v Luton Town (a) - 17/9/22

[Atko's Engine]

If JDT is going to insist on a style of play that relies on high press, 1 and 2 touch passing & a possession game that is proactive, he's not going to be able to do that in the Championship in 10 games. This season is playing out no differently than he warned us it would when he took the job; a project, ups & downs, bumps in the road.

I'd say that 5 wins & 5 defeats epitomises that, so I don't really see why folk are getting so het up & frustrated at this early stage! We've had some tough games (away at the leaders, away at the Reading (now in 3rd), home to QPR (now in 6th), home to Watford & W Brom, home Bristol City in 9th, away at Luton who finished 6th last year & where we've NEVER won.

Am I frustrated by today? Of course, but let's keep things in perspective and allow a whole new backroom set-up time to bed in. 

[Gav]

5 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

Absolute tripe. Good managers get results quickly with players they inherit.

 

You put forward Kompany as an example, who has spent £20m, I need say no more…….

Tripe.

Edited September 17, 2022 by Gav

[Sweaty Gussets]

1 minute ago, islander200 said:

Kompany had many more millions and and players brought in asap.Plus after coming from the premier League they already had players better than ours. 

 

That's not the discussion. The post I responded to was about the manger needing time to implement his ideas/style of play as there had been a turnover of players and a new manger (these are the excuses made for JDT) I just made the obvious comparison with a manager who has had an even bigger turnover of players and who has also had to completely change the style of play. 

In the same timeframe we don't even appear to have even established a recognisable style. 

[islander200]

6 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

Absolute tripe. Good managers get results quickly with players they inherit.

 

Burnley have 2 more points than us ,and we are 5 points off second place.

Not saying some of his decisions have been questionable but he it needs time before he can be labelled either way.Pre Blackpool you were comparing him with Appleton and then we went out and schooled Appleton's side that night.

His situation is not comparable with what Kompany has to work with at Burnley 

[Exiled_Rover]

9 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

He came in the same week as Kompany. Kompany has got his ideas across very quickly...and he lost far more players. He also completely changed their style. 

I think you need to stop making excuses for a manager who doesn't seem to know how to get the best out of his players, and doesn't even seem to have a style of play. 

Kompany has spent north of £20m, bringing in 14+ players and been completely allowed to revamp the team. 

It's not comparable at all. They're also only a couple of points ahead of us after all that. 

[Upside Down]

I think people are upset because we haven't just lost games, we've been totally bummed by teams we should have the potential to beat.

[Sweaty Gussets]

1 minute ago, Gav said:

You put forward Kompany, who has spent £20m, I need say no more…….

You misunderstood the discussion. I need say no more....

[Sweaty Gussets]

1 minute ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Kompany has spent north of £20m, bringing in 14+ players and been completely allowed to revamp the team. 

It's not comparable at all. They're also only a couple of points ahead of us after all that. 

It's about style pf play. Please read the full discussion from the start before responding. It's tedious having to point it out. 

[Sweaty Gussets]

5 minutes ago, Gav said:

You put forward Kompany as an example, who has spent £20m, I need say no more…….

Tripe.

Yeah, you've already said that. It was irrelevant tripe the first time. 

[Sweaty Gussets]

8 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

If JDT is going to insist on a style of play that relies on high press, 1 and 2 touch passing & a possession game that is proactive, he's not going to be able to do that in the Championship in 10 games. This season is playing out no differently than he warned us it would when he took the job; a project, ups & downs, bumps in the road.

A good manager can implement those ideas quickly. That's the point you're missing. 

 

[Gav]

4 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

You misunderstood the discussion. I need say no more....

Me and everyone else clearly…..

You've been slagging off JDT since the first few games of the season. Anyone who understands football will tell you the guy needs time, the players need time, simple really. 

[Atko's Engine]

9 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

He came in the same week as Kompany. Kompany has got his ideas across very quickly...and he lost far more players. He also completely changed their style. 

I think you need to stop making excuses for a manager who doesn't seem to know how to get the best out of his players, and doesn't even seem to have a style of play. 

Kompany has had far more money to spend than we have to replace those players lost,  and he came down with a squad full of Prem experience.

They're only 2 points ahead of us.

I'm not making excuses, I'm pointing out facts. Answer me this  would you or would you not have taken 7th place after 10 games when we kicked off in July?

Such a short term outlook that you & some others display is part of what's wrong with modern football. It takes time to make changes, and that's just what he and Gregg told us on their arrival, so why some folk are expecting more than what we have at this stage is hard to fathom.

 

[arbitro]

4 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

I think people are upset because we haven't just lost games, we've been totally bummed by teams we should have the potential to beat.

In a nutshell. If today was a one-off I'd accept it but the manner of defeat in every loss so far has had striking similarities against teams who all play a similar style. In my view Tomasson hasn't come up with a plan to play and get a result against these type of teams. That's not to say I'm writing him off but he certainly isn't above criticism.

[rovers11]

19 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

I'm not happy with 7th place. We should have gotten some points out of the games we lost.

We've been battered in all but one of the games we've lost. 

[Sweaty Gussets]

1 minute ago, Atko's Engine said:

Kompany has had far more money to spend than we have to replace those players lost,  and he came down with a squad full of Prem experience.

They're only 2 points ahead of us.

I'm not making excuses, I'm pointing out facts. Answer me this  would you or would you not have taken 7th place after 10 games when we kicked off in July?

