Jon Dahl Tomasson - Sweden coach

[Groundhog]

Getting off Mowbray and back on the thread subject.

Does anyone feel JDT and team did any pre-match research on the opposition? I don't.

I feel like it was:

Playing a big club with lots of expensive players: pass it about at the back, draw them onto us and play 3 perfect forward passes to get the odd break.

Playing a mid table club with a star man: pass it about at the back, draw them onto us and get the odd break, let the star man have the lots of the ball in as much space as possible

Playing a lower league side: pass it about at the back, draw them onto us and get the odd break, but do it reaaaaaally slowly, just chill yeah? 

Playing in the cup: do what you want, pressure's off, let's have it!

Playing a local rival: do what we normally do, the fact they're 100x times more up for it will be their downfall, they'll over commit and we can draw them onto us and get the odd break. No pressure lads, there's more fans here to scare you shitless, but don't worry about that.

I'm tired and I want to have a laugh, sorry, it's grim out there.

Edited February 7 by Groundhog

[Penwortham Blue]

9 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Mowbray was competent. But because of that and him succeeding Kean, Berg, Appleton, Bowyer and Coyle he is of course seen as a massive success.

Fundamentally his highest finish in 5 years was 8th.

He had time and he had backing and that was the best he could do. 

Compare and contrast to what others have done in a fraction of the time elsewhere.

A big +ve in the Mowbray analysis is the players he brought in and developed. Of course the Armstrongs, Rothwells, Diaz's all good. But I'm sure if the owners and board had actually applied pressure and demands on league position and results rather than just leave him be for 5 years we might have had less player projects and perhaps some higher finishes.

The cynic in me suggests he knew his route to longevity here was to convince the owners he was protecting and developing their 'investments' and once he was out of the way it was 'cashing in' time leading to today's mess.

That some people still pine for him 18 months on after his frankly disgraceful public comments and admissions sums up for me the depths and low standards the Indians have dragged this club to. Anywhere else and he'd just be consigned to the drawers of mediocrity.

I was glad to see the back of him, miserable twat who time and again dumbed down our club. What JDT achieved last season with no real backing, whilst playing entertaining football and putting pride back into our fans and club is night and day with the 5 year journey to nowhere.

[tomphil]

Forget about Mowbray he'll end up potted at Brum and if he stayed there for 5 years they'll never get promoted unless they chuck huge money at him.

He's more experience than JDT and understands this league way better that's why he followed death spirals with just doing enough to stay stable.  This guy doesn't have that in his locker but he has a bigger bum deal than TM ever had apart from when he first pitched up.

Even then he had Graham and Mulgrew in the ranks plus Bennett as a good PR man.

[JHRover]

I'm also convinced that secretly both Waggott and Pasha will want JDT gone and will have been expecting / hoping for his resignation for quite some time.

I bet he quickly saw through both of them after his arrival and realised what was going on here and after the cushy number with Mowbray his ambition and drive wasn't in keeping with their plans to plod, keep India happy and collect their wages.

JDT was obviously a Broughton man and not at all what the other two had in mind when they were looking at Mowbray's replacement.

I think Waggott will now move into 'damage limitation' mode of trying to deflect all our ills and issues away and onto JDT.

And I think there will be all sorts of dirty tricks to that end, to sway public opinion against the outgoing JDT and portray him as the problem, today's meeting being the first step.

I'm just wondering how they'll try and spin it next. Probably Damian Johnson and as you were with the staff and costs, dressed up as 'popular ex player making the step up'

'Get behind Damo FFS'

[booth]

23 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

JDT ‘has only himself at heart’… but TM ‘gave the club a lot of heart’

Lock the thread 😁

[bb1rover]

There was a lot to like about JDT, like his changing the way all levels of the club play, to a specific style.

