Sam Szmodics-Your thoughts?

[oldjamfan1]

45 minutes ago, Groundhog said:

I really believe that if Rohl, Harris or Cifuentes came to Ewood they would struggle too - just due to how disjointed our squad is and the lack of attacking options. We don't have the aggression, nor the bodies in midfield to play like those teams ended the season.

Very good post.

 

But does anyone else keep seeing an Australian wrong 'un when they see these two names together??!

[rigger]

24 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

Very good post.

 

But does anyone else keep seeing an Australian wrong 'un when they see these two names together??!

Can you see what it is yet ?

[DE.]

JDT was ultimately a rookie manager and needed to be judged as such. The two flaws being brought up - a lack of Plan B and struggling with man management - are classic problems faced by inexperienced managers. The fact he was able to get us as far as he did in that first season is testament to the strengths of his footballing philosophy when it's working. The fact he was unable to arrest our decline both in the second half of his first season and the final couple of months of his final season is testament to the fact he's still a young manager with plenty to learn.  

I'm sure his experience here will stand him in good stead going forward, and if he can improve on his weaknesses then he's already shown here that his philosophy has the potential for a huge upside if all the pieces are in place and he's properly backed by the club's owners. 

[rigger]

Szmodics states that JDT worked on the theory that pull-backs from a certain area, lead to a certain percentage of goals. From what I saw, it was failed to be explained to our players that those pull-backs had to be to our players, not the defenders. 

[martonrover]

6 hours ago, Hasta said:

The point about footballing abilities is correct, but JDT's coaching records at Malmo and at Rovers already are superior to what JE has achieved as a coach, and he also took Rovers on their closest run to promotion since Venkys took over.

SS was very diplomatic all around in that interview but he clearly believed in what JDT was doing on the pitch. There's little doubting his coaching ability in that area. It was ultimately his man management that let him down and his refusal to change from his footballing beliefs when injuries and fatigue built up. 

It's a very good watch actually. I put it on last night to skim through it and watched the whole lot. Especially liked Big Sam calling the Rovers / Burnley derby "evil". 

JDT did well at Malmo, but that’s hardly an indicator of a successful career in a tougher league.

On the whole, JDT’s full season was good, but we didn’t get in the Play Offs, so I wouldn’t describe it as being near to promotion.

I think the second half of the season slump was a fair warning of what was to come. At the business end of the season we certainly did not have the look of a side heading for promotion.

JDT was let down by the powers that be, but still has to take some responsibility for the predicament he left us in.

You have carefully omitted a mention of JDT’s relegation in Dutch football.

JE’s career is still in it’s formative stages, but he’s shown enough in brief stints at other, equally troubled clubs, together with a successful relegation fight with us, to suggest he has something to offer.

I think Sam Allardyce probably hit the nail on the head when he described JDT as a coach, not a manager.

I think JE is a better fit for us, rather than someone on a puritanical crusade, often at the expense of results.

[Ewood Ace]

8 hours ago, martonrover said:

The results improved enough to keep us in the Division, and that is all that matters.

29 goals conceded in JDT’s last 12 matches. We were hurtling towards League One.

The change in mentality discussed in the podcast was from “victims to fighters”, not about liking the new head coach.

With regards  to the playing careers of JDT and Eustace, that has got b*gger all to do with their abilities as head coaches / managers.

A good player with pedigree does not necessarily make a good manager (they very often don’t), and an average player can still be a very good manager, (countless examples).

Eustace is a pragmatist, as Big Sam said, and he opted for safety first. We didn’t lose any of those games, and Millwall and Plymouth were also fighting hard against relegation.

It wasn’t pretty, but it was effective. That’s why Birmingham and Huddersfield fans would love to swap places with us.

You'd never think reading this that we ended up closer to relegation in terms of points and position than we were when JDT left the club. You'd think we were cut adrift in the bottom 3, changed manager then went on a great run and stayed up a la Danny Rohl and Sheffield Wednesday. When in reality we won 3 games in 16 including none at home and scored on average less than a goal a game. Also Eustace's points per game this season was worse than JDT's.

Edited May 10 by Ewood Ace

[martonrover]

7 hours ago, K-Hod said:

Talk about cherry picking stats, Jesus.

