Championship - 22-23

[booth]

We'd probably be able to afford a decent striker if we got promoted.

[BRFC4EVA]

9 hours ago, lraC said:

I don't want to sound like I am undermining you here in any way, but would you mind clarifying?

Can you perhaps highlight 5 things that have turned them to rock bottom 6 years ago (your words) to being in the top 10% of current owners?

Not that I'm trying to put words in his mouth, but I think it's more of an indictment of how bad football ownership is in general as opposed to anything particularly good that Venkys have done. 

Kind of similar in a way JDT is like the 8th longest serving manager in the championship (or whatever it is) despite being I'm the job 8 months 

[roversfan99]

I always can only presume that the very bad exceptions that lead to point deductions trick people into thinking that Venkys are good owners. That cannot be the benchmark, avoiding deductions.

In the last 2 seasons, we have allowed 4 big assets to run down their contracts, 2 of whom had bids totalling an 8 figure sum between them that the owners intervened to veto, and another being our captain who is a key part of a side with a great chance of a top 2 spot. We have had a manager that was allowed to run his deal down with no communication as to what was coming next following a spell whereby his performance was seemingly not being judged. Our pitch has become one of the poorest you will see in the football league because they decided to withdraw funding on a planned and necessary revamp. Our ticketing policies continue to show a stadium with I think as low a % of filled seats as you will see in the division, with the CEO again not coming into question. And not for the first time under their ownership, we have been embarassed by the ability to get paperwork signed in time to make a January signing.

[philipl]

19 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

If we did get promoted I’d be happy if the Chicken Chokers took all the money on condition that they pissed off and never darkened our doors again.

No you wouldn't 

Think about it seriously

[philipl]

Picking up 3 threads on here.

Dack - no place for a player averaging better than a goal every 2 games when starting? Not arguing Szmodics isn't in the only place you could fit Dack and that Szmodics hasn't dramatically upped his game but Dack brings something we don't have a lot of- goals

[philipl]

https://www.statista.com/statistics/240912/broadcasting-payments-to-clubs-in-the-english-premier-league/

Last season dingles received £96m for coming rock bottom of the Premier league. 

That doesn't include parachute payments.

Significant new media deals kick in next season.

[philipl]

Venkys 

Quietly subsidising the club up to FFP maximum. every season

Letting management manage

Giving management a long term framework now. They might not make perfect selections of personnel but Swag and Mowbray are dramatic improvements over what went before at Rovers under Venkys and I would put both in the top quartile of Championship management 

Putting a vision of a sustainable Premier League club and sufficient oomph behind it to attract Broughton and JDT

The Category A Academy and the only non PL club in PL2 L1 although we need to up our performance to stay in that league 

We are not alone in having players and management leave at end of contracts.  Judgement calls. Other clubs sell players during promotion pushes and pay huge compensation to fired managers...

Gibson at Boro. Coates at Stoke. Which other current Championship owners do you want? That is where my 90% figure came from.

[Mattyblue]

Swag is in the top quartile? Give me some examples of his top level commercial performance since arriving.

[arbitro]

1 hour ago, philipl said:

Venkys 

Quietly subsidising the club up to FFP maximum. every season

Letting management manage

Giving management a long term framework now. They might not make perfect selections of personnel but Swag and Mowbray are dramatic improvements over what went before at Rovers under Venkys and I would put both in the top quartile of Championship management 

Putting a vision of a sustainable Premier League club and sufficient oomph behind it to attract Broughton and JDT

The Category A Academy and the only non PL club in PL2 L1 although we need to up our performance to stay in that league 

We are not alone in having players and management leave at end of contracts.  Judgement calls. Other clubs sell players during promotion pushes and pay huge compensation to fired managers...

Gibson at Boro. Coates at Stoke. Which other current Championship owners do you want? That is where my 90% figure came from.

Ewood is in a state of disrepair and the pitch is awful, both so because of a lack of investment.

And neither impact on P&S.

And they are subsidising us through their own ineptitude and gross mismanagement.

[Admiral Nelsen]

2 hours ago, philipl said:

Picking up 3 threads on here.

Dack - no place for a player averaging better than a goal every 2 games when starting? Not arguing Szmodics isn't in the only place you could fit Dack and that Szmodics hasn't dramatically upped his game but Dack brings something we don't have a lot of- goals

 

The games coming thick and fast means that all first teamers will be called upon, and if he's available Dack will a hundred percent get his chance to contribute in April.

