Jon Dahl Tomasson - Sweden coach

[SuperBrfc]

3 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

This roughly equates to the Mowbray "journey".

Keep the faith - it'll all come good at some unspecified point years into the future. When everyone eventually wakes up and smells the coffee and realise it hasn't worked it doesn't matter by then. I've stuffed my pockets full of cash and can sail off merrily into the sunset.

Blackburn who?

Yeah, that is how it feels. Wing it and hope has been the story of the last 13 years. There's no better example of that than the words of Venkatesh Rao in that "we are confused" interview.

When asked about the situation at Rovers at the time and how things could be improved, he said:

"We are good people. We have never done harm to anybody. We believe things will turn around for us".

10 years on...

[J*B]

1 hour ago, B16Rover said:

Nothing we don't know but still bleak.   

Championship player salaries. Death by 1,000 cuts, it’s all directly related back to the owners. 

[SuperBrfc]

1 hour ago, NeilInBristol said:

Thanks for that. What I don't get is their (GB and co) assumption that r rate xg etc = value of player going up. If a player doesn't score or the team keep losing what is the point of these values? To sell him with an addendum saying if he has good or better players around him he will score but just with us he can't score?

Honestly, I don't know how the R rate tallies with player value. I'm assuming the figures for xG, xA and whatever else, can be interpreted to show that player x creates y amount of quality chances, plays z amount of key balls etc.

My takeaway from the R rate quote is that it is a way to measure success. The better those metrics are the more the club is improving and players are developing. But like you said, if those figures are low, then what?

[SuperBrfc]

1 hour ago, wilsdenrover said:

I don’t see how that makes sense either!

The premise of Goodhart’s law is if a measure becomes a target you can manipulate things to ensure you meet it.

In these instances you’ve met the target but you’ve not necessarily achieved the success the measure was intended to help you achieve.

I hope that makes sense, I fear that it doesn’t!!

 

That makes more sense to me. Thanks for explaining.

[Mattyblue]

Obviously we are down the bottom end, but hmm not sure about some of those salaries.

Sheff Wed straight out of the third division with the same wage bill as parachute club Watford, as one example? 

[B16Rover]

44 minutes ago, J*B said:

Championship player salaries. Death by 1,000 cuts, it’s all directly related back to the owners. 

I know it's down to the owners and I know Barry Bannan is on 90k a week at Sheff Weds but who else are they paying big money to to be 9tha Nd above Boro and Hull

[Mattyblue]

Is he buggery on 90k a week!

[AllRoverAsia]

50 minutes ago, J*B said:

Championship player salaries. Death by 1,000 cuts, it’s all directly related back to the owners. 

That's got L1 here we come written all over it.

[JHRover]

50 minutes ago, J*B said:

Championship player salaries. Death by 1,000 cuts, it’s all directly related back to the owners. 

And if those figures are correct I'd love someone to explain how we are regularly among the biggest loss makers and continually under apparent threat from FFP.

Why aren't all those other clubs with similar incomes yet substantially higher wage bills under embargoes, e.g. Preston and why can almost all of them charge less for season tickets....

[joey_big_nose]

56 minutes ago, J*B said:

Championship player salaries. Death by 1,000 cuts, it’s all directly related back to the owners. 

Interesting list. Do you know what's the source is and how is it derived?

[B16Rover]

8 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Is he buggery on 90k a week!

It was exaggerated but wasn't he on 30 in league 1?

[Mattyblue]

£20k according to various sites. The rest are League 1 journeymen (I.e why they’ll be heading back there), so they’ll be on peanuts compared to Watford players.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Mattyblue

[joey_big_nose]

Thinking about it in terms of salaries cant the rough numbers be derived from published accounts?

To validate what's on that list do any of our stattos have the most recent published salary numbers from our accounts? @canadarover?

[wilsdenrover]

10 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Thinking about it in terms of salaries cant the rough numbers be derived from published accounts?

To validate what's on that list do any of our stattos have the most recent published salary numbers from our accounts? @canadarover?

Year ending 30/6/2022 = £24.3 million staff costs of which £21.3 million was salaries…

Edited December 31, 2023 by wilsdenrover

[Rogerb]

The numbers don't add up of people to me senior football players and management 75 ? The academy is listed separately. Yes we had a change of manager in 2022 but 75.

[Leonard Venkhater]

3 hours ago, wilsdenrover said:

I don’t see how that makes sense either!

The premise of Goodhart’s law is if a measure becomes a target you can manipulate things to ensure you meet it.

In these instances you’ve met the target but you’ve not necessarily achieved the success the measure was intended to help you achieve.

I hope that makes sense, I fear that it doesn’t!!

 

Hitting the Target. Missing the point(s).

[wilsdenrover]

22 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Hitting the Target. Missing the point(s).

Much more succinct. 😀

[joey_big_nose]

1 hour ago, wilsdenrover said:

Year ending 30/6/2022 = £24.3 million staff costs of which £21.3 million was salaries…

Yeah so that list is total nonsense then!

Really appreciate the research @wilsdenrover

Edited December 31, 2023 by joey_big_nose

[wilsdenrover]

29 minutes ago, Rogerb said:

The numbers don't add up of people to me senior football players and management 75 ? The academy is listed separately. Yes we had a change of manager in 2022 but 75.

I agree it sounds high but I’ve no idea who it includes. 

[Rogerb]

In fact as at 30 June 22 it was mowbrays last day.

[Rogerb]

27 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Yeah so that list is total nonsense then!

Really appreciate the research @wilsdenrover

Or that list isn't nonsense and the figures in the accounts have been massaged 

[wilsdenrover]

6 minutes ago, Rogerb said:

In fact as at 30 June 22 it was mowbrays last day.

That figure is (or is supposed to be!) the average number of employees during the year so TM and JDT shouldn’t have been ‘double counted’ anyways.

[J*B]

54 minutes ago, Rogerb said:

Or that list isn't nonsense and the figures in the accounts have been massaged 

I think it’s likely the list is nonsense - I was just shared it on Twitter, it may well be bullshit! Would love to see an accurate one. 

[Rogerb]

Staff and players 1 July 21 to 30 June 22 senior team

Suhail Waggott Mowbray Venus Johnson Benson Sheron lowe

Kaminski Pears Stergiakis Eastham Hilton Dowling

Nyambe Pickering Johnson Ayala Davenport Armstrong Rothwell Gallagher Dolan JRC

Butterworth Wharton S Chapman Buckley BBD Dack Carter Lenihan Travis Magliore

Brennan Pike Garrett Vale McBride Sam Barnes Annesley saadi Pleavin Durrant Clarkson Poveda Van Heckle Khadra Edun Sam Burns Harry Leonard James Brown Zeefuick Hedges Markandy Giles Wharton A.

extended scholar contracts Cirino Harlock Gilsenan Baker Ferguson Lonsdale

That's 62 including the scholars nowhere near 75 as shown in accounts 

 

Edited December 31, 2023 by Rogerb
Missed lowe

[joey_big_nose]

2 hours ago, Rogerb said:

The numbers don't add up of people to me senior football players and management 75 ? The academy is listed separately. Yes we had a change of manager in 2022 but 75.

Good shout! Maybe something for the supporters trust to ask a question on?

I guess it may include all the fitness and coaching staff?

Edit - just saw the above, so thats not the answer. No idea where the 75 comes from?

Edited December 31, 2023 by joey_big_nose