JDT never had us as close to relegation as his successor, though I accept, people have absolved JE of the blame for that somehow.

I dispute that it’s cherry picking stats.

We were losing heavily on a regular basis and the direction of travel was one way only.

The worst defensive record in the league.

In my opinion, the only reason JDT never had us as close to relegation was because he was removed, (probably in the nick of time).

He was doing the same things week in week out, with the same results, (either insanity or stubbornness).

I accept that others have a different opinion, but mine is that Eustace did very well to help maintain our Championship status.

He walked in to an absolute mess, on and off the pitch, and instilled a fighting spirit into a squad of players which had previously appeared to be waving the white flag.

We needed a pragmatist and we got one. 
Yes, we slipped a little further, but the straight down trajectory was arrested, and that was crucial.
 

[Ewood Ace]

14 minutes ago, martonrover said:

JDT did well at Malmo, but that’s hardly an indicator of a successful career in a tougher league.

On the whole, JDT’s full season was good, but we didn’t get in the Play Offs, so I wouldn’t describe it as being near to promotion.

I think the second half of the season slump was a fair warning of what was to come. At the business end of the season we certainly did not have the look of a side heading for promotion.

JDT was let down by the powers that be, but still has to take some responsibility for the predicament he left us in.

You have carefully omitted a mention of JDT’s relegation in Dutch football.

JE’s career is still in it’s formative stages, but he’s shown enough in brief stints at other, equally troubled clubs, together with a successful relegation fight with us, to suggest he has something to offer.

I think Sam Allardyce probably hit the nail on the head when he described JDT as a coach, not a manager.

I think JE is a better fit for us, rather than someone on a puritanical crusade, often at the expense of results.

Our new Messiah couldn't even get Kidderminster out of the 6th tier when he had one of the few full time teams in the league. He lost in the play offs at the first hurdle both times firstly to the might of part time Chorley and then to the might of part time Bradford Park Avenue.

[martonrover]

9 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

You'd never think reading this that we ended up closer to relegation in terms of points and position that we were when JDT left the club. You'd think we were cut adrift in the bottom 3, changed manager then went on a great run and stayed up a la Danny Rohl and Sheffield Wednesday. When in reality we won 3 games in 16 including none at home and scored on average less than a goal a game. Also Eustace's points per game this season was worse than JDT's.

I’m basing my opinion on the sequence of results and performances (hopeless) leading up to JDT leaving.

Rohl has done a great job, but was appointed in October, so had much more time to turn around Wednesday’s fortunes.

[martonrover]

2 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Our new Messiah couldn't even get Kidderminster out of the 6th tier when he had one of the few full time teams in the league. He lost in the play offs at the first hurdle both times firstly to the might of part time Chorley and then to the might of part time Bradford Park Avenue.

I certainly haven’t described Eustace as a “Messiah”.

He has a lot of work to do next season, and probably in difficult circumstances once again.

I’m crediting him for a job well done in retaining Championship status.

[Ewood Ace]

6 hours ago, Groundhog said:

Fans bemoan the games at home we drew - take Coventry, if Sammie puts that sitter away we've won, JE can't control that, neither can he control Hyam's disaster at Bristol and Aynsley's against SW. If I had one main issue with JE is that he's made us too relaxed, perhaps a result of trying to take the pressure off too much, but he's dealing with a squad devoid of any confidence.

But that is part of football. You could easily flip that and talk about if Leeds had finished one of their multiple chances or if Vardy had scored when Carter headed it back to him.

6 hours ago, Groundhog said:

I also don't think Eustace has less demanding standards due to where he played, look at someone like Mourinho - I think he walked into the dressing room saw a completely destroyed team with no clear direction, I think he got a sense of something not being right just by the "vibes" in the room, and quickly got something together to try and get some points.

Look at the clubs Mourinho worked at and the managers he worked for. The biggest club this bloke has ever worked at before is Watford in the 2nd tier and the most time he has spent at a club in management is at Kidderminster Harriers in the 6th tier.

6 hours ago, Groundhog said:

The jury is still out but I've got confidence him, forget what he says in the press- he's not being media managed and his post-match stuff for Brum wasn't any different, some are good at it some aren't, who cares.

