Jon Dahl Tomasson - Sweden coach

[Gordon Ottershaw]

1 hour ago, RoversClitheroe said:

As I said a month ago, it Burnley went down to the championship they will get relegated soon after to league 1.

I don't think I'm wrong in my assumption 

I wish I could agree but I think Burnley are going to have a massive War Chest available to them. Unless someone can tell me otherwise, the loan payment will be met by next season's Parachute Payment and the sale of Cornet if a club, as seems likely, meets the release clause. They are in the process of selling Pope and Collins with Brownhill and O'Neill likely to go too. That should get them North of £40m. They have a ready made keeper replacement, two strikers in Vydra and Rodriguez that have scored goals at Championship level and a much reduced wage bill. This, along with season ticket sales, sponsorship etc means, for me, that they are going to be a formidable force next season. JDT might prove himself a better coach but I'm pretty sure he will be below Kompany next May.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Gordon Ottershaw

[Exiled_Rover]

6 minutes ago, Gordon Ottershaw said:

I wish I could agree but I think Burnley are going to have a massive War Chest available to them. Unless someone can tell me otherwise, the loan payment will be met by next season's Parachute Payment and the sale of Cornet if a club, as seems likely, meets the release clause. They are in the process of selling Pope and Collins with Brownhill and O'Neill likely to go too. That should get them North of £40m. They have a ready made keeper replacement, two strikers in Vydra and Rodriguez that have scored goals at Championship level and a much reduced wage bill. This, along with season ticket sales, sponsorship etc means, for me, that they are going to be a formidable force next season. JDT might prove himself a better coach but I'm pretty sure he will be below Kompany next May.

So they sell their best Keeper and see their three best CBs walk out of the club... 

They were never formidable in the first place - Dyche ground out wins. Kompany has a massive job on his hands.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Gordon Ottershaw said:

I wish I could agree but I think Burnley are going to have a massive War Chest available to them. Unless someone can tell me otherwise, the loan payment will be met by next season's Parachute Payment and the sale of Cornet if a club, as seems likely, meets the release clause. They are in the process of selling Pope and Collins with Brownhill and O'Neill likely to go too. That should get them North of £40m. They have a ready made keeper replacement, two strikers in Vydra and Rodriguez that have scored goals at Championship level and a much reduced wage bill. This, along with season ticket sales, sponsorship etc means, for me, that they are going to be a formidable force next season. JDT might prove himself a better coach but I'm pretty sure he will be below Kompany next May.

Similar to points on the board being better than games in hand, players in the building is better than money in the bank... especially with a manager with no experience. Same goes for us. Decent nucleus of young players, and lots of talk about healthy budgets, BBD money, etc. but still massively lacking in tangible assets.

I can see Burnley struggling (if mid table is a 'struggle') but it's also an open league this year. Even the teams that have come down this year don't stand out like in previous seasons. Any of 16 teams could realistically think they're in with a playoff shout. Any of 8/10 could fancy themselves for top 2.

 

[Gordon Ottershaw]

1 hour ago, Exiled_Rover said:

So they sell their best Keeper and see their three best CBs walk out of the club... 

They were never formidable in the first place - Dyche ground out wins. Kompany has a massive job on his hands.

Kompany is a gamble but they have adequate Championship quality cover for Pope and they are apparently getting Harwood-Bellis on loan as well as bidding for a Centre Back from Oxford. They appear to have already been active in the transfer market for the likes of Twine who I think will be out of JDT's reach.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Gordon Ottershaw

[Commondore]

On 16/06/2022 at 10:58, booth said:

I don’t think they’d won anything for a few seasons, JDT turned up and delivered two title wins and champions league group success.

I imagine they were pretty chuffed.

