v Cardiff City (a) 04/10/2022

[USABlue]

15 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

What I do NOT want to see tonight is more fannying about with the ball at the back. When did it ever lead to a goal (except against us)

We saw too much of that again, sooner or later one team is going to have a field day and totally embarrass us.

I am just not seeing the style of play that JDT said he wanted to play.  Why on earth does Hirst get to take the Penalty.

[rovers11]

I'm still fuming about last night. Not about the penalty miss, I would have been embarrassed to get a point with the dross we served up, but about the performance. It was horrible in every way. 

This possession at all costs football is great if you have the players to do it. But we're not Man City or Barca and this is not the champions league, it's the championship.

Our tactics (whatever they are!), formations, and personnel change every game. Quite honestly we got away with it against Millwall because we won the game but that was a poor performance too and I still don't get the Hedges at RWB nonsense. 

The players look confused, the fans are bored, and the manager will soon run out of excuses. Not impressed. I don't feel like JDT will change his philosophy so I will be surprised if he lasts that long here. Outsiders will say that's crazy with us lying in 6th but us fans watch the team every week and can see where these performances are leading. 

Edited October 5, 2022 by rovers11

[chaddyrovers]

11 hours ago, J*B said:

I believe he was first choice at Pompy? Not sure on that though. He’s obviously a decent penalty taker to be ahead of others on the pitch. 

He is natural Penalty taker which has seen him before last night scoring 10 goals from 12 Penalties taken. 

11 hours ago, Dan said:

He shouldn’t have taken off BBD, even when he’s quiet he’s still our most likely goal threat and seemingly the only player at the club who can take a penalty. 

BBD was very poor and did nothing at all game. 

11 hours ago, garnersfags said:

Only you and JDT thought Hirst would score that penalty. 

Out of thousands watching. 

Most of us are just saying that that was one of the poorest displays we have seen for a long time, and that we seem to be going backwards.

You and one or two others seem to think we're improving, but you are in the 1% minority. Make that 0.1%.

 

 

really? based on what? this site? 

11 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

The dreaded P word. 

Losing is never easy but it's  the nature of the defeat and the fact we've been playing this badly for a while

The manager wants to play from the back but it's clearly causing us problems. He should abandon it but shows no sign of doing so. That smacks of arrogance.

He also doesn't seem to know his best team - and the players seem unmotivated and lacking confidence. This is all down to Tomasson. We all want him to succeed but at the moment he's just a better looking version of Mowbray

 

You seem to be unable and unwillingness to be able to get behind JDT and Project/plan Rovers have. I don't know why this is. 

I don't subscribe to this that he doesn't his best 11 cos Its a squad game and you pick players on form and how you play against the opposition, etc. You are living on that best 11 notion from years and years ago and not adapting to how modern day football works. 

1 hour ago, AllRoverAsia said:

3 for England youth, 4 in PL2, 2 in the EFL trophy and ONE in senior football last season for Pompey in L1. That's a 1 in senior football.

So it can only be based on what's been seen in training and not in the last minute of a Championship match with a draw at stake.

Isn't EFL Trophy senior football. He is a penalty taker and he has 10 goals from penalties. Dack has only scored 5 from his 8 penalties. Hedges and Gallagher have never taken a penalty before at senior level. 

Plus JDT and his coaching staff will have seen how good each player is at penalties so maybe instead of complaining about Hirst taken it, why don't we trust JDT and Hirst that we will come back even stronger this time. 

[jim mk2]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

I don't subscribe to this that he doesn't his best 11 cos Its a squad game and you pick players on form and how you play against the opposition, etc. You are living on that best 11 notion from years and years ago and not adapting to how modern day football works. 

I know an arrogant, failing manager when I see one. Tomasson has to change tack - the way we're playing at the moment isn't working and is as bad as anything Mowbray served up

[smiller14]

Seen people slating BBD's performance. Yes, he was poor, but he also got feck all service as we spent the majority of the game slowly passing the ball across our backline/keeper. It was infuriatingly slow and obvious, and a better team would have put 3 or 4 in us in the first half alone. We were as easy to play against as Swansea were.

I have no problem with passing football, but I keep thinking back to JDT's 'Dutch disease' comment. This was that x10. Every pass was easily telegraphed, every touch too slow, no movement off the ball, huge gaps between defence, midfield and attack. Either it was another severe off day or whatever is being coached isn't translating on the pitch and isn't being understood or implemented correctly by the players. The coaching staff must bear the brunt of that.

