Premier League 22-23

[Exiled_Rover]

1 minute ago, Mattyblue said:

You’d have been straight back to your Prague hotel room for a cup of tea, I take it? 😁

I wouldn't still be celebrating with the fans at 9am the next day.

[Mattyblue]

Why not?

[ben_the_beast]

7 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Is Rice is a dribbler? I meant in terms of controlling possession, last night was a perfect example, he struggled in that regard. He is average in terms of passing and thats what I think he would struggle with if he went to a really big team.

Don't get me wrong, he is a very good player. Very good at winning the ball back, his defensive awareness, his energy. On the ball, average. I think his strengths lie as a defensive midfielder, same point to @chaddyrovers obviously all of those midfielders are holding midfielders, I am not convinced that he would thrive as a box to box midfielder.

If I were looking for a player in Rice's position I'd be looking no further than Amrabat. Based on his performances in the World Cup and in direct comparison last night he is the better player. Perfect positional play, strong, intelligent, great in the tackle and brilliant vision. I'm sure he'd cost half the price of Rice too.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, roverandout said:

He is actually very good at dribbling with the ball. I've seen him do it a number of times 

We used to have a saying about players - “ He dribbles when he comes to a pair of feet “. Rice can get his head up running with the ball but when it comes to taking people on he’s a bit head down.

[philipl]

Got to say this for the Premier League.

Only 3 of the Super League 6 in the Champions League

Only 4 out of 8 of the erstwhile self appointed big 6 qualified for Europe. 

The ESL luvvies in other countries have no equivalent challenges.

Serie A has enjoyed a revival getting finalists in all European competitions and perhaps not unconnected with Napoli breaking the monopoly. 

[speeeeeeedie]

17 hours ago, roverandout said:

He's not world class yet but he's a top class Box to box midfielder 

He will be. He captained West Ham at 21. Is an ever present for club and country. He's strong, mobile, and has lots of composure. 

Oddly, I realised how good he was against some non-league team in the FA Cup. West Ham were struggling. He decided to take the game by himself and set up (or scored?) the winner late on.

If he played for Blackburn Rovers we'd all be talking about how he is one of the best ever.

[Oldgregg86]

4 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I hope Rice gets himself to Liverpool. He'll get guaranteed game time under a manager who will really drill into him the art of turning the ball over and then passing forward and direct. Klopp made Henderson a much better player and Rice is naturally better than Henderson

The future is bright for the English midfield with him and Bellingham in there

Bellingham signed for Real Madrid 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

22 minutes ago, speeeeeeedie said:

He will be. He captained West Ham at 21. Is an ever present for club and country. He's strong, mobile, and has lots of composure. 

Oddly, I realised how good he was against some non-league team in the FA Cup. West Ham were struggling. He decided to take the game by himself and set up (or scored?) the winner late on.

If he played for Blackburn Rovers we'd all be talking about how he is one of the best ever.

Yeah I remember that game also. He took the game by the scruff of the neck when all around him the other Wham players were looking lost. A real captains performance.

[jny]

6 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Bellingham signed for Real Madrid 

Which is probably the best place for him for English football, imagine being able to train/improve alongside the likes of Kroos, Modric, Valverde... fingers crossed it works out

[Dreams of 1995]

7 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Bellingham signed for Real Madrid 

I meant for England!!

[Oldgregg86]

28 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I meant for England!!

you was talking about Klopp bringing the best out of him. I agree he will be integral to England going forward 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Oldgregg86

[roversfan99]

4 hours ago, roverandout said:

I heard about an Italian substitute saying why have England taken off rice in the euros final as he was bossing the midfield at that point 

If I recall correctly, Italy totally dominated after the early goal and we barely had a kick. I certainly don't think that Rice "bossed the midfield."

2 hours ago, ben_the_beast said:

If I were looking for a player in Rice's position I'd be looking no further than Amrabat. Based on his performances in the World Cup and in direct comparison last night he is the better player. Perfect positional play, strong, intelligent, great in the tackle and brilliant vision. I'm sure he'd cost half the price of Rice too.

Very true if you are looking for value. Amrabat was great in the World Cup and is better on the ball than Rice, and likely to be much cheaper. Of course Rice is an overall more attractive package, but not sure he could dictate in the same way.

Bonaventura was also superb further forward and Fiorentina totally dominated without having much in attack.

I don't ever see Rice becoming a player that can dictate the player, his strengths lie elsewhere. He can definitely play further up, but the question comes from the inevitable massive price tag. I doubt that Liverpool could afford him but if they want to revert to high intensity, he would fit that more than City where he couldn't do what Rodri does and would spend all season next to Phillips sat on his arse.

@Hasta got it right with his summary. I also felt that Fiorentina dominated, it was a bit of a smash and grab with Fiorentina not creating enough. Rice underwhelmed and lost the ball a few times, for me the stand out light is Paqueta who set up the goal, brilliant technician.