He's very media managed repeating the same things all the time and towing the party line.

6 hours ago, Groundhog said:

People can compare records on paper all day but the slide under JDT before he left was horrendous, no stats can accurately convey exactly what was going on in real life at that point.

Yet the fact remains we slide even further under Eustace.

[Adam C]

11 minutes ago, martonrover said:

I certainly haven’t described Eustace as a “Messiah”.

He has a lot of work to do next season, and probably in difficult circumstances once again.

I’m crediting him for a job well done in retaining Championship status.

Fair point. We were definitely in free fall under JDT, results and performances were grim. I’ve not been impressed with the football under JE, but he was dealt a poor hand and he still achieved what we all hoped for.

We were relegated in similar circumstances under Mowbray and with time he made us into a competitive side, so I’ll give Eustace a chance for next season. Fingers crossed he’s backed in the same way Mowbray was and he can get us further up the league next year. 

Edited May 10 by Adam C
Too many cider in the sun = dodgy grammar

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

4 hours ago, rigger said:

Szmodics states that JDT worked on the theory that pull-backs from a certain area, lead to a certain percentage of goals. From what I saw, it was failed to be explained to our players that those pull-backs had to be to our players, not the defenders. 

He was dead right about the “ pull backs “ but you need somebody on the end of them. Preferably not Gally.

Edited May 10 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Atko's Engine]

On 05/05/2024 at 09:38, DE. said:

Taking a look at the Championship golden boot winners and where their teams finished over the past ten years...

23/24 - Sammie Szmodics (Rovers) - 27 goals - 19th
22/23 - Chuba Akpom (Boro) - 28 goals - 4th
21/22 - Aleksandar Mitrovic (Fulham) - 43 goals - 1st
20/21 - Ivan Toney (Brentford) - 30 goals - 3rd
19/20 - Aleksandar Mitrovic (Fulham) - 26 goals -4th
18/19 - Teemu Pukki (Norwich) - 29 goals - 1st
17/18 - Matěj Vydra (Derby) - 21 goals - 6th
16/17 - Chris Wood (Leeds) - 27 goals - 7th
15/16 - Andre Gray (Burnley (23 goals) / Brentford (2 goals)) - 25 goals - 1st
14/15 - Daryl Murphy (Ipswich) - 27 goals - 6th

So yeah, what can you say? Only in Venkyworld do you have the league's top scorer and not even come close to getting into the top six, but actually end up battling relegation until the last day of the season. 

Also, note they were all strikers / forwards, and his many of those goals were penalties.

[bluebruce]

5 hours ago, rigger said:

Szmodics states that JDT worked on the theory that pull-backs from a certain area, lead to a certain percentage of goals. From what I saw, it was failed to be explained to our players that those pull-backs had to be to our players, not the defenders. 

What are pull-backs? Apart from another addition to the ever-expanding football lexicon.

[Mattyblue]

A cross from the byline?

[RTM08]

I think Sammie came across very well and managed to navigate some tricky questions well without dismissing them. 

As others have said, it's clear that JDT (and it sounds by extension other EU coaches) had high standards and expected the players to want to push to be the best they can. Some rose to meet this whereas other perhaps more limited players clearly threw the dummy out. Eustace can come in and play the PE teacher "everyone can do it" role which suits a club with zero ambition or standards. 

Sammie clearly wants to leave and has earned it. The fact that he and Adam Wharton will be sacrificed to "save the club" is worrying, because it is at best a stay of execution. What are we supposed to do when we don't have another £20m player to flog (i.e. next season)? 

[RTM08]

14 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

A cross from the byline?

Pretty much, we scored a lot of goals under JDT with someone cutting back to someone moving across or arriving late into the box, so that fits if it was his philosophy. 

[bluebruce]

8 hours ago, Groundhog said:

Fans bemoan the games at home we drew - take Coventry, if Sammie puts that sitter away we've won, JE can't control that, neither can he control Hyam's disaster at Bristol and Aynsley's against SW.

 

He's the one that chose to keep him on for the second half when he had been abysmal though, with predictable results.

[bluebruce]

18 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

A cross from the byline?

Aye I figured that's what's meant when I read Tyrone''s post about it and realised I've heard it before. Think I was thrown by the context, especially mentioning opposition defenders doing them.