If that was Mowbray, we would be absolutely furious. We should give JDT time, but it doesn't mean he's above criticism for what was an insipid and frankly embarrassing performance. I was lucky the game was walking distance, but feel for those who travelled much further. I am still absolutely livid at the performance, and can only apologise for anyone who witnessed my anguished shouts at the end as the odd player limped a few yards towards the away end. 

Hirst and Szmodics signings looking odder by the game, and if they were our number 1 targets then I really do fear for our recruitment strategy. 

We've played well in 3 games (Blackpool, Watford, Swansea), okay in 2 (QPR, West Brom) and have been absolutely rank rotten for the majority of the other 7 (bar the 2nd half vs Stoke and a period vs Millwall). I'm relieved we have some points on the board but we've seen other teams drop like a stone and I don't see the fight or signs of improvement necessary to prevent us doing likewise at the moment. I sincerely hope I'm wrong. 

[roversfan99]

12 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Blimey, I think alot of you should be ashamed of your comments tonight towards. A lot of unwarranted and unnecessary comments. You are acting like a bunch of kids with your comments. 

Hirst is a penalty taker where Dack and Gallagher aren't

The same Dack who missed the penalty last season. Seems quite a lot of you have forgotten that

 wow!!! one of the most embarrassing comments I've ever seen on here. Sacking a head coach after 12 games whilst you are 6th in league. Thankfully Rovers owners, Waggott and Broughton won't be sacking him any time soon. We are higher in the league then I thought we would be at this stage. It's a project and people seem too massive overreacting again after a loss 

I get that you are very much in the honeymoon period with Tomasson and seem reluctant to even question him, trotting out the word "project" repeatedly.

But results aside, what do you make to the way Tomasson is trying to get us to play? Do you agree with it or have any concerns with it? What do you make to the signings and do you think we are lacking anywhere? Would you agree that our results show more points than perhaps our performances have warranted?

[tomphil]

35 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

It's the other way round now. Opposition managers realise if they press us high up the pitch we'll crumble and let in goals. It's happening regularly now.  

 

Could understand it a bit more if the plan was balls over the top after drawing them out. No point in that though with the way we set up but if you want to go away and grind a point it's standard championship stuff.

 

[Mattyblue]

Whoever brought ‘blimey’ to the board… thanks for that!

[booth]

However crap we were, which is concerning as JDT is being as stubborn as Mowbray, the referee lost us a point.

Bizarre that you wouldn’t wait till the ball stopped moving in that position before blowing the whistle.

And can we stop with playing Hirst? He’s clearly nowhere near the quality that we need.

[Rover_in_the_South]

Hi all - a VERY long time lurker and first time poster so thought I would add my 2 pence for what it's worth. 

In all the time I have supported Rovers I can't remember feeling as frustrated as I did last night, some of it absolute school boy stuff and we caused constant problems for ourselves being squeezed in every time we pissed around with the ball at the back - same thing was evident at Luton. It is as clear as day for us to see, let's hope this changes and soon - this is the championship, it does not work. JDT needs to learn to adapt and play different styles to succeed. This needs to stop. 

I understand to a degree that it's nice to be able to play the ball across the floor but almost every time last night was give the ball back unnecessarily and we are on the back foot again. At least when the odd hoof ball works out we are out of our half and will get the odd chance! 

What does Dack have to do to get a start? Because Szmodics has been poor every time I have seen him play and can't believe we paid what we did for him. Perhaps he still isn't match fit? I also don't rate Gally at all and we all know any time he shows glimpses of being a decent footballer it's being played through the middle. 

Poor call from Dolan last night, he should be playing Hedges in all night long - acres of space and would of tested the goalkeeper. I mean we have all tried that on the playground but this is professional football - I do think he brings some much needed energy to the team and his return so far this season hasn't been bad. 

Less said about the penalty the better - but I just knew deep down he was missing that. Cardiff being more clinical and they would of been out of sight by the half hour mark. 

Overall I can't see what style of play JDT is trying to implement but for all our sakes let's hope it comes soon because this is worse than what Mowbray was serving up IMO, I just wish my first post here was more a positive one. 

On the plus side I thought Ayala once again had a decent game and really like the look of Brittain, a decent footballer at this level. 

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Rover_in_the_South

[chaddyrovers]

20 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

I know an arrogant, failing manager when I see one. Tomasson has to change tack - the way we're playing at the moment isn't working and is as bad as anything Mowbray served up

No, He doesn't have to change tack but actually sticking to what he wants to do and get the team used to playing that way by getting them on the training field and keep playing the way he wants. 

[BlackburnEnd75]

What I don't quite understand is JDT keeps coming out and criticising the tempo and the way we are passing out from the back. Yet we continue to play in this way. There is no obvious advantage to what we are doing at the moment but yet there is quite a lot of downside.