Such a short term outlook that you & some others display is part of what's wrong with modern football. It takes time to make changes, and that's just what he and Gregg told us on their arrival, so why some folk are expecting more than what we have at this stage is hard to fathom.

 

You need to read back the discussion we have had. You've got lost along the way and forgotten the post of yours I responded to. 

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

A good manager can implement those ideas quickly. That's the point you're missing. 

 

And there are minimal signs of that sort of style assumed too, on the pitch.

[islander200]

12 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

Absolute tripe. Good managers get results quickly with players they inherit.

 

He hasnt even had a fully fit squad to choose from this season .

Kompany has multi million pound players on the bench whilst JDT had to put a 17 year old at centre half.

Talk all summer he wanted two centre backs as soon as fitness and signings(which I'm sure he wanted to happen as quickly as we did) made we switched to 3 at the back.

Of course it is simpler and quicker to implement your style if you have better tools and at the end of the day we are 2 points behind them and  they haven't played brilliantly in every game either.

7th place and 15 points and a few decent performances within that is a good start if we are talking results 

If 3 at the back is how he wants to play it going forward and it was only personal stopping him then he has only had that option available to him a couple of games through no fault of his own .

He has done some things iv been baffled with but still il give him a bit before I call him either way 

[Sweaty Gussets]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

And there are minimal signs of that sort of style assumed too, on the pitch.

Hallelujah. It's not even a particularly contentious point either. It's blatantly obvious to anyone who watches us. But apparently he needs even more time to implement the style of play he keeps banging on about, even though other managers achieve similar in far shorter time periods. 

[Sweaty Gussets]

2 minutes ago, islander200 said:

He hasnt even had a fully fit squad to choose from this season .

Kompany has multi million pound players on the bench whilst JDT had to put a 17 year old at centre half.

Talk all summer he wanted two centre backs as soon as fitness and signings(which I'm sure he wanted to happen as quickly as we did) made we switched to 3 at the back.

Of course it is simpler and quicker to implement your style if you have better tools and at the end of the day we are 2 points behind them and  they haven't played brilliantly in every game either.

7th place and 15 points and a few decent performances within that is a good start if we are talking results 

If 3 at the back is how he wants to play it going forward and it was only personal stopping him then he has only had that option available to him a couple of games through no fault of his own .

He has done some things iv been baffled with but still il give him a bit before I call him either way 

Managers with less money can develop a recognisable style quickly. The lower league show you that. 

JDT isn't re-inventing the wheel FFS. 

And I haven't written him off, just sharing my own views on him at this stage. 

[Upside Down]

10 minutes ago, rovers11 said:

We've been battered in all but one of the games we've lost. 

Exactly, it's not good enough. 

[Sweaty Gussets]

16 minutes ago, arbitro said:

In a nutshell. If today was a one-off I'd accept it but the manner of defeat in every loss so far has had striking similarities against teams who all play a similar style. In my view Tomasson hasn't come up with a plan to play and get a result against these type of teams. That's not to say I'm writing him off but he certainly isn't above criticism.

Yep, it's a fairly obvious point you're making. I've made the same. For some reason it's controversial 🤷‍♂️

 

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Sweaty Gussets

[Blue blood]

I think boom and bust sums us up pretty well. We are either excellent or absymal which suggests we are a bit of a one trick pony. A clever trick mind as when it works, it works, but one a fair few teams seem to be able to outwit. 

I'll say this. On one hand boom and bust means that there's more busts and negatives than win draw loss which may make fans have a more negative opinion. (And admittedly more negative experiences!) But there are more booms and W L gives more points than W D L. And is it really worse than the positive and negative streaks we had under TM? Certainly strikes me as no more inconsistent albeit the hammerings on a regular basis may leave fans more jaded. 

For what it's worth my view is he got a pretty crap hand. 3 years plus of TMs transfer issues coming home to roost leaving a very depleted squad. Getting transfers in also seemed to take a fair while. Yes the signs are all far from positive but not having TM in the dugout is a plus. Add in that some of the errors are things he has to learn as he had a clean slate for everyone and we'll, because he was new! We knew JRC isn't a full back but he had to discover that for himself, for example. 

If the same mistakes keep being made a few months down the line then there is cause for concern but at this stage severe inconsistency isn't a worry. It's standard Rovers and given the situation he was dealt is probably as good as we could hope for. If we don't develop though, if he doesn't learn from his mistakes, if players don't bed in, there's more of a debate to be had. But as it is at this stage I'm not dissatisfied. 

[BG1492]

People moaned how dinosaur Tony never took us anywhere in 5 years. But are now expecting JDT to sort the mess out in 5 months.

Give the bloke time, look where Farke finished with Norwich in his first season.

”Good managers get good results now” see Chris Wilder that everyone was shouting for in February..

[Ghost7]

Strange season so far, we're getting some fairly unlikely results and at the same time losing against teams where we have the better players. That does point towards the manager and staff getting things wrong for me and we are arguably higher than we should be given the performances. The main issue I have so far is the manner of our defeats...

[bigbrandjohn]

1 hour ago, davulsukur said:

JDT seems to be hanging his hat on the break in November. Following that he seems to believe we will be a much more consistent team.

It's always a risk sticking a timeframe on something like that.

In any case I think the starting 11 needs some work, across a transfer window or 2 before we will start to stamp out these old habits.

It's going to be a frustrating season.

Get on the training pitch in November. Sounds like another journey to me.