[bluebruce]

1 hour ago, Adam C said:

We were relegated in similar circumstances under Mowbray and with time he made us into a competitive side, so I’ll give Eustace a chance for next season. Fingers crossed he’s backed in the same way Mowbray was and he can get us further up the league next year. 

The notion that we've undergone all this change and come close to the playoffs after we finally got shut of Mowbray, just to end up with another Mowbray-like manager, kills my soul. And tbh, currently I don't even think he'll be as good as Mowbray was.

[RTM08]

1 minute ago, bluebruce said:

The notion that we've undergone all this change and come close to the playoffs after we finally got shut of Mowbray, just to end up with another Mowbray-like manager, kills my soul. And tbh, currently I don't even think he'll be as good as Mowbray was.

I'm not one to defend him, but Tony got significant backing at times. I can't see Eustace getting the same so perhaps harsh to hold him to the same standard.

[chaddyrovers]

12 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

What’s Eustsce’s ‘plan b’ then?

Its was 5-2-3. I think his plan A is 4-2-3-1 formation when he has the right attacking players available 

10 hours ago, martonrover said:

 

Eustace is a pragmatist, as Big Sam said, and he opted for safety first. We didn’t lose any of those games, and Millwall and Plymouth were also fighting hard against relegation.

correct

9 hours ago, K-Hod said:

Talk about cherry picking stats, Jesus.

JDT never had us as close to relegation as his successor, though I accept, people have absolved JE of the blame for that somehow.

Eustace got us back to basics and we got 5 clean sheets in our last 9 games. Yes the football wasn't a great one but he got us points on the board 

8 hours ago, Hasta said:

I spent almost all of JDT's reign saying he was stubborn and had no Plan B and you denied it. Now Szmods says it suddenly it confirms it. 

Cos Szmodics was in the room and like Big Sam its the way a modern coach is sticking to Plan A 

[Mattyblue]

Going three at the back for a load of games is a ‘plan b’ now. I thought that was just JE trying to grind his way to survival (which was fair enough BTW) not a sign of a tactical guru, but there you go.

[Hasta]

3 hours ago, martonrover said:

JDT did well at Malmo, but that’s hardly an indicator of a successful career in a tougher league.

On the whole, JDT’s full season was good, but we didn’t get in the Play Offs, so I wouldn’t describe it as being near to promotion.

I think the second half of the season slump was a fair warning of what was to come. At the business end of the season we certainly did not have the look of a side heading for promotion.

JDT was let down by the powers that be, but still has to take some responsibility for the predicament he left us in.

You have carefully omitted a mention of JDT’s relegation in Dutch football.

JE’s career is still in it’s formative stages, but he’s shown enough in brief stints at other, equally troubled clubs, together with a successful relegation fight with us, to suggest he has something to offer.

I think Sam Allardyce probably hit the nail on the head when he described JDT as a coach, not a manager.

I think JE is a better fit for us, rather than someone on a puritanical crusade, often at the expense of results.

Dont get me wrong I'm not coming from this as a JE hater. I said if he keeps us up lets see what next year brings  with him and thats still where I am. Nor do I think it wasnt time for JDT to go. The dressing room had clearly been lost.

But my general opinion is once we had players returning from injury we would have picked up a little bit under JDT. With Dolan, Gallagher, Hyam, JRC and Pears back, plus we had added McFadz and Chrisene, I dont buy in to we were definitely going down. I genuinely believe he would have achieved the points total Eustace did albeit he wouldnt be performing at the PPG level of the rest of his Rovers spell. But I do think his time had run.

Eustace has come in and achieved the points total to keep us up. There were a lot of holes to be picked in the performances to do that, but now he can bring players in to really suit how he wants to play so from next season we will see if his own identity can come through and achieve more than a full-on relegation battle.

It's just knowing what I know now, if I was a championship side with a good level of ability in my players gearing for a proper promotion push I would rather have JDT than Eustace. If I had a limited squad who needed motivation and togetherness to outperform their ability then I'd rather have Eustace. Rovers sit in the middle but slightly towards the latter of those two scenarios, hence the constant bickering by people for and against the two managers.

 

Edited May 10 by Hasta