I remember watching arsenal away at Liverpool last season, and their passing put from the back against a Liverpool press was equally suicidal and they got hammered. Arteta and the players refused to change tact and afterwards arteta basically said they've got to get used to playing this way. It works for them a lot more now as they stuck through a rocky patch. I also note that all the top teams in the world pretty much pass out from the back.

Does this mean we can be successful playing this way? I remain unconvinced. If we don't get better at it soon then we are going to throw away more points like last night and frankly it makes for a pretty hard watch. 

[RTM08]

1 minute ago, BlackburnEnd75 said:

What I don't quite understand is JDT keeps coming out and criticising the tempo and the way we are passing out from the back. Yet we continue to play in this way. There is no obvious advantage to what we are doing at the moment but yet there is quite a lot of downside.

I remember watching arsenal away at Liverpool last season, and their passing put from the back against a Liverpool press was equally suicidal and they got hammered. Arteta and the players refused to change tact and afterwards arteta basically said they've got to get used to playing this way. It works for them a lot more now as they stuck through a rocky patch. I also note that all the top teams in the world pretty much pass out from the back.

Does this mean we can be successful playing this way? I remain unconvinced. If we don't get better at it soon then we are going to throw away more points like last night and frankly it makes for a pretty hard watch. 

The difference is Arsenal then went and threw many tens of millions at players who can play what he wanted, we're rummaging around in the bins at the back of the Championship.

[Ghost7]

Agree, Haaland would have played sh*te last night with Buckley, Travis, Hedges and Dolan supplying him. 

I understand the passing out from the back more when you have 3 central defenders as you have the extra man back there (and it still hasn't been working for us) but in a 4, there's absolutely no way we have the players for that. In fact, I'm not sure many teams even try that as a 4?

The game was written off again yesterday due to the approach, it isn't working and we've had a good few lucky wins now too. It was incredible Cardiff didn't beat us sooner.

We must work on a plan B and be able to adapt when the passing out clearly isn't going to work.

Reading, Bristol City, Luton, Cardiff and Sheff U have all been horrendous performances and almost non competitive games in this league, add the Millwall and Stoke performances to that with wins and losses aside, you have 6 and a half games of totally unacceptable and ineffective football.

I like Tomasson's enthusiasm, charm... and his smile but ultimately I expected far better.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

25 minutes ago, RTM08 said:

The difference is Arsenal then went and threw many tens of millions at players who can play what he wanted, we're rummaging around in the bins at the back of the Championship.

That’s the difference. Defenders who are able to play their way out of trouble are few and far between and cost many millions.

[chaddyrovers]

22 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I get that you are very much in the honeymoon period with Tomasson and seem reluctant to even question him, trotting out the word "project" repeatedly.

No, Gregg Broughton first mention about project and what was involved in it right from the start of his appointment. Did you miss all that? 

22 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

what do you make to the way Tomasson is trying to get us to play? Do you agree with it or have any concerns with it?

I don't mind the way he wants to play and I see it as work in progress as a team. Similar how Farke did it in first season at Norwich where it took time and a season of transition this might be. I like my team pressing high and I would like to much more of this unless we a team like Swansea where we had to play differently and won the game. 

I think our tempo of passing has been far too slow and we need to use Callum Brittain much way in an attacking outlet. He is a good crosser of a ball, so we need to use him more. Reason why I would like Hirst up front and BBD coming in from the left to finish of those crosses and score goals from it.  

22 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

What do you make to the signings and do you think we are lacking anywhere?

It's a question you have asked before of me, here my answer (which hasn't change) . https://www.brfcs.com/forums/topic/35339-transfer-window-complete-where’s-gregg/?do=findComment&comment=2372799

 

22 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Would you agree that our results show more points than perhaps our performances have warranted?

no, I wouldn't

[smiller14]

One thing I'll say - where is this high press? People keep mentioning it but I haven't seen it in the vast majority of games we've played. 

[AllRoverAsia]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

He is natural Penalty taker which has seen him before last night scoring 10 goals from 12 Penalties taken. 

BBD was very poor and did nothing at all game. 

really? based on what? this site? 

You seem to be unable and unwillingness to be able to get behind JDT and Project/plan Rovers have. I don't know why this is. 

I don't subscribe to this that he doesn't his best 11 cos Its a squad game and you pick players on form and how you play against the opposition, etc. You are living on that best 11 notion from years and years ago and not adapting to how modern day football works. 

