Premier League 22-23

[Mashed Potatoes]

2 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

They’ve never really moved on from sacking Sam. That’s after having spent a large fortune with several managers.

That's the very strong argument for keeping faith with Frank Lampard. He is not responsible for the mess that the club is in , which is primarily down to largely poor recruitment decisions regarding managers and players. The entitled attitude of some of their supporters regarding the style of play doesn't help. I think that at the moment the Everton managerial position is the most difficult in English football.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

9 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

That's the very strong argument for keeping faith with Frank Lampard. He is not responsible for the mess that the club is in , which is primarily down to largely poor recruitment decisions regarding managers and players. The entitled attitude of some of their supporters regarding the style of play doesn't help. I think that at the moment the Everton managerial position is the most difficult in English football.

I watched that game on Friday night. I got the impression that the players were still playing for him. You could say sacking should only be considered when that ceases to be the case. Having said that do you think that Dyche could do a better job ? Personally I think he could.

Edited January 8, 2023 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Mattyblue]

In normal circumstances, possibly you could make an argument for keeping him on. But can Everton really risk a relegation when half way through building a new stadium?

Edited January 8, 2023 by Mattyblue

[Mashed Potatoes]

17 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I watched that game on Friday night. I got the impression that the players were still playing for him. You could say sacking should only be considered when that ceases to be the case. Having said that do you think that Dyche could do a better job ? Personally I think he could.

I don't think Dyche's record makes it a clearcut decision. The point I would make is that if they go for Dyche then they must go full in which means committing for the next 2 to 3 years to a pragmatic approach which might not fit well with their support.

[Mashed Potatoes]

6 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

In normal circumstances, possibly you could make an argument for keeping him on. But can Everton really risk a relegation when half way through building a new stadium?

They are risking relegation now to a significant degree because of the constant chopping and changing of the manager, and some of the players. The club has been run on the New Messiah syndrome with each new manager hailed as The One ; I don't personally think Lampard is so poor that it is a no-brainer to fire him.

[Mattyblue]

They are a basket case who have made a lot of bad decisions, but that doesn’t change the here and now and mean they shouldn’t make a change this time. He’s had them in two consecutive relegation battles. 

If they want to carry on with a failing bloke, it’s up to them, but it’s a hell of a risk for them.

 

 

[chaddyrovers]

44 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

They’ve never really moved on from sacking Sam. That’s after having spent a large fortune with several managers.

Blimey he was there for 167 days in charge. That it. In all fairness I think they replaced fine when they got Ancelotti in

39 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

That's the very strong argument for keeping faith with Frank Lampard. He is not responsible for the mess that the club is in , which is primarily down to largely poor recruitment decisions regarding managers and players. The entitled attitude of some of their supporters regarding the style of play doesn't help. I think that at the moment the Everton managerial position is the most difficult in English football.

I would say its down to the owner and no coherent plan or transfer approach. Its been scattergun approach to transfers and managers appointed. 

30 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I watched that game on Friday night. I got the impression that the players were still playing for him. You could say sacking should only be considered when that ceases to be the case. Having said that do you think that Dyche could do a better job ? Personally I think he could.

Who knows what Dyche might do? it may work or not there but Everton cannot carry on with hire and fire policy of sacking managers which since the new owner came in they have had 7 different managers in 6 years and spend over 600m million on signings over those years. The only thing they have gone from this incoherent approach towards managers and signings is worst in the league table. 

[Mashed Potatoes]

1 minute ago, Mattyblue said:

They are a basket case who have made a lot of bad decisions, but that doesn’t change the here and now and mean they shouldn’t make a change this time. He’s had them in two consecutive relegation battles. 

If they want to carry on with a failing bloke, it’s up to them, but it’s a hell of a risk for them.

 

 

He took them over at the end of January when they were 16th and already in a relegation battle and was charged with the brief of keeping them up; he succeeded. He then had to sell far and away their best player in Richarlison and make do with what signings the club were able to make. Why would yet another change of manager, who I think would be their 8th in 8 years, make a significant immediate difference ?

 

[Mattyblue]

Because new managers often do, especially in the short term (and short term is the point as they cannot afford to go down halfway through a stadium build). Why else are the likes of Big Sam often parachuted in? New voice, back to basics.

But I’d find it hilarious if they go down, so let’s follow your approach and crack on Lamps! 
 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Mattyblue

[roversfan99]

Those signings he had to make do with included 2 England international central defenders, a midfielder that cost over £20m, another midfielder on huge wages and then a striker for a sizeable fee from Brighton. I may be wrong but maybe Onana aside, the likes of Tarkowski, McNeil, Coady, Gueye and Maupay all seem like Lampard chosen/recommended signings, domestic based/with domestic history and taking very little imagination.

There is no doubt that there are far bigger issues at Everton but that doesn't excuse Lampard. His managerial record so far has not shown suggestions that he is a good manager or that Everton should continue with him.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

11 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Those signings he had to make do with included 2 England international central defenders, a midfielder that cost over £20m, another midfielder on huge wages and then a striker for a sizeable fee from Brighton. I may be wrong but maybe Onana aside, the likes of Tarkowski, McNeil, Coady, Gueye and Maupay all seem like Lampard chosen/recommended signings, domestic based/with domestic history and taking very little imagination.