They hadn't won anything for two years prior to JDT, but before that they won the league four times in five seasons.  Due to playing in the Champions League and Europe League and some big player sales abroad they're easily the richest club in Sweden's top division, and while not winning the league with them isn't quite grounds for dismissal it's usually seen as a failure. Fans were pleased with JDT's performance, but he wasn't seen as some savior who raised them up from the gutter. I asked a hardcore Malmö fan about him:
 

"He's fairly principled, always played a high pressing game with the aim of winning the ball back within 5 seconds after losing it. Always aimed to dominate games but trusted the attacking players to find ways forward themselves, his attacking play was never overly organized in that way. He seemed to lack a plan B during times the when the high pressing game wasn't effective, and we tended to have some trouble in the last 20 minutes or so of games when the players had rund themselves ragged. In the end it's hard to call him anything but a big success, but this was probably also a good time for him to move on."

[Exiled_Rover]

48 minutes ago, Commondore said:

They hadn't won anything for two years prior to JDT, but before that they won the league four times in five seasons.  Due to playing in the Champions League and Europe League and some big player sales abroad they're easily the richest club in Sweden's top division, and while not winning the league with them isn't quite grounds for dismissal it's usually seen as a failure. Fans were pleased with JDT's performance, but he wasn't seen as some savior who raised them up from the gutter. I asked a hardcore Malmö fan about him:
 

"He's fairly principled, always played a high pressing game with the aim of winning the ball back within 5 seconds after losing it. Always aimed to dominate games but trusted the attacking players to find ways forward themselves, his attacking play was never overly organized in that way. He seemed to lack a plan B during times the when the high pressing game wasn't effective, and we tended to have some trouble in the last 20 minutes or so of games when the players had rund themselves ragged. In the end it's hard to call him anything but a big success, but this was probably also a good time for him to move on."

Well they're 5th this year so he was doing something right!

Edited June 22, 2022 by Exiled_Rover

[tomphil]

Bowyer left years ago i'm not sure why we have to be headlining birthday greetings on twitter to every ex manage and player. I want to see current club news on there.

It's nice to be nice but sometimes you have to just let go and move on leave the OTT virtue signalling to Lineker and the like.

Edited June 22, 2022 by tomphil

[Mattyblue]

Hope he has a real good day.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Mattyblue

[Beanie01289]

5 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Bowyer left years ago i'm not sure why we have to be headlining birthday greetings on twitter to every ex manage and player. I want to see current club news on there.

It's nice to be nice but sometimes you have to just let go and move on leave the OTT virtue signalling to Lineker and the like.

It doesn't matter does it them doing that takes little to no time out their day and is a nice touch.

[tomphil]

17 minutes ago, Beanie01289 said:

It doesn't matter does it them doing that takes little to no time out their day and is a nice touch.

I look forwards to your similar comments when the next one pops up, then  the next.

Legends yes, forget the rest.

[rigger]

14 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

No, but he’s 24 and has played just one dead rubber game outside a semi-pro league, a very big ask to now try and make it at Championship level, at least academy grads have the excuse of being ‘kids’.

He looked at ease playing for the U23's, good enough at that level, let's hope he makes the step-up to first team squad.

[Mattyblue]

I hope so too, however its a big, big step up from semi pro and U23 football.

But good to look him, certainly looks to have a good attitude.

[roversfan99]

14 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I’ve always thought those that throw around the terms “kids” to define 20+ year old professional athletes, as if it makes them somehow incapable of being trusted, have obviously never played a game of football in their lives 

Everybody has been young once. 
Fabio Carvalho was a “kid” last season for Fulham 

I don’t need to go on. Plenty of “kids” have came into first team football and hit the ground running. Jack Vale is 21. He won’t succeed or fail because he has only played “kids” football; he will succeed or fail based on whether or not he is good enough 

It’s painful reading the continued essays on how “kids” can’t be trusted and require loaning out. The gap really is not that big. And that is why the players that are good enough don’t get loaned, the likes of Foden for example, whilst those who require playing at a lower level to better develop do because they are not good enough 

At the level we are playing at if Jack Vale needs to go to L1 and L2 to understand the game then him being defined as a “kid” is not the reason he can’t hack the Championship. It is because he is not good enough. The standard of defending in this league really isn’t all that good for players that want to make in the top tiers of the game

The PL and other top divisions then maybe, yes, but if Vale can’t get be trusted to get goals against the likes of Hull, Cov, Blues etc then it might just be simply because he is not good enough to make it as a top football player. And in reality if you know football, like the people who are employed at pro clubs do, contrary to what we think in our iExpert mode, then they will know if he is good enough to be trusted or not 

You are right in that it ultimately comes down to quality and we don't know if these players are good enough but even if they aren't it doesn't mean that they never will be.