However he has a big hand in this relegation form. As a manager it's your job to motivate your team, shield them from things that would bring their morale down. Ultimately the venkys and the board are to blame for the mess we're in, but JDT and his antics have a hand in all of this too. His interviews from very early on, were not of talking about the club as one team. He'd refer to things as, dont ask me ask whoevers job that is. Silly answers to put Greg and the board under pressure to get him what he wants.

He could have kept a unified persona and complained behind the scenes, instead he did it on camera. None of this will have helped the players. 

Personally I dont think other clubs will be chasing him, who would want a manager who may say something like "we all know this team needs a 20 goal striker, it's down to the scouts and board to find and secure one". Then have the fans blame the board if they dont get one (not saying he said this already, but it's his style). Which board would want a manager who doesn't show a unified front? 

 

He's got lots going for him, but he also has a lot to learn.

[Pedro]

15 minutes ago, booth said:

What has January got to do with it? The project changed post-transfer window.

Let's stick with solid facts though, he finished 7th, which is higher than the guy you were praising.

You said about players going and the project changing were reasons for them dropping off a cliff. If you didn't mean that, be clearer.

Also, stop with the nonsense of trying to undermine the fact that Mowbray was a very decent appointment for us at the time. So with the greatest respect, stick to the solid facts yourself. The guy got us promoted and we were securely in the Championship off the back of it.  He'd took us as far as he was capable of but strangely, took his next team higher than JDT managed.

...But talk about mind-blowing, someone else making 7th out to be an achievement - when the mighty Luton got promoted on a shoestring and Mowbray's Sunderland made the play-offs.  It's no wonder this club is fucked from top to bottom. Apart from the failures of the owners and board, it blows my mind the acceptance and celebration of absolute mediocrity on here and how passive we have been with underachievement, disorganisation, mistakes, missed-opportunities and toothless displays. 

We get the product we deserve I suppose - but I believe we can do better and we should be demanding better.

 

 

[Mattyblue]

He’ll get a job no problem.

[DE.]

Mowbray never had to deal with the financial and recruitment insanity that JDT has had to put up with. JDT could only dream of having £7m to spend on a handful of players, let alone a single striker. 

JDT's biggest issue was an inability to adapt his tactics - but he's a rookie manager, you have to accept that he isn't going to be comfortable or confident enough at this point in his career to rapidly and decisively change direction when things aren't working. If he had been given the backing for the 'project' he had presumably been promised before joining, he would have likely been able to learn slowly by tweaking his preferred tactics as opposed to having to massively alter them due to the squad being repeatedly downgraded. He did make tweaks to his tactics here and there, obviously believing in himself and his methods, but too much damage had been done. You can't bring in an inexperienced manager, dump all of this garbage on them and expect everything to somehow work. It was inevitable that things would end this way. 

At a more stable club with stronger backing JDT will get his chance to grow and learn. Here he will have learnt some much needed lessons too - albeit mostly centred around how incompetence and neglect can torpedo any chance of success. 

 

[Pedro]

26 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Mowbray was competent. But because of that and him succeeding Kean, Berg, Appleton, Bowyer and Coyle he is of course seen as a massive success.

Fundamentally his highest finish in 5 years was 8th.

He had time and he had backing and that was the best he could do. 

Compare and contrast to what others have done in a fraction of the time elsewhere.

A big +ve in the Mowbray analysis is the players he brought in and developed. Of course the Armstrongs, Rothwells, Diaz's all good. But I'm sure if the owners and board had actually applied pressure and demands on league position and results rather than just leave him be for 5 years we might have had less player projects and perhaps some higher finishes.

The cynic in me suggests he knew his route to longevity here was to convince the owners he was protecting and developing their 'investments' and once he was out of the way it was 'cashing in' time leading to today's mess.

That some people still pine for him 18 months on after his frankly disgraceful public comments and admissions sums up for me the depths and low standards the Indians have dragged this club to. Anywhere else and he'd just be consigned to the drawers of mediocrity.

Do people pine for him? I haven't looked on here for years so it is a genuine question.

[Mike E]

@J*B Would I be right in describing the ‘secret’ bits as actually already in the public domain as rumour, but not official from the club?