[roverandout]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/12896812/declan-rice-why-west-ham-captain-is-wanted-by-arsenal-manchester-united-and-bayern-munich

This describes just how good he is

Edited June 8, 2023 by roverandout

[chaddyrovers]

12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Is Rice is a dribbler? I meant in terms of controlling possession, last night was a perfect example, he struggled in that regard. He is average in terms of passing and thats what I think he would struggle with if he went to a really big team.

Don't get me wrong, he is a very good player. Very good at winning the ball back, his defensive awareness, his energy. On the ball, average. I think his strengths lie as a defensive midfielder, same point to @chaddyrovers obviously all of those midfielders are holding midfielders, I am not convinced that he would thrive as a box to box midfielder.

Rice is ball player centre midfielder but a defensive midfielder who protects the back 4 and chips in with a few goals each season. He is a leader and someone Both Liverpool and Arsenal could do with for next season. 

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

I also felt that Fiorentina dominated, it was a bit of a smash and grab with Fiorentina not creating enough. Rice underwhelmed and lost the ball a few times, for me the stand out light is Paqueta who set up the goal, brilliant technician.

Rice was the leader last night in the latter stages of the game by closing down them down and giving his all which inspired his team mates. Fiorentina created very little for all their possession. West Ham aren't possession based team under Moyes but created the best chances in the game. It wasn't a smash and grab at all. 

[simongarnerisgod]

rice,like mason mount is  heavily hyped by the media,both good players but neither are the dogs whatsits they are made out to be,both of them are miles behind bellingham in ability,i think grealish and foden are a lot better as well

[roversfan99]

15 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Rice is ball player centre midfielder but a defensive midfielder who protects the back 4 and chips in with a few goals each season. He is a leader and someone Both Liverpool and Arsenal could do with for next season. 

Rice was the leader last night in the latter stages of the game by closing down them down and giving his all which inspired his team mates. Fiorentina created very little for all their possession. West Ham aren't possession based team under Moyes but created the best chances in the game. It wasn't a smash and grab at all. 

My point was that Rice isn't technically good enough to dictate games. He doesn't for club or country and he isn't one of the very best. Still a very good player but not up there with the Rodri's of this world.

[chaddyrovers]

19 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

My point was that Rice isn't technically good enough to dictate games. He doesn't for club or country and he isn't one of the very best. Still a very good player but not up there with the Rodri's of this world.

dictate games isn't Rice or Rodri game so don't understand why are so big issue of it. 

You wouldn't play De Bruyne for example as defensive midfielder to protect the back 4 would you cos its not his role?  

Edited June 8, 2023 by chaddyrovers

[Upside Down]

9 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Bring back the Cup Winners Cup…
 

And only let the actual Champions play in the Champions League.

[simongarnerisgod]

37 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

And only let the actual Champions play in the Champions League.

i wholeheartedly agree

[roversfan99]

I get why from a tradition point of view, but I do think you would dilute the quality by only having Champions in.

For example, next season, you would be taking out Real and Atletico Madrid, Arsenal, Man United, Newcastle, both Milan clubs etc.

[DeeCee]

He's the new Hendo 

Edited June 8, 2023 by DeeCee

[DeeCee]

He's pretty good now and will improve. Good player.

Edited June 8, 2023 by DeeCee

[roverandout]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

My point was that Rice isn't technically good enough to dictate games. He doesn't for club or country and he isn't one of the very best. Still a very good player but not up there with the Rodri's of this world.

Rice isn't a dictator (no jokes) his game is based on covering for more technically gifted players.  He is supreme at winning back possession.  Playing it simple.  He does have the ability to make runs with the ball. He's also a much better passer than people give him credit for. I would say kante wasn't brilliant in possession (I know I'll hear how good kante was on the ball, which isn't true). Hes similar  to Roy Keane. He's only 24 so his potential is huge. What makes his and Bellingham's partnership in midfield so good is that they both have different strengths.  Once he joins a club with better players he'll really shine

[roversfan99]

6 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Rice isn't a dictator (no jokes) his game is based on covering for more technically gifted players.  He is supreme at winning back possession.  Playing it simple.  He does have the ability to make runs with the ball. He's also a much better passer than people give him credit for. I would say kante wasn't brilliant in possession (I know I'll hear how good kante was on the ball, which isn't true). Hes similar  to Roy Keane. He's only 24 so his potential is huge. What makes his and Bellingham's partnership in midfield so good is that they both have different strengths.  Once he joins a club with better players he'll really shine

Could Roy Keane not dictate games?

[riverholmes]

For England, Rice has had games where he’s run at and beaten players in surging runs. He has the capacity, I think of being a progressive midfielder.

I’d like to see how he performs with freedom to get forward in a way he didn’t really when he played deep-lying alongside Phillips. 

That said, he’s inevitably overrated because he’s English (via Eire) but still an excellent player. One concern I might have is he may, from my limited knowledge, be in with the world of social media personalities which can be a distraction. But helping his team win a tournament is evidence against that.

I have been reflecting on West Ham’s win and I do wonder whether it is such an achievement. From my reckoning they have the biggest wage bill of all the teams in the tournament (based on pure guesswork, so could be wrong). 
 
Sure, they deserve plaudits and beat some prestigious sides like Fiorentina and Alkmaar, although not sure how strong either are.