v Luton Town (a) - 17/9/22

[booth]

19 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

Good to see you don't report people for engaging in genuine discussion. It's also refreshing to engage with someone who is capable of a discussion, rather than making it personal....and then running to the teacher like children.  I feel a bromance coming on💗

Anyway, we'll agree to disagree.  He's had more than enough time IMO to implement his own style (see Kompany and many other managers down the ages) - fast intense attacking football with a 'fluid' front four is how JDT advertised it. There's been very little evidence of that. Maybe it will come in time.

BTW, when is the expiry date on the 'not had enough time to implement his ideas/style of play' excuse?? 

When he's got a decent squad with the players capable of being a fluid front four?

If anyone thinks that regularly having Dolan or Hirst as the foremost attacking player is the answer they are in for a world of disappointment.

Maybe JDT is to blame for some of this, but I find it difficult to judge him with what he's inherited, injuries, and the clubs backwards dealings in the transfer window.

Waggot and Broughton have to shoulder some of the blame for not recruiting sensibly. To go into another half season (after seeing what happened post January) without a good centre forward is bizarre.

[Sweaty Gussets]

1 minute ago, booth said:

When he's got a decent squad with the players capable of being a fluid front four?

If anyone thinks that regularly having Dolan or Hirst as the foremost attacking player is the answer they are in for a world of disappointment.

Maybe JDT is to blame for some of this, but I find it difficult to judge him with what he's inherited, injuries, and the clubs backwards dealings in the transfer window.

Waggot and Broughton have to shoulder some of the blame for not recruiting sensibly. To go into another half season (after seeing what happened post January) without a good centre forward is bizarre.

JDT said Hirst was his first choice 

[joey_big_nose]

2 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

I do believe that even Mowbray would have brought Dack.

The current one struggles with logic.

I've noticed with JDT that he doesn't respond that quickly. Took a while to switch to three at the back, then didn't change things at all yesterday when we were getting mullered in the middle.

I think he's come in with this 4231 "dynamic front four" philosophy, and planned for that, bur it's got trashed in any game against a back three and he is now struggling to figure out what he wants.

As Mike Tyson famously said "everyone's got a plan till they get punched in the face".

Reckon he will get there though over the next few games. We're not far off. Just need to play an extra man in midfield in the right situations.

[booth]

Just now, Sweaty Gussets said:

JDT said Hirst was his first choice 

Broughton said that, not JDT.

There's no way that George Hirst, a 23 year old loanee without a goal to his name in the Championship was JDT's first choice.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

21 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

Same as BCFC at home. The stat that we've lost every game this season where we've fallen behind is further evidence that there is no plan B. 

It’s not just this season, it’s been going on for ages. If I was  an opposing manager I’d be telling my team. “ Score first and it’s game over with these “.

[joey_big_nose]

I think Hirst has been brought in as a different type of player, one to win in the air as well as run the channels  In his stint second half  he won a couple of knock-downs pretty well.

Will see how he goes but think he looks okay.

[Sweaty Gussets]

7 minutes ago, booth said:

Broughton said that, not JDT.

There's no way that George Hirst, a 23 year old loanee without a goal to his name in the Championship was JDT's first choice.

Rovers’ Director of Football Gregg Broughton said: “We are delighted to welcome George to Blackburn Rovers.

“He has been our first choice recruitment target as a striker all summer and, considering Jon Dahl’s knowledge of the position, this shows just how highly we regard him.

[booth]

2 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

Rovers’ Director of Football Gregg Broughton said: “We are delighted to welcome George to Blackburn Rovers.

“He has been our first choice recruitment target as a striker all summer and, considering Jon Dahl’s knowledge of the position, this shows just how highly we regard him.

Thanks for confirming that GB said that.

[joey_big_nose]

1 minute ago, booth said:

Thanks for confirming that GB said that.

Yeah but he's pretty explicit that JDT backed it as well. "our".

[booth]

Just now, joey_big_nose said:

Yeah but he's pretty explicit that JDT backed it as well. "our".

I don't disagree that JDT backed the signing, but as his first choice striker?  Do we really believe that?

He was being hyperbolic because he didn't have anyone better lined up.

[joey_big_nose]

Next week Millwall play both 352 and 343 pretty interchangeably.

I'd be pretty tempted to go 352 personally. We've got some cracking central midfielders - why not play more of them? Can pick three from Travis, Morton, Buckley, Adam Wharton, Dack. Also if we play a three we are pretty much guaranteed to be competitive in the the middle.

Means we only play one of Hirst/Dolan/Hedges alongside Brereton but I think that's okay.