[Ewood Ace]

3 minutes ago, Pedro said:

Also, stop with the nonsense of trying to undermine the fact that Mowbray was a very decent appointment for us at the time. So with the greatest respect, stick to the solid facts yourself. The guy got us promoted and we were securely in the Championship off the back of it.  He'd took us as far as he was capable of but strangely, took his next team higher than JDT managed.

...But talk about mind-blowing, someone else making 7th out to be an achievement - when the mighty Luton got promoted on a shoestring and Mowbray's Sunderland made the play-offs.  It's no wonder this club is fucked from top to bottom. Apart from the failures of the owners and board, it blows my mind the acceptance and celebration of absolute mediocrity on here and how passive we have been with underachievement, disorganisation, mistakes, missed-opportunities and toothless displays. 

We get the product we deserve I suppose - but I believe we can do better and we should be demanding better.

Here you are celebrating Tony Mowbray's achievements of getting us promoted from the third tier (after getting us relegated which you fail to mention) and then in 4 seasons in the Championship achieving a highest finish of 8th. And in the same post you talk of an acceptance and celebration of absolute mediocrity.

[Pedro]

1 minute ago, Ewood Ace said:

Here you are celebrating Tony Mowbray's achievements of getting us promoted from the third tier (after getting us relegated which you fail to mention) and then in 4 seasons in the Championship achieving a highest finish of 8th. And in the same post you talk of an acceptance and celebration of absolute mediocrity.

Seriously, has this site got a direct link to Calderstones these days or something?? 

 

Owen Coyle, Brockhall Ping Pong Champion, was the catalyst and reason for relegation. Mowbray turned up well into February and a few games too late.  Anyone who thinks other than that isn't worth the conversation. 

[Ewood Ace]

8 minutes ago, Pedro said:

Seriously, has this site got a direct link to Calderstones these days or something?? 

 

Owen Coyle, Brockhall Ping Pong Champion, was the catalyst and reason for relegation. Mowbray turned up well into February and a few games too late.  Anyone who thinks other than that isn't worth the conversation. 

We were 3 points from safety with 15 games to play when Mowbray took over. That is more than salvageable plenty of clubs have been in that position and stayed up.

Currently we are 5 points clear of the drop with 16/17 games left to play. So I assume you think that we are already safe from relegation?

You certainly apply some strange logic you don't give Mowbray any blame for relegation in a season where he managed over 30% of the games. Yet think it's all JDT's fault that 'As we stand, since 2001, we haven't been in a promotion position for the league that matters'.

Edited February 7 by Ewood Ace

[Aqualung]

14 minutes ago, Mike E said:

@J*B Would I be right in describing the ‘secret’ bits as actually already in the public domain as rumour, but not official from the club?

It's all in the WhatsApp groups chat. You'll have to do a bit of digging though. But from what I can gather from it, it is that JDT had lost the dressing room. Glen is the man to ask imho. 

[booth]

6 minutes ago, Pedro said:

You said about players going and the project changing were reasons for them dropping off a cliff. If you didn't mean that, be clearer.

The project changing can't have helped can it? Or are you saying that wouldn't affect on-field matters, morale, generally pissing off some players who were settled and thought we were building a promotion chasing squad? Luton didn't have that, nor Sunderland, nor any of the teams in the play offs or promoted.

6 minutes ago, Pedro said:

Also, stop with the nonsense of trying to undermine the fact that Mowbray was a very decent appointment for us at the time.

We finished 7th under one bloke but didn't under his predecessor who had much more time and money. I don't know how that is undermining Mowbray's appointment at the time. It's just what happened.

6 minutes ago, Pedro said:

He'd took us as far as he was capable of but strangely, took his next team higher than JDT managed.

Good for them.

6 minutes ago, Pedro said:

...But talk about mind-blowing, someone else making 7th out to be an achievement - when the mighty Luton got promoted on a shoestring and Mowbray's Sunderland made the play-offs. 