Szmodics keeps the jersey for now, but there's not a chance that he'll manage 8 games in 20 odd days, especially at the intensity that he usually brings. 

[Upside Down]

On 21/03/2023 at 22:49, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

If we did get promoted I’d be happy if the Chicken Chokers took all the money on condition that they pissed off and never darkened our doors again.

I'll take this option every single day of the week.

[wilsdenrover]

Maybe Venkys truly are in the top 10% of championship owners and Waggott really is in the top 25% of Championship CEOs.

But if that is the case, it’s surely a damning indictment of the running of clubs within this division. 

[MarkBRFC]

I do find it odd that PhilipL has this stance of Venkys and Waggott.

How is Waggott in the top quartile in this league?

Edited March 22, 2023 by MarkBRFC

[ben_the_beast]

On 21/03/2023 at 11:17, Exiled_Rover said:

Did I see that the EFL have handed a 3 point deduction to Wigan this week?

Quick to hand those out, but the Sheffield United case rumbles on - funny that.

My perception is that it reflects badly on the EFL should clubs fall into administration. I'm sure Sheffield United could avoid that next season if they're not promoted but only with a fire sale on players. 

As it stands, they have cheated this year. They've spent money they didn't have and have defaulted on money owed. That in itself should be worthy of a points deduction. As a means of saving face, my feeling is the EFL are pushing the issue as far down the line as possible in the hope Sheffield United are promoted, or have the ability to sell assets in the summer. It's crooked as anything. 

[roversfan99]

7 hours ago, philipl said:

Venkys 

Quietly subsidising the club up to FFP maximum. every season

Letting management manage

Giving management a long term framework now. They might not make perfect selections of personnel but Swag and Mowbray are dramatic improvements over what went before at Rovers under Venkys and I would put both in the top quartile of Championship management 

Putting a vision of a sustainable Premier League club and sufficient oomph behind it to attract Broughton and JDT

The Category A Academy and the only non PL club in PL2 L1 although we need to up our performance to stay in that league 

We are not alone in having players and management leave at end of contracts.  Judgement calls. Other clubs sell players during promotion pushes and pay huge compensation to fired managers...

Gibson at Boro. Coates at Stoke. Which other current Championship owners do you want? That is where my 90% figure came from.

As has been pointed out, if they invest right up to FFP regulations, why did they refuse to invest in the necessary pitch revamp and why is Ewood looking so worn?

Letting management manage is laughable. With both Rothwell and Brereton, they overruled anyone below them on the sale, on at least one of those occasions aggravating the manager at the time in the process! Yes players leave clubs on frees, but that doesn't make it acceptable to lose an eight figure plus total within a year due to incompetence.

Mowbray turned into a decent, at a push good appointment but they seemingly had decided not to bother judging him on results, hence when he finished 15th there was no suggestion of sacking him. And Waggott amongst the top quartile in the league is hilarious, and the comment of someone not in touch with attendances/ticket policies and the general feeling. 

You mention "dramatic improvements over what went before at Rovers under Venkys," that benchmark could not possibly be any lower.

There was one attempt in the last 6 years under these great owners to downscale the academy, but even forgetting that, do they deserve much credit for merely not pulling it down? The academy is not something to credit the owners with.

Regarding other owners, probably only the ones who have seen their clubs deducted points rank lower.

[wilsdenrover]

1 hour ago, MarkBRFC said:

I do find it odd that PhilipL has this stance of Venkys and Waggott.

How is Waggott in the top quartile in this league?

Maybe he drank the tea…

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Mowbray turned into a decent, at a push good appointment but they seemingly had decided not to bother judging him on results, hence when he finished 15th there was no suggestion of sacking him.

They were plenty of suggestions on here that Rovers were thinking of sacking him towards end of the season after a miserable season considering the size of squad we had or the quality forwards we had in Armstrong, Elliott, Gallagher, BBD and Dolan should have reach top 6 for sure 

[wilsdenrover]

21 hours ago, booth said:

We'd probably be able to afford a decent striker if we got promoted.

