Jon Dahl Tomasson - Sweden coach

[DeeCee]

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I think we need 8 or 9 personally, but as you say, we can't rely and assume on these players stepping up as it is an unknown.

I would look to loan quite a few of these out because the gap between kids football and senior is so much that we could do with a good indicator of how close they actually are, rather than being on the fringes. Vale seemingly struggled in his last loan in non league and I thought Brown looked well off it at Birmingham, he is seemingly being banked on as a late developer as I am not even sure if the league he came from is fully professional.

Like a bit of of of positivity 

[roversfan99]

5 minutes ago, DeeCee said:

Like a bit of of of positivity 

Why is the default line something along the lines of being negative to constructive points?

It's not negative to suggest that we can't automatically assume that we can rely on kids right now that haven't played senior football. I haven't said that they aren't or won't be good enough.

 

[Armchair supporter supremo]

1 hour ago, bazza said:

If the work permit is anything like passport renewals, driving licences or powers of attorney, he'll be lucky to get one before Christmas. The inefficiency of the working people of this country is abominable.

Had my passport renewed last year, was kept up to date with the process by the automated service and received the replacement in less than 10 days, no problem 🤷‍♂️

Also renewed by drivers licence recently, all done online with no issues at all and recieved the new licence quickly. 

 

There's probably more people that are just crap at filing in forms correctly etc and checking everything is spot on before posting things off. 

 

Are you not a working person? 

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Armchair supporter supremo

[chaddyrovers]

14 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Why is the default line something along the lines of being negative to constructive points?

It's not negative to suggest that we can't automatically assume that we can rely on kids right now that haven't played senior football. I haven't said that they aren't or won't be good enough.

 

Is James Brown aged 24 and Jack Vale aged 21 really kids? 

[Mattyblue]

No, but he’s 24 and has played just one dead rubber game outside a semi-pro league, a very big ask to now try and make it at Championship level, at least academy grads have the excuse of being ‘kids’.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Mattyblue

[martonrover]

2 hours ago, bazza said:

If the work permit is anything like passport renewals, driving licences or powers of attorney, he'll be lucky to get one before Christmas. The inefficiency of the working people of this country is abominable.

More a case of the inefficiency of people in authority.

[roversfan99]

39 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Is James Brown aged 24 and Jack Vale aged 21 really kids? 

No but total novices at anything like Championship level.

[Dreams of 1995]

I’ve always thought those that throw around the terms “kids” to define 20+ year old professional athletes, as if it makes them somehow incapable of being trusted, have obviously never played a game of football in their lives 

Everybody has been young once. 
Fabio Carvalho was a “kid” last season for Fulham 

I don’t need to go on. Plenty of “kids” have came into first team football and hit the ground running. Jack Vale is 21. He won’t succeed or fail because he has only played “kids” football; he will succeed or fail based on whether or not he is good enough 

It’s painful reading the continued essays on how “kids” can’t be trusted and require loaning out. The gap really is not that big. And that is why the players that are good enough don’t get loaned, the likes of Foden for example, whilst those who require playing at a lower level to better develop do because they are not good enough 

At the level we are playing at if Jack Vale needs to go to L1 and L2 to understand the game then him being defined as a “kid” is not the reason he can’t hack the Championship. It is because he is not good enough. The standard of defending in this league really isn’t all that good for players that want to make in the top tiers of the game

The PL and other top divisions then maybe, yes, but if Vale can’t get be trusted to get goals against the likes of Hull, Cov, Blues etc then it might just be simply because he is not good enough to make it as a top football player. And in reality if you know football, like the people who are employed at pro clubs do, contrary to what we think in our iExpert mode, then they will know if he is good enough to be trusted or not 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Dreams of 1995

[chaddyrovers]

38 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

No but total novices at anything like Championship level.

Well time to see if they are good enough. 

[Paul Mani]

7 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I’ve always thought those that throw around the terms “kids” to define 20+ year old professional athletes, as if it makes them somehow incapable of being trusted, have obviously never played a game of football in their lives 

Everybody has been young once. 
Fabio Carvalho was a “kid” last season for Fulham 

I don’t need to go on. Plenty of “kids” have came into first team football and hit the ground running. Jack Vale is 21. He won’t succeed or fail because he has only played “kids” football; he will succeed or fail based on whether or not he is good enough 

It’s painful reading the continued essays on how “kids” can’t be trusted and require loaning out. The gap really is not that big. And that is why the players that are good enough don’t get loaned, the likes of Foden for example, whilst those who require playing at a lower level to better develop do because they are not good enough 

At the level we are playing at if Jack Vale needs to go to L1 and L2 to understand the game then him being defined as a “kid” is not the reason he can’t hack the Championship. It is because he is not good enough. The standard of defending in this league really isn’t all that good for players that want to make in the top tiers of the game

The PL and other top divisions then maybe, yes, but if Vale can’t get be trusted to get goals against the likes of Hull, Cov, Blues etc then it might just be simply because he is not good enough to make it as a top football player. And in reality if you know football, like the people who are employed at pro clubs do, contrary to what we think in our iExpert mode, then they will know if he is good enough to be trusted or not 

There’s a point in here but I don’t think it’s as clear cut as you suggest.