A loan spell is a very common way to develop players to bridge that gap between uncompetitive under 23 football and 2nd tier professional football. Take Wharton who a few years ago was well off Championship standard so went to League 2, impressed there whilst physically developing which then gave us some confidence that he could hack it at Championship level, the same could happen to Carter. The gap between Championship (as average a standard as it is) whereby results are the priority and playing against mainly players in their late teens that are still growing and the emphasis is development is a world apart which means that it is very difficult to gauge if they are up to the level.

The examples you use are stand out examples but the key is not expecting ALL of the mentioned names to all break through together (likely some never will, history tells us that) at the expense of first team reinforcements. When Foden or Carvalho came through, neither City nor Fulham had that summer decided to sign 4 or 5 less players expecting that many players with no senior experience to all break through at once, on the back of a mass exodus of players leaving the club. The whole discussion stems from whether we can expect them all to break through or whether we should sign players and treat any breakthroughs as a nice bonus.

I don't get the need for that final paragraph either. None of us are experts but it doesn't mean that our opinions shared on a messageboard need to be patronised and dismissed.

[rigger]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

You are right in that it ultimately comes down to quality and we don't know if these players are good enough but even if they aren't it doesn't mean that they never will be.

A loan spell is a very common way to develop players to bridge that gap between uncompetitive under 23 football and 2nd tier professional football. Take Wharton who a few years ago was well off Championship standard so went to League 2, impressed there whilst physically developing which then gave us some confidence that he could hack it at Championship level, the same could happen to Carter. The gap between Championship (as average a standard as it is) whereby results are the priority and playing against mainly players in their late teens that are still growing and the emphasis is development is a world apart which means that it is very difficult to gauge if they are up to the level.

The examples you use are stand out examples but the key is not expecting ALL of the mentioned names to all break through together (likely some never will, history tells us that) at the expense of first team reinforcements. When Foden or Carvalho came through, neither City nor Fulham had that summer decided to sign 4 or 5 less players expecting that many players with no senior experience to all break through at once, on the back of a mass exodus of players leaving the club. The whole discussion stems from whether we can expect them all to break through or whether we should sign players and treat any breakthroughs as a nice bonus.

I don't get the need for that final paragraph either. None of us are experts but it doesn't mean that our opinions shared on a messageboard need to be patronised and dismissed.

Another parameter is the quality of player that we can afford to sign, on our budget, whatever that is. 

[tomphil]

Spent the last few windows spending modest sums on the likes of Pickering, Edun and Markandy so i don't see that altering. The trick is hopefully to do better than some of those within similar means i expect.

Also they've taken on guys in the recruitment dept from Oxford etc so obviously looking for their experience of the lower league markets.

We'll be linked via the lazy journos to players from clubs GB and JDT have been involved with obviously but i wouldn't get to carried away about that.

[Dreams of 1995]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

You are right in that it ultimately comes down to quality and we don't know if these players are good enough but even if they aren't it doesn't mean that they never will be.

A loan spell is a very common way to develop players to bridge that gap between uncompetitive under 23 football and 2nd tier professional football. Take Wharton who a few years ago was well off Championship standard so went to League 2, impressed there whilst physically developing which then gave us some confidence that he could hack it at Championship level, the same could happen to Carter. The gap between Championship (as average a standard as it is) whereby results are the priority and playing against mainly players in their late teens that are still growing and the emphasis is development is a world apart which means that it is very difficult to gauge if they are up to the level.

The examples you use are stand out examples but the key is not expecting ALL of the mentioned names to all break through together (likely some never will, history tells us that) at the expense of first team reinforcements. When Foden or Carvalho came through, neither City nor Fulham had that summer decided to sign 4 or 5 less players expecting that many players with no senior experience to all break through at once, on the back of a mass exodus of players leaving the club. The whole discussion stems from whether we can expect them all to break through or whether we should sign players and treat any breakthroughs as a nice bonus.