But would we get the paperwork in on time…

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

They were plenty of suggestions on here that Rovers were thinking of sacking him towards end of the season after a miserable season considering the size of squad we had or the quality forwards we had in Armstrong, Elliott, Gallagher, BBD and Dolan should have reach top 6 for sure 

By suggesting you mean rumours that turned out to be bollocks and he got another season anyway, regardless of how low we finished?

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

By suggesting you mean rumours that turned out to be bollocks and he got another season anyway, regardless of how low we finished?

It all depends the circumstances of what happened and how far it went. Something deffo went on. Too many people had the info at the time

[Upside Down]

20 hours ago, philipl said:

Venkys 

Quietly subsidising the club up to FFP maximum. every season

Letting management manage

Giving management a long term framework now. They might not make perfect selections of personnel but Swag and Mowbray are dramatic improvements over what went before at Rovers under Venkys and I would put both in the top quartile of Championship management 

Putting a vision of a sustainable Premier League club and sufficient oomph behind it to attract Broughton and JDT

The Category A Academy and the only non PL club in PL2 L1 although we need to up our performance to stay in that league 

We are not alone in having players and management leave at end of contracts.  Judgement calls. Other clubs sell players during promotion pushes and pay huge compensation to fired managers...

Gibson at Boro. Coates at Stoke. Which other current Championship owners do you want? That is where my 90% figure came from.

What drugs are you on and can I have some?

[ageoftherover]

I think you could make the case we're a club on the rise and by extension this reflects on an improved performance by the owners. Improvement on "dropping from a stable, mid table prem club to League 1 in half a decade odd" is a very low bar to be jumping from though, and top 10% seems a massive stretch.

[ben_the_beast]

Whether we like it or not, I think we're in a better the devil you know position with Venkys right now. We have an outrageous amount of debt owed to them, which makes any sale very difficult to navigate and comes with a lot of unknowns. 

If we look at their entire tenure it's been horrendous which has all been their fault. The bar couldn't have been set any lower. That low bar has gradually risen. Through luck at first, primarily with Mowbray. He brought about a new problem as they finally saw somebody they could trust and was handed the keys to the kingdom, which is no way to run a professional football club. He was a step up from what came before though. 

Where we are now, is the beginnings of how I'd like to see the club run, but deadline day did highlight there are still incompetent people hanging on in there. Nevertheless this seasons setup is a significant raising of the bar.

The issue we always have with Venkys is we are one decent employee leaving, away from meltdown as there has never been succession planning. If Broughton were to leave I can't see us being swift in filling his void. We're also yet to see if JDT would be bulletproof like Mowbray was and Venkys fluctuating levels of investment are always a worry.

All in all though, if new owners were to come in, this is the type of setup I'd want to see. The learning process has been slow, but there is evidence it has happened and evidence they have slowly worked out how to find competent footballing people who they're willing to trust. It doesn't mean we forget the past and the damage done, but for me they actually represent the option which offers hope of progression with the least amount of risk right now.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

4 minutes ago, ben_the_beast said:

Whether we like it or not, I think we're in a better the devil you know position with Venkys right now. We have an outrageous amount of debt owed to them, which makes any sale very difficult to navigate and comes with a lot of unknowns. 

If we look at their entire tenure it's been horrendous which has all been their fault. The bar couldn't have been set any lower. That low bar has gradually risen. Through luck at first, primarily with Mowbray. He brought about a new problem as they finally saw somebody they could trust and was handed the keys to the kingdom, which is no way to run a professional football club. He was a step up from what came before though. 

Where we are now, is the beginnings of how I'd like to see the club run, but deadline day did highlight there are still incompetent people hanging on in there. Nevertheless this seasons setup is a significant raising of the bar.

The issue we always have with Venkys is we are one decent employee leaving, away from meltdown as there has never been succession planning. If Broughton were to leave I can't see us being swift in filling his void. We're also yet to see if JDT would be bulletproof like Mowbray was and Venkys fluctuating levels of investment are always a worry.

All in all though, if new owners were to come in, this is the type of setup I'd want to see. The learning process has been slow, but there is evidence it has happened and evidence they have slowly worked out how to find competent footballing people who they're willing to trust. It doesn't mean we forget the past and the damage done, but for me they actually represent the option which offers hope of progression with the least amount of risk right now.

Then if JDT were to leave in the close season we’re only a step away from another no mark being appointed and being back to square one.

[Mattyblue]

Football side? Best it’s been in a decade.

Commerical side? As poor as it’s been in a decade.