v Cardiff City (a) 04/10/2022

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

49 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I don't mind the way he wants to play and I see it as work in progress as a team. Similar how Farke did it in first season at Norwich where it took time and a season of transition this might be. I like my team pressing high and I would like to much more of this unless we a team like Swansea where we had to play differently and won the game. 

I think our tempo of passing has been far too slow and we need to use Callum Brittain much way in an attacking outlet. He is a good crosser of a ball, so we need to use him more. Reason why I would like Hirst up front and BBD coming in from the left to finish of those crosses and score goals from it.  

 

IMO - this was part of the problem last night - we pressed high with the front four, but when they were bypassed they had acres into which to pass. Throughout the whole match we played far too deep - which in turn disconnected the midfield from the forward players. By contrast, Cardiff pressed as a team - which contributed to our poor performance.

You are right about the tempo - IMO both midfield players contributed to that by hanging onto the ball for too long - though to be honest, given we had four forwards, they seemed to have limited options to pass forward.

If we are to continue passing from the back - we seriously need to work on giving the receiving player options. Ayala held onto the ball for far too long, but I think this was due to lack of options. There is also nothing wrong with mixing it up - not certain if Cardiff got nervous - but we looked far better in the last 10 mins when playing a little more direct.

Overall Dolan had a poor match - but it was nice to see him releasing the ball far quicker (most of the time) - so obviously JDT is getting through to him.

You can see glimpses of what he is trying to do - but I think JDT has to mix it up a little. 

[Miller11]

43 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I think our tempo of passing has been far too slow and we need to use Callum Brittain much way in an attacking outlet. He is a good crosser of a ball, so we need to use him more. Reason why I would like Hirst up front and BBD coming in from the left to finish of those crosses and score goals from it.  

I agree with most of this Chaddy. There were a couple of occasions last night where Brittain got into good crossing positions. Unfortunately a combination of really poor movement and the cross being overhit meant they came to nothing. I’m a little bit confused as to what JDT actually wants from his fullbacks and that goes for whether we are playing 4 or 3/5 at the back.

Whenever a fullback gets forward, the winger/wide forward in front of them seems to be there to give an easy out ball. When this happens we generally play it safe rather than cross it. We try and work an opening, but quite often end up going back to the centre backs - this happened plenty of times last season too. It continues to be ponderous, and worryingly we are seeing less overlapping by the fullbacks than we did last year. Dolan or Hedges or whoever is playing false 9 tends to get dragged out to get involved with the short passing too. You’d expect the opposite wide forward to be cutting in and screaming for a cross, particularly Gallagher and Brereton, but they never get in between the posts. I can see your logic with Hirst but I’m not sure he’s the man for the job.

Pickering (whose game has picked up markedly from the first few games) tends to come inside a hell of a lot more now, and he’s usually got an early ball over the top for Brereton to chase as an option. Nyambe got a lot of criticism for his supposed reluctance to cross… but who was he supposed to cross to? I was hoping this would be addressed by JDT, particularly considering Brittain is meant to have a really good delivery.

This wide striker set up doesn’t lend itself to getting balls in the box at all. I found it interesting that our best passage of play last night involved an actual winger (Dolan) doing actual winger things.

[des]

For me having watched the second half a number of things hit me 

Our movement off the ball when we had the ball was poor to say the least there always had more and better options then us when rhere had the  ball

Our passing from the back to the front was once again poor this was not helping by a lack of options from midfield.

Our forwards to date are not too good. The hold up play wasbad the control and first touch was not all to the mark .

 

If we are playing the press system then all the team must press at the same time often the forwards would press and the midfield and defence dropped back hence leaving free space for them to by pass the press 

If qe want to play the way our manager wants then for me there have to play a three five two system. The midfield was overwhelmed at times 

Our star forward had a bad games and he as had some bad games so far so if deal can be done in Jan then sell and reinvestment in the team can be done.

 

 

[den]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

No, He doesn't have to change tack but actually sticking to what he wants to do and get the team used to playing that way by getting them on the training field and keep playing the way he wants. 

Yes, I can see that and that’s what he’ll continue to do.  
What if things get worse? Will there come a time when you come on here and say he must carry on doing it?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

32 minutes ago, des said:

For me having watched the second half a number of things hit me 

Our movement off the ball when we had the ball was poor to say the least there always had more and better options then us when rhere had the  ball

Our passing from the back to the front was once again poor this was not helping by a lack of options from midfield.

Our forwards to date are not too good. The hold up play wasbad the control and first touch was not all to the mark .

 

If we are playing the press system then all the team must press at the same time often the forwards would press and the midfield and defence dropped back hence leaving free space for them to by pass the press 

If qe want to play the way our manager wants then for me there have to play a three five two system. The midfield was overwhelmed at times 

Our star forward had a bad games and he as had some bad games so far so if deal can be done in Jan then sell and reinvestment in the team can be done.