No one is making it out to be a high achievement, but it's the highest we've had so far in this league. You'd hope that with the same backing that other manager's under the V's have had, it could have turned out better.

Luton had been building for a long time and had two good strikers to get them promoted. They could have sold Adebayo but kept hold of him. Waggott wouldn't have done that.

6 minutes ago, Pedro said:

It's no wonder this club is fucked from top to bottom. Apart from the failures of the owners and board, it blows my mind the acceptance and celebration of absolute mediocrity on here and how passive we have been with underachievement, disorganisation, mistakes, missed-opportunities and toothless displays.

You like to exaggerate don't you.

God/martyr.
7th is an achievement.
Acceptance and celebration of absolute mediocrity.

Looking forward to the next one, if your mind hasn't blown again.

[Pedro]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

We were 3 points from safety with 15 games to play when Mowbray took over. That is more than salvageable plenty of clubs have been in that position and stayed up.

Currently we are 5 points clear of the drop with 16/17 left to play. So I assume you think that we are already safe from relegation?

The argument is in your head my friend.  I think we are heading down - hence why I am not a happy bunny and I am glad that through default, someone else will be managing us because this guy has thrown in the towel.

 

Facts are, we are absolutely toothless and leaderless. We are in freefall. We have been rock bottom of the form table for weeks now and have been beaten (often battered) by Sheffield Wed, Huddersfield, QPR.  We have conceded 3 or more in 5 of the last 10 games and that is because we are so poor at the basics, rather than being unpicked by great play.  It is dire and people seem hypnotised or distracted (on here) by how bad it actually is.

 

Anyway, goodnight, God bless and fingers crossed we manage to stay up because we won't bounce back this time.

 

[Norbert Rassragr]

If they don't go for an internal candidate, I dread to think which desperado will come in. Is Joe Kinnear still alive?

[Groundhog]

4 minutes ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

If they don't go for an internal candidate, I dread to think which desperado will come in. Is Joe Kinnear still alive?

Even after his recent twitter spat with our admin, can we 100% rule out Joey Barton? That is my main concern...😂

Or, if this all ends with a launch promo showing Wayne tucking into a family size box of wings, I'm done, we're all done. 

Edited February 8 by Groundhog

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Ewood Ace said:

He was brought in first of all to keep us up and he failed. So he certainly wasn't a good appointment in that respect. 

Have you noticed the massive cut in budget? Would you care to compare what Mowbray spent on players he wanted to what JDT has had spent for him by that clown Broughton?

JDT finished higher in 1 season here than Mowbray did in 6 despite having an inferior budget and not being able to bring in his own players. JDT also inherited a squad that had just lost it's player of the season and captain from the previous season.

Mowbray inherited a much, much worse squad and situation. We did spend on replacements for the out of contract players when Tomasson joined too, a rare window in which we spent a bit of money. We will never know if Tomasson could have properly kicked on from that having certainly shown signs last season that he could before the owners stopped that. He is ill suited to the current predicament. Although im not sure many people wouldnt be.

59 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I note you aren't jumping down those posters' throats because they're blaming someone else (JDT) for our demise other than the owners!

There are a lot of posts to catch up on but I havent seen anyone blame JDT for our demise and if they have then they are obviously misguided.

I do think that Tomasson without the rest of the shit show at a normal club would be on very thin ice now. 5 points from 11, the worst defensive record in the league and the worst set piece record in the league is not very good even allowing for the limitations of the squad. But Venkys are the main reason for the mess we are in. As ever. And Waggott, Broughton etc are symptoms of it.

59 minutes ago, Groundhog said:

Because fans are looking for answers and some of the shit that went on under his tenure is still happening now, just at a more extreme level. We fucked up January windows back then too. It's like a massive group therapy session with all sorts of old bollocks getting talked about. 

I feel that Mowbray's "it's not the 90s" attitude has prevailed in the club since (I'm talking from CEO down to certain playing staff). We seem to have forgotten what a proud club we are with certain standards that are expected, other clubs have it and use it to their advantage, we seem to have turned it into a millstone around our necks. 