Isn't EFL Trophy senior football. He is a penalty taker and he has 10 goals from penalties. Dack has only scored 5 from his 8 penalties. Hedges and Gallagher have never taken a penalty before at senior level. 

Plus JDT and his coaching staff will have seen how good each player is at penalties so maybe instead of complaining about Hirst taken it, why don't we trust JDT and Hirst that we will come back even stronger this time. 

If you want to think that PL clubs play full strength teams in the early rounds of the EFL Trophy it's ok with me.

Hirst - 10 successful from 13 or 14

Dack - 5 successful from 8

quite similar but really both are too small a sample.

I am happy to accept that Hirst had the courage to take the pen last night and credit to him for that.

He's 24 next February and it's past time he scored his debut goal at Championship level. I wish him well ... for all our sakes.

[Crimpshrine]

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I things don’t pick up between now and then and the worst happens at the dingledome it could be taxi for Tomasson. He needs to wake up and smell the roses, he’s not here for a holiday..

At any other club yes. I think Venky's are past caring about results. Sacking a manager would just be an unwanted expense.

Maybe JDT will decide to order a taxi himself.

[Mattyblue]

Every DoF would describe their club as a ‘project’ or ‘on a journey’. It’s just the modern day corporate waffle you hear across the game.

All clubs are trying to improve and ergo ‘on a journey’ of sorts, but calling it ‘a project’ doesn’t mean they are immune to criticism.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Mattyblue

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

3 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

If you want to think that PL clubs play full strength teams in the early rounds of the EFL Trophy it's ok with me.

Hirst - 10 successful from 13 or 14

Dack - 5 successful from 8

quite similar but really both are too small a sample.

I am happy to accept that Hirst had the courage to take the pen last night and credit to him for that.

He's 24 next February and it's past time he scored his debut goal at Championship level. I wish him well ... for all our sakes.

 

He’ll never get a better chance to open his account.

[chaddyrovers]

5 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

If you want to think that PL clubs play full strength teams in the early rounds of the EFL Trophy it's ok with me.

PL teams don't play in the EFL trophy. The EFL Trophy is annual English association football knockout competition open to the 48 clubs in EFL League One and EFL League Two, the third and fourth tiers of the English football league system and, since the 2016–17 season, 16 under-21 sides from Premier League and EFL Championship clubs.

5 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Hirst - 10 successful from 13 or 14

Dack - 5 successful from 8

quite similar but really both are too small a sample.

 

 

before last night Hirst had 10 Pen scored from 12. Rich Sharpe provided the stats this morning

[AllRoverAsia]

17 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

PL teams don't play in the EFL trophy. The EFL Trophy is annual English association football knockout competition open to the 48 clubs in EFL League One and EFL League Two, the third and fourth tiers of the English football league system and, since the 2016–17 season, 16 under-21 sides from Premier League and EFL Championship clubs.

before last night Hirst had 10 Pen scored from 12. Rich Sharpe provided the stats this morning

Transfrmkt list Hirst as scoring in the EFL trophy for Leicester, one in 19/20 and one in 20/21.

Thanks for clarifying the number of pens.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

21 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

PL teams don't play in the EFL trophy. The EFL Trophy is annual English association football knockout competition open to the 48 clubs in EFL League One and EFL League Two, the third and fourth tiers of the English football league system and, since the 2016–17 season, 16 under-21 sides from Premier League and EFL Championship clubs.

before last night Hirst had 10 Pen scored from 12. Rich Sharpe provided the stats this morning

Would you be expecting him to take the next one then ?

[roversfan99]

55 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

No, Gregg Broughton first mention about project and what was involved in it right from the start of his appointment. Did you miss all that? 

I don't mind the way he wants to play and I see it as work in progress as a team. Similar how Farke did it in first season at Norwich where it took time and a season of transition this might be. I like my team pressing high and I would like to much more of this unless we a team like Swansea where we had to play differently and won the game. 

I think our tempo of passing has been far too slow and we need to use Callum Brittain much way in an attacking outlet. He is a good crosser of a ball, so we need to use him more. Reason why I would like Hirst up front and BBD coming in from the left to finish of those crosses and score goals from it.  

It's a question you have asked before of me, here my answer (which hasn't change) . https://www.brfcs.com/forums/topic/35339-transfer-window-complete-where’s-gregg/?do=findComment&comment=2372799

 

no, I wouldn't

The one tactical choice that Tomasson has managed to get the players to follow is to try and play it out from the back. This has and will continue to cause us problems and will bore everyone rigid doing so. Results hage been reasonable and IMO are better than the level of performance but I think if we lose a few on the bounce, that the passing it out stuff will really frustrate Ewood.