players who genuinely seethe at the thought of losing, who can't stand themselves or their team mates putting in anything less than 100%. Players who may rock the boat on occasion, but always demand more from themselves and those around them, including the manager. 

I can't think of a single player in our team right now who fills that role. They'll have a go at each other occasionally on the pitch, but that isn't the same thing. It's an attitude that can't be coached, it's either in you or it isn't. It doesn't need to be in every player, but it needs to be in a couple of them at least.  

Too many games this season where we just threw in the towel, sometimes even before kickoff.

That is what has cost us. We should have been challenging for second but instead were limping out of the playoffs without a whimper.

[booth]

1 hour ago, Neilbristol said:

Expecting us to score a goal is not expecting too much. So many other teams have mf df and even a certain goalkeeper can score against us. Not expecting hat tricks but he has failed at addressing our goals for which is very disappointing 

Haha, it is with our lot!

You must be able to see that these players have also struggled to find their scoring boots elsewhere, their records are easily accessible. With the obvious exception of Dack and Brereton but as someone creatively dubbed them the other day, more like "the corpses of Dack and Brereton".

I remember looking up what the Aberdeen fans were saying about Hedges before we signed him. Mr Inconsistent who misses sitters. Mowbray excelled at discovering those types of forwards.

[ben_the_beast]

I agree with those saying we need a couple of nasty players who through force of will can drag us back into games. 

The other thing I think we're missing, of equal importance is a bit of individuality. We play in set patterns because we have a lack of flair. A player who can take their man on and pull others out of position. Without that, it becomes very easy to defend against us and is no surprise that the only players in with a shout for player of the season were defenders. 

We desperately need that player with a nasty streak and knowhow  in the middle, 2 wingers who can take their man on and a striker to put the ball in the net. 

Not an easy task, but doable with a couple of smart loans.

[NeilInBristol]

14 hours ago, booth said:

Haha, it is with our lot!

You must be able to see that these players have also struggled to find their scoring boots elsewhere, their records are easily accessible. With the obvious exception of Dack and Brereton but as someone creatively dubbed them the other day, more like "the corpses of Dack and Brereton".

I remember looking up what the Aberdeen fans were saying about Hedges before we signed him. Mr Inconsistent who misses sitters. Mowbray excelled at discovering those types of forwards.

Yeah indeed..our squad needs a bit of overhaul if we are to do anything decent. We need better players but a clear out, similar to arsenal's of the last couple of years. Problem is, January is proof that the owners won't back JDT. I'm still waiting for the return in investment from the Armstrong sale..

[Upside Down]

Just waiting now for the announcement of JDT's exit.

He's not been phenomenal but he's done a very good job overall.

Having the senior management of the club sabotage the season makes his position untenable. I honestly can't see him staying and putting up with that shit.

[Sparks Rover]

31 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

Just waiting now for the announcement of JDT's exit.

He's not been phenomenal but he's done a very good job overall.

Having the senior management of the club sabotage the season makes his position untenable. I honestly can't see him staying and putting up with that shit.

Or he can keep his £1m per annum salary and have no real pressure for a few years...🤔  move to Leeds, probably out of a job within 12 months....

[AllRoverAsia]

30 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

Just waiting now for the announcement of JDT's exit.

He's not been phenomenal but he's done a very good job overall.

Having the senior management of the club sabotage the season makes his position untenable. I honestly can't see him staying and putting up with that shit.

If Leeds get relegated then JDT would become a viable option having done a good job for us with a threadbare squad and senior management working to a different and dubious agenda.

His agent will now be busy in the market and I expect no shortage of suitors.

[AllRoverAsia]

2 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Or he can keep his £1m per annum salary and have no real pressure for a few years...🤔  move to Leeds, probably out of a job within 12 months....

Or that not unattractive option if he has caught Ewood malaise.

[Upside Down]

12 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Or he can keep his £1m per annum salary and have no real pressure for a few years...🤔  move to Leeds, probably out of a job within 12 months....

Don't confuse Tony Mowbray with JDT.

[JHRover]

He did the hard part and got a small, young squad into the top 6 heading into the second half of the season having only arrived late in the first place due to ineptitude in replacing Mowbray.