I'd love to create new memories and not dwell on the golden years and JDT was someone who offered a glimpse of that, if completely flawed in doing so. I cannot fathom the paradox in my head of my enjoyment of that first season vs how shit the local derby games were and how poor our form was as a whole.  

That "its not 95" comment was a misguided and stupid but one off comment. The drop in standards came when Venkys came through the door, not through any murky stain that a manager supposedly left, especially not one that did a decent job.

46 minutes ago, booth said:

I don't know who brought up Mowbray, but it's batshit insane to praise the fella whilst giving the current fella some stick. If you aren't happy with JDT, it must follow that Mowbray was a smidge disappointing?

Mowbray deservedly got constant pelters at various points in his time here. Especially in that season we finished 15th and the last few months of his last season. Tomasson deserves some criticism for this season even if to say that he isnt the main issue is the biggest possible understatement ever. To me, both managers have done decent jobs. Tomasson seems a flawed but talented manager to which we will never know the full potential of at this club.

[Ewood Ace]

1 minute ago, Pedro said:

The argument is in your head my friend.  I think we are heading down -

So you think we are going down even though we are 5 points clear of relegation with 17 games to play (which is a game in hand on 22nd). But you think Mowbray could do nothing to keep us up even though we were only 3 points adrift with 15 games to play. 

[booth]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

Mowbray inherited a much, much worse squad and situation. We did spend on replacements for the out of contract players when Tomasson joined too, a rare window in which we spent a bit of money. We will never know if Tomasson could have properly kicked on from that having certainly shown signs last season that he could before the owners stopped that. He is ill suited to the current predicament. Although im not sure many people wouldnt be.

I don't think he did. It's comparable but I think this is the weakest squad I've ever seen. Sammie gives the impression it's better but he's one man. Our next best player, JRC is unfit. Who else would you want with you in the trenches? Hyam is decent but seems to have lost the plot. Tronstad is hit and miss but that's probably because he's on his own. Beyond that no names stand out for a scrap.

What we'd give for Danny Graham right now. Or Charlie Mulgrew. Or Craig Conway. Or even a lesser David Raya.

Or even a younger Sam Gallagher who knocked in 12 that season.

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Mowbray inherited a much, much worse squad and situation. We did spend on replacements for the out of contract players when Tomasson joined too, a rare window in which we spent a bit of money. 

Look at the money Mowbray spent £12 Million on two players alone. JDT has had players bought for him by that clown Broughton with the biggest fee being a couple million. Mowbray also until his final season when Armstrong went never lost anyone of his key players. No sooner had JDT taken over and the club captain had gone along with our best midfielder. Then in this summer he lost his goalkeeper, his top scorer and now in the winter has lost his best midfielder. 

[joey_big_nose]

57 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

He’ll get a job no problem.

Yeah think he will, but I will be surprised if its somewhere bigger than Rovers. Probably a sideways move. I can see another championship club going for him.

If hes left in the summer he would have been in a much better position and might have been able to get a club a step up to give him a go, but the last two months has torched that.

[roversfan99]

8 minutes ago, booth said:

I don't think he did. It's comparable but I think this is the weakest squad I've ever seen. Sammie gives the impression it's better but he's one man. Our next best player, JRC is unfit. Who else would you want with you in the trenches? Hyam is decent but seems to have lost the plot. Tronstad is hit and miss but that's probably because he's on his own. Beyond that no names stand out for a scrap.

What we'd give for Danny Graham right now. Or Charlie Mulgrew. Or Craig Conway. Or even a lesser David Raya.

Or even a younger Sam Gallagher who knocked in 12 that season.

I mean what he inherited, ie last summer. Although the squad now is still definitely better than what Coyle left.

That squad was shocking. Lowe, Guthrie and Akpan in midfield. Greer, Brown, Hendrie, Emnes, Stokes etc.