Its true that the very best young players, those considered as the Crown Jewels are rarely loaned out. Buckley was one and I wouldn’t be surprised if Ash Phillips is kept wrapped in cotton wool too. They have the ability and the mentality at a young age.

But, In the case of the other 98% the loan market is a very good way to increase a players exposure to competitive mens football, test their mental strength and give them time to develop physically if they’re not quite good enough for our first team. Scott Wharton is proof that it can work. 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Paul Mani

[Mattyblue]

7 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well time to see if they are good enough. 

Or maybe bring in players with a better pedigree than 24 year olds from semi pro leagues?

[Paul Mani]

Lovely noises coming from Brockhall about the new manager. “Like a breath of fresh air”…he’s making an impression. All positive 🤞🏽

[Dreams of 1995]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

Or maybe bring in players with a better pedigree than 24 year olds from semi pro leagues?

You mean the same league that has produced the likes of Coleman, Roy Keane, Shane Long, McLean etc? Go further back you have Paul McGrath 

I don’t think it is as clear cut as the league you come from. Vardy was playing non-league until late in his career 

If Brown is good enough he will fit in. This was a Mowbray signing, traditionally hit or miss, so time will tell if JDT rates him or not 

[Mattyblue]

6 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

You mean the same league that has produced the likes of Coleman, Roy Keane, Shane Long, McLean etc? Go further back you have Paul McGrath 

I don’t think it is as clear cut as the league you come from. Vardy was playing non-league until late in his career 

If Brown is good enough he will fit in. This was a Mowbray signing, traditionally hit or miss, so time will tell if JDT rates him or not 

Of course there are success stories. However, bit of a silly comparison, McGrath and Keane were playing in the first team of English top flight big boys at a way younger age. Keane was 19 at Forest and already on the way to being a big star. All the others were also playing in the PL regularly in their early 20s.

This lad is 24 and couldn’t get a game in a middling Championship side last season. He might turn out to be a decent squad man and there’s no harm in having him around as he’ll be on buttons. But let’s be realistic, we need to be upping our standards on recruitment if we want to compete at this level.

[Tugayisgod]

Article on how JDT likes to set his teams up. Interesting how it mentions that full backs play a huge role in his team. 
https://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/1133745938?-11198:839

[Tugayisgod]

[Upside Down]

3 minutes ago, Tugayisgod said:

Welcome to our world dingles.

[tomphil]

Welcome to our world Dingles, it's been a long time coming but you are now looking like getting a dose of what we had.

Although i doubt it'll be anything like as crazy or dodgy.

[oldjamfan1]

26 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Welcome to our world Dingles, it's been a long time coming but you are now looking like getting a dose of what we had.

Although i doubt it'll be anything like as crazy or dodgy.

Ooh, I don't know about that - the way they are set up financially is just about as dodgy as it gets.

[RoversClitheroe]

As I said a month ago, it Burnley went down to the championship they will get relegated soon after to league 1.

I don't think I'm wrong in my assumption 

[tomphil]

5 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

Ooh, I don't know about that - the way they are set up financially is just about as dodgy as it gets.

Yes it just about goes against everything that is supposed to be fit and proper in terms of protecting the club from going bust.

No sign of an Anderson/SEM/Kentaro/Vineeth/Shebby and other assorted chancers and loons yet though.

[Mattyblue]

7 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

Ooh, I don't know about that - the way they are set up financially is just about as dodgy as it gets.

I suppose it’s more above board dodginess, they’ve never hid their aims and business model from day one..

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

Lovely noises coming from Brockhall about the new manager. “Like a breath of fresh air”…he’s making an impression. All positive 🤞🏽

I’m not surprised by that but being honest anybody would be like a breath of fresh air after Mowbray and Venus. They’d being there far too long.

[Dreams of 1995]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

Of course there are success stories. However, bit of a silly comparison, McGrath and Keane were playing in the first team of English top flight big boys at a way younger age. Keane was 19 at Forest and already on the way to being a big star. All the others were also playing in the PL regularly in their early 20s.

This lad is 24 and couldn’t get a game in a middling Championship side last season. He might turn out to be a decent squad man and there’s no harm in having him around as he’ll be on buttons. But let’s be realistic, we need to be upping our standards on recruitment if we want to compete at this level.

I am not for one moment thinking he is the next Seamus Coleman but success does come from leagues like Ireland

I saw Brown at Blues and thought he looked good. He was up against Chong and Hernandez, who the Blues fans rated highly, and dealt with them well enough.

I ain't writing him off yet

[Exiled_Rover]

18 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I am not for one moment thinking he is the next Seamus Coleman but success does come from leagues like Ireland

I saw Brown at Blues and thought he looked good. He was up against Chong and Hernandez, who the Blues fans rated highly, and dealt with them well enough.

I ain't writing him off yet

Are you Irish by any chance?