v Wigan Athletic (a) 11/10/2022

[RevidgeBlue]

24 minutes ago, Crozzy said:

My biggest issue with JDT possibly not liking Dacks fitness/press is that there’s no press at the moment anyway

Yes, I'm still waiting to see evidence of this high tempo pressing game supposedly favoured by the manager as well.

[Iceman]

How is Georgie Hirst doing? 

[G Somerset Rover]

57 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

He must see now that his obsession with passing game ideology, especially away from home, doesn't work in the Championship because we don't have the players to do it and it's a tough league full of gritty, hard-working teams and managers who will soon find you out.

He's clearly not an idiot, so I can only assume he/Broughton have committed to the owners that this is our style of play, this is how we'll increase 'value in the squad' and despite the many bumps in the road, this is how we'll continue. 100% wrong IMO, but there's got to be more to this than just JDT being stubborn.

The only thing that flies in the face of this though is not playing our own players over loanees (the likes of Vale/Markanday over the awful Hirst, Wharton over Morton, Phillips over an ageing/injury prone Ayala etc.). 

Edited October 12, 2022 by Gavlar Somerset Rover!

[Mattyblue]

How does passing the ball around in a laboured fashion ‘improve the value of the squad’?

Is ‘data analysis’ honestly being interpreted in such a basic way that having a ‘90% pass completion rate’ or whatever, even if it’s largely ineffectual passing in your own half, is somehow ‘increasing value’ of players?! 

[Guest]

I see Rich Sharpe and Andy Bayes are still yet to press JDT for answers on these lackluster performances. 

It's all 'could you have been better?'

Not, 'you had 0.1 xG tonight, is that acceptable?'

Or 'Why is the top scorer at the club sat on the bench until the 84th minute every single week?'

Or 'what the fuck is Ryan Hedges doing at fucking right back?'

Sharpe was same with Mowbray though to be fair, literally not asked one thought-inducing question in his entire time reporting at the Lancs Telegraph . Nothing reporter.

[tomphil]

40 minutes ago, starscascade said:

I would like to know how much money I’ve spent over the years watching Wigan beat us? And how much I’ve spent on travel to do it

They didn't need to be bully boys at all last night though that is the hardest bit to swallow.

[arealbrfcfan]

5 minutes ago, tomphil said:

They didn't need to be bully boys at all last night though that is the hardest bit to swallow.

They didn’t have to do much at all, Wigan were terrible too. I think even a league two team would have beaten us last night. 

[MarkBRFC]

9 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

I see Rich Sharpe and Andy Bayes are still yet to press JDT for answers on these lackluster performances. 

It's all 'could you have been better?'

Not, 'you had 0.1 xG tonight, is that acceptable?'

Or 'Why is the top scorer at the club sat on the bench until the 84th minute every single week?'

Or 'what the fuck is Ryan Hedges doing at fucking right back?'

Sharpe was same with Mowbray though to be fair, literally not asked one thought-inducing question in his entire time reporting at the Lancs Telegraph . Nothing reporter.

To be fair if I was a manager and the person interviewing me asked that, I'd walk off.

[tomphil]

3 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

How does passing the ball around in a laboured fashion ‘improve the value of the squad’?

Is ‘data analysis’ honestly being interpreted in such a basic way that having a ‘90% pass completion rate’ or whatever, even if it’s largely ineffectual passing in your own half, is somehow ‘increasing value’ of players?! 

Alongside starting loan players in front of your own which also goes against the increasing squad value theory. 

Why such an emphasis at this club on developing players first and foremost, then losing them for nothing. When BBD leaves that will be 4 gone and circa 7 million in the minus section of that particular journey.  Only balanced out by a similar amount combined from the Armstrong profit and Raya jumping ship.

The only real way for a club like this to reset the books and take a step towards becoming a stable Prem club is to go for it and get there in the first place. Then when the inevitable happens after one season reinvest the parachute money wisely and keep the wages in line with that extra income.

Otherwise anything else is just pure water treading and we aren't even a sustainable Championship club really yet. That surely has to be the first aim before we can even think about the rest.

What a chance was blown last season.

[Rogerb]

The style of play is to knock it around at the back until the diagonal wide striker is in space and then play the diagonal. If the pass is successful move up field to support the wide striker in possession and then look to play a ball inside the full back. It's completely one dimensional and prone to breakdown with misplaced passes consequently there is no end product. Without a focal point to the attack who can retain the ball to bring others into play the ball will continue to be turned over. Until JDT grasps this we can expect many more performances like Wigan away.

It seems JDT has been on the same coaching courses as Tony Mowbray.

Which would you prefer Sam's percentage football or JDT's one dimensional tripe?

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, benhben said:

Starting to think JDT is going to become a Henning Berg type appointment. Young coach with some big ideas of total football that sound good, but ultimately don't work in England or they haven't got the ability to coach it into the players. 

Hope I'm wrong but starting to become less and less optimistic. 

Shame as I think the Championship is weak this year and a manager with a bit of nous and the backing JDT had in the transfer window would have us right up there. 

 

Funnily enough i was talking about just the same thing with someone last night. 

It's what i feared might happen after he had success in a lesser league with one of its biggest best backed clubs. I remember some of Bergs early games being very neat quick football but we ran out of steam very quickly once teams starting jumping on us first.  He also wasn't afraid to throw raw players in but began suffering similar cock ups costing games although to be fair to him he had zero backing whilst he was here.