The 'powers that be' failed with the easy part, which was to back him during January with a couple of half decent additions that might have made the world of difference and got us over the line.

If they failed to back him in January, when exactly are they going to back him?

Answer = never. And he knows it.

Bowyer and Mowbray put up with it because putting up with it was their only ticket to being a Championship manager. A bloke like JDT, with contacts across Europe and a stellar playing CV behind him will have plenty of other options coming up and he isn't afraid to give up a good number (Malmo) in pursuit of something better.

Lesson to learn = these cretins have no intention of changing their ways or making the effort to get promoted. It's autopilot mode with the club doing what it can with whatever Venkys set in the summer and that's your lot.

[roverandout]

4 minutes ago, JHRover said:

He did the hard part and got a small, young squad into the top 6 heading into the second half of the season having only arrived late in the first place due to ineptitude in replacing Mowbray.

The 'powers that be' failed with the easy part, which was to back him during January with a couple of half decent additions that might have made the world of difference and got us over the line.

If they failed to back him in January, when exactly are they going to back him?

Answer = never. And he knows it.

Bowyer and Mowbray put up with it because putting up with it was their only ticket to being a Championship manager. A bloke like JDT, with contacts across Europe and a stellar playing CV behind him will have plenty of other options coming up and he isn't afraid to give up a good number (Malmo) in pursuit of something better.

Lesson to learn = these cretins have no intention of changing their ways or making the effort to get promoted. It's autopilot mode with the club doing what it can with whatever Venkys set in the summer and that's your lot.

We will get nowhere with venkys because they are happy to trundle along just ploughing money into the club with no reward.  I'm not a huge jdt fan but he's by far and away the best manager we've had. I have zero faith he would be replaced with someone of similar standing 

[Mattyblue]

Hang on, you were calling him a dickhead who had to go three days ago 😁

[booth]

14 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Or he can keep his £1m per annum salary and have no real pressure for a few years...🤔  move to Leeds, probably out of a job within 12 months....

I'm not sure why he'd be out of a job within 12 months considering it's commonly accepted that if we had a couple of strikers we'd be at least in the play offs. At a club with better resources, and less besuited dickheads, he'd have a promotion on his CV.

Edited May 4, 2023 by booth

[LeftWinger]

19 minutes ago, booth said:

it's commonly accepted that if we had a couple of strikers we'd be at least in the play offs. 

I was having a look before at how common it is to find a 20 goal striker at this level. Over the last 10 seasons it's been achieved 47 times in the Championship. I was most amazed that we had two of them in 2014/15 (IIRC) - as Rhodes and Gestede both hit 20 league goals for the season. How on earth we didn't make the play-offs that season I do not know. 6 players reached 20 goals that season - 2 of them played for Rovers! A 20 goal a season striker would have got us into the play-offs at least this season.

[wilsdenrover]

4 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Hang on, you were calling him a dickhead who had to go three days ago 😁

No one should be held to what they say mid-strop 😁

[booth]

7 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I was having a look before at how common it is to find a 20 goal striker at this level. Over the last 10 seasons it's been achieved 47 times in the Championship. I was most amazed that we had two of them in 2014/15 (IIRC) - as Rhodes and Gestede both hit 20 league goals for the season. How on earth we didn't make the play-offs that season I do not know. 6 players reached 20 goals that season - 2 of them played for Rovers! A 20 goal a season striker would have got us into the play-offs at least this season.

We had a rookie manager. And he's since been sacked by Bradford and Salford City so I think it's safe to say he was never any good in the first place. He was just blessed with some good players.

I'll always be annoyed at Bowyer for throwing the game against Burnley when we were on top.

[wilsdenrover]

12 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I was having a look before at how common it is to find a 20 goal striker at this level. Over the last 10 seasons it's been achieved 47 times in the Championship. I was most amazed that we had two of them in 2014/15 (IIRC) - as Rhodes and Gestede both hit 20 league goals for the season. How on earth we didn't make the play-offs that season I do not know. 6 players reached 20 goals that season - 2 of them played for Rovers! A 20 goal a season striker would have got us into the play-offs at least this season.

We had Cairney and King that season too

[Mattyblue]

And the good versions of Marshall and Conway 

[wilsdenrover]

We had Hanley and Duffy too - I think that was before the latter ‘went rogue’