There is no doubt that there are far bigger issues at Everton but that doesn't excuse Lampard. His managerial record so far has not shown suggestions that he is a good manager or that Everton should continue with him.

Maupay and McNeil were bad signings.

[roversfan99]

5 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Maupay and McNeil were bad signings.

Agreed.

[Tom]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

Because new managers often do, especially in the short term (and short term is the point as they cannot afford to go down halfway through a stadium build). Why else are the likes of Big Sam often parachuted in? New voice, back to basics.

But I’d find it hilarious if they go down, so let’s follow your approach and crack on Lamps! 
 

Blimey

I watched some of the game on Friday night and ITV were doing their best promotional work for Lampard trotting out every excuse under the sun 

Blimey

[K-Hod]

If Everton fans wouldn’t want Sean Dyche over Lampard, they’re more clueless and entitled than I gave them credit for.

An experienced manager who did an incredible job with that lot, or someone who hasn’t really done much anywhere, but was a hell of a player in the not too distant past…

[roversfan99]

I can see the Chelsea fans turning on Potter watching this.

[K-Hod]

Legitimately can’t remember Chelsea being this poor for a long time.

It’a not all Potter’s fault, granted and they do have a big injury list, but the fact remains, they look completely rudderless.

[Mashed Potatoes]

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I can see the Chelsea fans turning on Potter watching this.

In which case their board need to stand firm and support him. It took him a couple of years to get Brighton going forward the way he wanted. 

[K-Hod]

3 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

In which case their board need to stand firm and support him. It took him a couple of years to get Brighton going forward the way he wanted. 

It’s Chelsea, the new one, like the old one, seem to be pretty trigger happy….

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

In which case their board need to stand firm and support him. It took him a couple of years to get Brighton going forward the way he wanted. 

Not saying they should sack him by any means but that is a different situation, taking over a bottom half Premier League side with minimal historical expectation v taking over a club who expect to compete every season for trophies.

Maybe there is a risk based on recent performances that he is struggling to earn the respect of a playing squad full of big internationals?

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, K-Hod said:

It’s Chelsea, the new one, like the old one, seem to be pretty trigger happy….

You may well be proven right. I get the strong impression that Boehly,who now runs the club, knows a lot less than he thinks he does.

[Mashed Potatoes]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Not saying they should sack him by any means but that is a different situation, taking over a bottom half Premier League side with minimal historical expectation v taking over a club who expect to compete every season for trophies.

Maybe there is a risk based on recent performances that he is struggling to earn the respect of a playing squad full of big internationals?

I think the problem is that quite a few of those players are getting old together and are injury prone.

[jim mk2]

Potter was a poor appointment. I suppose when the likes of Chelsea offer you a job you have to take it but he really should have turned it down. A club like Brighton was perfect for him. 

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Those signings he had to make do with included 2 England international central defenders, a midfielder that cost over £20m, another midfielder on huge wages and then a striker for a sizeable fee from Brighton. I may be wrong but maybe Onana aside, the likes of Tarkowski, McNeil, Coady, Gueye and Maupay all seem like Lampard chosen/recommended signings, domestic based/with domestic history and taking very little imagination.

They signed some good players in the summer in Onana, Tarkowski and Coady but some poor ones also

 

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

There is no doubt that there are far bigger issues at Everton but that doesn't excuse Lampard. His managerial record so far has not shown suggestions that he is a good manager or that Everton should continue with him.

I think the biggest issue is the owner changing managers on regular basics with hire and fire policy leading to the position they are in now. Plus the incoherent transfer policy of throwing money at the problem. 

Maybe its time to actually stay with a manager and back him. Look at Moyes tenure at Everton which he lead them from bottom 6 team into the top 8 team and once getting champions league football. In Moyes first full season they finished 17th if my memory is correct

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

I can see the Chelsea fans turning on Potter watching this.

Potter has already been backed by Chelsea owner Bohely. 

Chelsea are going through a transition stage of the club with all key positions within the club changing over the last few months

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

They signed some good players in the summer in Onana, Tarkowski and Coady but some poor ones also

 

I think the biggest issue is the owner changing managers on regular basics with hire and fire policy leading to the position they are in now. Plus the incoherent transfer policy of throwing money at the problem. 

Maybe its time to actually stay with a manager and back him. Look at Moyes tenure at Everton which he lead them from bottom 6 team into the top 8 team and once getting champions league football. In Moyes first full season they finished 17th if my memory is correct

Potter has already been backed by Chelsea owner Bohely. 

Chelsea are going through a transition stage of the club with all key positions within the club changing over the last few months

If stability is what they desire, surely they would opt to first appoint a manager with a good record. Lampard has been at Everton for a while and hasn't improved them on the back of 2 underwhelming previous times at other clubs. I don't get why anyone would desire endless stability under a manager who seemingly isn't particularly good.

[Mattyblue]

They can talk about ‘stability’, ‘transition’, ‘he’ll be given time’, all day long, but keep putting in performances and getting results like this and he’ll be gone soon enough regardless.