I don't get the need for that final paragraph either. None of us are experts but it doesn't mean that our opinions shared on a messageboard need to be patronised and dismissed.

Uncompetitive? Talk about being patronising and dismissive. You should say that to the lads who go out and compete each and every week; who celebrate their wins and hate their losses. Outside of a kick about with friends I don’t think I have ever played an uncompetitive game of football! 😆

And no need to be defensive about the last paragraph. I meant myself in that too. We are all playing experts here, some more than others

The truth is good players who are ready don’t need loaning. Wharton wasn’t good enough at that point. It’s as simple as that. The likes of Dunn, Duff and Jones were ready and didn’t need it. If JDT decides to play Vale it is because he deems him good enough. Him playing with “kids” in an “uncompetitive” league bears zero relevance 

And actually them teams did leave gaps. When David Silva left Guardiola made it quite clear Foden was coming into the squad. They didn’t reinforce because they expected him to fill that gap. We are also talking high level elite football here. This is the Championship. 

Dillian Markanday has only played “kids” football. We paid £1m for him.

And most of these people you call “kids” are not. They are professional athletes. 
Ive seen it be said many times on here that we cannot trust a player because they’ve only played “kids” football before. My post was about that. I don’t really read yours and Chaddys discussions much anymore because they are circular. And my point was that if a player is good enough him playing “kids” football is irrelevant and he doesn’t require a loan to a worse league to allow him to showcase his talent. Professional people, experts in their field, are paid handsomely to know that before putting them in the 1st team or not 

So *if* Mr JDT does not sign a striker and uses Vale as back up that is because he considers Vale good enough. There’s plenty of 25+ affordable dollopers who have played plenty of “competitive mens” football to sign if he didn’t. Take a look at same of the signings we’ve made to understand that. 
So if we see Carter, Vale, Garrett or whoever starting that is a sign they are considered good enough. And I will trust the opinion of the likes of Johnson, JDT and Broughton (after seeing his CV) over those of people who are typically quite negative about players. And for your beloved constructiveness I will judge them on that decision too, but I certainly won’t write them lads off as not ready because they are all grown men 

[Mattyblue]

‘Uncompetitive’ is probably the wrong word, but it does lack intensity. Which is fair enough when it consists of young lads, first team players out of favour (some with a sulk on) and first teamers nursing their way back from injuries.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Mattyblue

[chaddyrovers]

7 hours ago, RoversClitheroe said:

As I said a month ago, it Burnley went down to the championship they will get relegated soon after to league 1.

I don't think I'm wrong in my assumption 

I posted that in the dingles thread

[yeti-dog]

Apologies if this has been posted previously but I found it an interesting read. 

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/head-coach-analysis/jon-dahl-tomasson-at-blackburn-rovers-202223-tactical-analysis-tactics

[Exiled in Toronto]

2 hours ago, yeti-dog said:

Apologies if this has been posted previously but I found it an interesting read. 

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/head-coach-analysis/jon-dahl-tomasson-at-blackburn-rovers-202223-tactical-analysis-tactics

Rothwell wouldn’t have fitted into that at all.

[chaddyrovers]

@RoversClitheroeyou will be happy with this

 

 

[arbitro]

And he wears Levis too. This bloke is really growing on me. 😂😂

 

[J*B]

Just now, arbitro said:

And he wears Levis too. This bloke is really growing on me. 😂😂

 

This is really sad - but i'm looking over the training ground as we speak and theres no way thats today - its a complete blue sky.

[Mike E]

2 minutes ago, J*B said:

This is really sad - but i'm looking over the training ground as we speak and theres no way thats today - its a complete blue sky.

Blue sky today isn't it?

[J*B]

3 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Blue sky today isn't it?

yeah thats what I mean - that sky has streaky clouds. Maybe it changed in 30 minutes but thats not over brockhall at the mo!