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

To be fair if I was a manager and the person interviewing me asked that, I'd walk off.

And that in itself will say all we need to know.

[AllRoverAsia]

1 hour ago, RV Blue said:

Oh no, having a Dad as an ex pro footballer is much simpler than the formula for getting a shag.

[MarkBRFC]

17 minutes ago, Mellor Rover said:

And that in itself will say all we need to know.

Yep. Don't tolerate ridiculous questions.

The other ones are more than valid though. 

Feel like we're in Mowbray territory again where we play everyone apart from the best RB at the club at right back, 

[Herbie6590]

Still time to vote for your MOTM…I know…I know…🤨

https://www.brfcs.com/magazine/football/match/880826/wigan-blackburn?tab=voting

[BlackburnEnd75]

Some thoughts:

We aren't playing how JDT layed out at the start of the season

We didn't play with any noticeable style yesterday at all. 

No balance between midfield and defence. 

If we are in fact trying to play short passing through the middle then we might need Wharton in for Travis.

I gave Mowbray pelters for continually playing gally on the wing. JDT continues to play gally there and worse he played hirst there who is even less suitable

Mortons last two games have highlighted the benefits and drawbacks of taking a prime Premier league youngster

Szmodics to me seems like the attacking midfield version of Jordan Rhodes, can't do anything until he gets the ball around the box, doesn't pass the eye test.

We play narrow which must contribute to the ponderous play at the back. When BBD pulled wide towards the end he opened that channel up between rb and cb.

If we can sell Brereton in January then the team will be in big trouble.

I won't pay money to watch us away from home again for a while.

[Herbie6590]

4 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

George and David Hirst, Nigel Pearson, Remy Reijnierse. Connection: Sheffield Wednesday

OH Leuven, managed by Pearson, and Leicester City. Connection: Pearson and both clubs owned by King Power.

Hirst is not looking good and not a kid in footballing terms.

I had look at his career path and influences on it. A dot joining exercise.

What possessed Leicester to move him from Belgium only King Power can answer.

If we pay any sort of fee for this 4th rate Ashley Ward then frankly, something is amiss.

 

The story is Wednesday wanted to keep him (dad connection & belief in his potential). Allegedly Hirst was tapped up to let his contract run down. He then signed for Leicester’s Belgian feeder club so no compensation was payable to Wednesday which went down really well with them as you can imagine. 
He then moved to the parent on a free & Leicester are clearly now trying to reap some return on their investment which, all things being equal, should rightfully have gone to Wednesday…
 

[AllRoverAsia]

3 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

The story is Wednesday wanted to keep him (dad connection & belief in his potential). Allegedly Hirst was tapped up to let his contract run down. He then signed for Leicester’s Belgian feeder club so no compensation was payable to Wednesday which went down really well with them as you can imagine. 
He then moved to the parent on a free & Leicester are clearly now trying to reap some return on their investment which, all things being equal, should rightfully have gone to Wednesday…
 

Hopefully not at our expense.

[Herbie6590]

4 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Hopefully not at our expense.

I struggle to see how we’d justify a fee for him based on performances to date & with a new recruitment structure in situ you hope that it’s what he does on the field that determines that as opposed to any other “influences”…

[roversfan99]

Absolutely shocking, embarrassing performance again last night yet again, nothing to cling onto.

These stupid tactics of playing it out from the back (we were more direct on Saturday) again lead to numerous ch

Hirst is absolute crap, a useless lump, Morton (foul or no foul, he shouldn't run towards his own net like that) and Szmodics was crap, an outrage how Dack can be left on the sidelines with players like that ahead of him. Travis, Scott Wharton and Hedges all had shockers too.

Or an alternative outlook is to ignore the various constructive questions regarding the questionable tactics, questionable selections, questionable signings etc and just put your fingers in your ears and repeat "its all part of the journey, time and patience."

[booth]

I was willing to cut JDT some slack when he had injuries but now with a full squad he should be doing better against a poor Wigan side who up till last night couldn't win at home.

Hirst - why?

No Dack - why?

Taking Hedges off then putting Gallagher on the right - why?

1-0 down and no urgency - why?

Constantly pissing about with the ball around our own box - F*** right off!

And Broughton, if you were chasing Hirst all Summer as our main CF, you can too.

[roversfan99]

Imagine what the other targets on the list were like if Hirst and Szmodics were number 1 choice for each positon!

[jim mk2]

I didn't realise George Hirst is the son of former Sheffield Wednesday striker David Hirst. All I can say is he's not good enough to lace his dad's boots

David Hirst was an absolutely top-notch striker in the days when Wednesday had a very fine team. He had pace, height, heading ability, strength and dribbling and finishing skills and but for injuries would have won far more many England caps.

He was better than Lineker IMO and would be an automatic pick for England today

 

[had.e.nuff]

2 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

Still time to vote for your MOTM…I know…I know…🤨

https://www.brfcs.com/magazine/football/match/880826/wigan-blackburn?tab=voting

is it not a rollover

[booth]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Imagine what the other targets on the list were like if Hirst and Szmodics were number 1 choice for each positon!

When they signed Hirst I put it down to bringing him in as a cheap squad player who had done a decent job at a lower level. We were light in most areas so it seemed reasonable. To have him as our main striker target is moronic.

I fully expected them to finally bring in a more established CF as well as Hirst, I forgot we have to massively lower our expectations of the club year after year.

Edited October 12, 2022 by booth