Edited September 18, 2022 by joey_big_nose

[Atko's Engine]

36 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

Good to see you don't report people for engaging in genuine discussion. It's also refreshing to engage with someone who is capable of a discussion, rather than making it personal....and then running to the teacher like children.  I feel a bromance coming on💗

Anyway, we'll agree to disagree.  He's had more than enough time IMO to implement his own style (see Kompany and many other managers down the ages) - fast intense attacking football with a 'fluid' front four is how JDT advertised it. There's been very little evidence of that. Maybe it will come in time.

BTW, when is the expiry date on the 'not had enough time to implement his ideas/style of play' excuse?? 

Sorry, my mum always warned me to stay away from people with poor hygiene standards. 😉

Yes we'll have to agree to disagree then. I think he needs this season as a bedding in period. It's a strange one as this season is f*caked up by the world cup so it's one game every 4 days or so after the international break, then again after the world cup by which time the Jan transfer window is upon us; normally there would be free weeks without a midweek game during which coaching staff could focus on things other than just post-match recovery & game prep.

As others have said & as we were told to expect on their arrival, this season is about bedding in, gradually growing a settled style with appropriate personnel. Unless that period of time is producing disastrous relegation form (which it isn't atm) & risking our championship status then GB, JDT & his coaching team & the new recruitment guy should be given time to gel together for the longer term benefit of the club. I know some might not want to hear that, but realistically that's what we ought to allow imo.

[joey_big_nose]

2 minutes ago, booth said:

I don't disagree that JDT backed the signing, but as his first choice striker?  Do we really believe that?

He was being hyperbolic because he didn't have anyone better lined up.

Could be because they think he's going to be a superstar as he matures. Who knows?

[booth]

Just now, joey_big_nose said:

Could be because they think he's going to be a superstar as he matures. Who knows?

Possibly, though he is a loanee and I can't see them paying £5m for him.

I'm just saying that Hirst won't have been JDT's first choice for a striker considering his record and that there are plenty of players that are obviously better at this present time.

He looks every bit a developmental player fitting the Venkys mould of making a profit a few years down the line like BBD or Gallagher, not a player to hang your hopes on hitting double figures... Which is what we needed right now.

I'll be very surprised and disappointed if they don't spend on a striker in January.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

11 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Could be because they think he's going to be a superstar as he matures. Who knows?

Real Superstars are showing their quality even at a young age. Look at Shearer for instance. Hirst could still turn out to be a good signing though. Kevin Keegan was a great player and he had to start at Scunthorpe.

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

You can’t perform in games when you’re always sat on the bench. Having said that liking tweets isn’t the right way to go about things.

I don't see how he fits into the front 3 if we are going the front 3 like we did against Watford and Luton. Do you? 

2 hours ago, tomphil said:

Dack is going to end up at Sunderland in Jan if they are not careful and that's a major bollock dropped.

Unless they get 5 mill for him of course but Szmodics signed for two million and Dack being edged out makes no sense whatsoever.

I can see Dack and Gallagher going there in January transfer window. Maybe Ross Stewart from Sunderland coming here

of course, it's makes sense if JDT can't find a role for him. Plus, unless you were going to take off a centre back yesterday for Dack to come on I don't see who else you were going to take off for him to come on. 

2 hours ago, Gav said:

The squad is weaker than last season, the managerial team are new, the formation and style of player is different and everyone needs to calm down and give the manager and his staff time to bed in.

This season is a write off already for me, the Sheff Utd game set the bar and we are miles away from being candidates for the mix up come May, if we manage a mid-table finish I'd be overjoyed to be honest.

I disagree that the squad is weaker than last season and, in many ways, we shouldn't be looking even comparing for lots of different various reasons. 

I haven't written off the season already, but I think we could get a playoff place come end of the season. 

1 hour ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

Kompany has been here exactly the same amount of time as JDT. He's changed from Dyche-ball to a possession-based game. There is a fundamental change in style at Burnley and a massive turnover of players, a far' bigger change on both counts than has happened at Rovers. These are undeniable facts, so repeatedly saying I'm 'plain wrong' is not a valid argument. 

Oh, and our coaching staff are not 'entirely new'. Now that is 'plain wrong'!

Kompany was taking over there weeks before he was announced as their next manager. Also, he is working with players like Roberts, Brownhill, Cork who were PL players last seasons and he has signed a couple of players who knows how he was to play like Cullen and Harwood-Bellis. Many of his signings from Belgium aren't starting games yet. Plus, they are only 2 points ahead of us so far. 

On the coaching staff point, Yes Lowe, Benson and Johnson all remained here but JDT, Reijnierse and Rosen all came in. 

59 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

BTW, when is the expiry date on the 'not had enough time to implement his ideas/style of play' excuse?? 

Look at how long it Farke to implement his ideas and style of play? a full season. 

So maybe a season or less. We see in future months 

26 minutes ago, booth said:

Waggott and Broughton have to shoulder some of the blame for not recruiting sensibly. To go into another half season (after seeing what happened post January) without a good centre forward is bizarre.

Maybe give Hirst more than 96 mins of footballing before we say he not a good centre forward. He was Rovers first choice for the striker signing. 

[joey_big_nose]

16 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Real Superstars are showing their quality even at a young age. Look at Shearer for instance. Hirst could still turn out to be a good signing though. Kevin Keegan was a great player and he had to start at Scunthorpe.

Yeah or Brereton would be another obvious example. Took 2 years to get goong. Way too early to tell if he's a good player.

What's a fair challenge though is outside of Brereton we have no guaranteed goals and one more established Championship striker, a proper number 9 at that, would be very welcome.

[chaddyrovers]

22 minutes ago, booth said:

Possibly, though he is a loanee and I can't see them paying £5m for him.

I'm just saying that Hirst won't have been JDT's first choice for a striker considering his record and that there are plenty of players that are obviously better at this present time.

He looks every bit a developmental player fitting the Venkys mould of making a profit a few years down the line like BBD or Gallagher, not a player to hang your hopes on hitting double figures... Which is what we needed right now.

I'll be very surprised and disappointed if they don't spend on a striker in January.

who says the fee is 5 million pounds to sign him permanent. 

GB and the recruitment team do the scouting and researching players for signings then GB and JDT select who they want to sign. 

I think Hirst is going to be hit here, just need to get match fit and score that first goal. 

Been looking at Sunderland striker Ross Stewart to sign either in January or next summer. 

17 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Real Superstars are showing their quality even at a young age. Look at Shearer for instance. Hirst could still turn out to be a good signing though. Kevin Keegan was a great player and he had to start at Scunthorpe.

blimey, let's get Hirst fit and ready to go over the next 2 weeks but I would be selecting him up front as number 9 against Millwall

[Atko's Engine]

54 minutes ago, Sweaty Gussets said:

He needs a run of 4 or 5 consecutive games before a judgement can be made either way on his fitness. Maybe he's not the problem? 

Dare I point out that this could be construed as contradictory? That Dack requires a 5 game run in the side to prove his fitness, whereas JDT ought by now to have fully instilled his entire principles into the squad after a shortened pre-season, a run of 12 games in 7 weeks, half of which were played with a stretched squad, no fit senior CBs & with no recognised centre forward? Whilst he should also be trying to accommodate a player being rehabilitated after 2 years out with serious bilateral knee injuries?

Sounds a lot to ask to me.

FWIW I do find Dack's lack of game time disconcerting. It must either be because JDT just does not fancy him in terms of his style as a player (which sounds odd given his proven talent at this level), due to his fitness levels (which may be understandable due to his injuries), or his attitude in training (which might be exemplified by his liking of the tweet above). I presume he & JDT have spoken & that JDT has explained his position to Dack (if not that would be remiss of him), but no one player is bigger than the club, as JDT has pointed out throughout his brief time here.

[BigBar]

Football club says new player was there first choice target...what a shock.

[joey_big_nose]

One further thought on the Luton game... We played very deep most of the game and their big number 9 loved it winning the headers on the 18 year box.

I do wonder if this will be a bit of a theme with Ayala due to his lack of pace. Also his distribution isn't the best and he saw a lot of the ball but couldn't do much with it. Unlike say JPVH who was so good passing or stepping into midfield if wed got the CBs nearer the mids it could really have helped.

Food for thought. Alternative would be to pull Hyam to the centre and play Carter on the right of the three as Britain is back.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Let their worst passer have the ball and mark up every where else. That’s not exactly a new way of playing is it ?

[joey_big_nose]

10 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Let their worst passer have the ball and mark up every where else. That’s not exactly a new way of playing is it ?

Yup even better if you can make sure they have it on the edge of their own box, and the player with poor distribution is the one whose going to have the most touches in the entire side 

Edited September 18, 2022 by joey_big_nose

[den]

4 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

He could side foot the shot, obviously with a more accurate technique, as hard as Shearer putting the laces through it. Ask anybody who saw him take one. I don’t recall him ever missing.

I could be wrong here, but I have it in my mind that he scored something like 27 consecutive penalties, then missed one and didn’t take any more.

edit just read renrags post. I bow to his stats. I thought it was more than that.

Edited September 18, 2022 by den

[Hasta]

45 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

of course, it's makes sense if JDT can't find a role for him. Plus, unless you were going to take off a centre back yesterday for Dack to come on I don't see who else you were going to take off for him to come on. 

So why put him on the bench? What circumstance is he going to come on? 

Dack showed against Blackpool he still is very effective and yet he played 45 more minutes and then has not featured since. JDT is expressing stubbornness here. 

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Hasta