 

 

The secret to any pass and move team is MOVE. We’re not giving the guy on the ball enough options and we’re taking the ball stood still.

[Hasta]

There's nothing new I can say that I havent said after the Luton and Millwall games. Slow pointless passing putting ourselves in trouble and losing the ball and creating little threat.

When we went a goal down we suddnely started trying to get the ball forward quicker and looked a bit more dangerous. Also helped that we had an attacker on the pitch who knows how to find himself in dangerous positions.

However i'm sure we will be back to the same slow build from our own half "project" next game. Jon Dahl Stubbornsson

Edited October 5, 2022 by Hasta

[Crozzy]

10 hours ago, yankfan said:

Hirst. I’ve witnessed Dack put the ball in the net. 

I thought that’s what you meant 

[roverblue]

I dont like the passing out of the back either but it is an issue for midfield as much as the defence. In most games this season the gaps between defence, midfield and attack are far to large allowing the opposition to fill the gap with numbers and force possession to be turned over.

Its blatent, and after 10 games should be being addressed rather than constant repetition in matches in the hope our centre backs will suddenly become Kevin de Bruyne esque at passing. 

It feels like the team is almost 3 mini teams of defence, midfield and attack with no cohesion between them

[oldjamfan1]

6 minutes ago, roverblue said:

I dont like the passing out of the back either but it is an issue for midfield as much as the defence. In most games this season the gaps between defence, midfield and attack are far to large allowing the opposition to fill the gap with numbers and force possession to be turned over.

Its blatent, and after 10 games should be being addressed rather than constant repetition in matches in the hope our centre backs will suddenly become Kevin de Bruyne esque at passing. 

It feels like the team is almost 3 mini teams of defence, midfield and attack with no cohesion between them

Yes, I agree with this. Travis is a bit of a problem at the minute. He's ponderous in possession, his passing isn't great and he gives away a lot of possession via silly free kicks. 

I appreciate that he can't play every game but Adam Wharton has to be the answer here. Him and Morton looked like a decent combination against the Donkey Lashers.

[Miller11]

19 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

Yes, I agree with this. Travis is a bit of a problem at the minute. He's ponderous in possession, his passing isn't great and he gives away a lot of possession via silly free kicks. 

I appreciate that he can't play every game but Adam Wharton has to be the answer here. Him and Morton looked like a decent combination against the Donkey Lashers.

Travis is becoming an utter disaster when facing towards our goal.

[Mercer]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

PL teams don't play in the EFL trophy. The EFL Trophy is annual English association football knockout competition open to the 48 clubs in EFL League One and EFL League Two, the third and fourth tiers of the English football league system and, since the 2016–17 season, 16 under-21 sides from Premier League and EFL Championship clubs.

before last night Hirst had 10 Pen scored from 12. Rich Sharpe provided the stats this morning

I could sink 10 out of 12 putts on local pitch and putt course.

Could I sink 10 out of 12 at Augusta - could I feck.

Different circumstances, different standards, different pressures - a huge difference for Hirst.

40 Championship appearances and not a single goal.  There is a reason - think he's clearly donkey.- makes Ashley Ward look like Haaland!

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Mercer

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Would you be expecting him to take the next one then ?

All depends who on the pitch at the time and what order of the penalty takers are. I would think BBD is first then possible Hirst then maybe Dolan after

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

The one tactical choice that Tomasson has managed to get the players to follow is to try and play it out from the back. This has and will continue to cause us problems and will bore everyone rigid doing so. Results hage been reasonable and IMO are better than the level of performance but I think if we lose a few on the bounce, that the passing it out stuff will really frustrate Ewood.

Fans have to understand what JDT wants and as he and our director of football Broughton have both said that he needs them on the training ground for long period of time which will happen in November during the world cup cos at the minute its mostly 1 or 2 days on the training field at the minute with it mostly being recovering days and games at the minute. 

3 hours ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

IMO - this was part of the problem last night - we pressed high with the front four, but when they were bypassed they had acres into which to pass. Throughout the whole match we played far too deep - which in turn disconnected the midfield from the forward players. By contrast, Cardiff pressed as a team - which contributed to our poor performance.

You are right about the tempo - IMO both midfield players contributed to that by hanging onto the ball for too long - though to be honest, given we had four forwards, they seemed to have limited options to pass forward.

If we are to continue passing from the back - we seriously need to work on giving the receiving player options. Ayala held onto the ball for far too long, but I think this was due to lack of options. There is also nothing wrong with mixing it up - not certain if Cardiff got nervous - but we looked far better in the last 10 mins when playing a little more direct.

Overall Dolan had a poor match - but it was nice to see him releasing the ball far quicker (most of the time) - so obviously JDT is getting through to him.

You can see glimpses of what he is trying to do - but I think JDT has to mix it up a little. 

Yes, our tempo and pressing high wasn't good enough which was 2 key parts why we underperformed yesterday. We need more movement ahead of the defending line if we want to play out from the back. There is nothing playing a long ball and mix it up at times or when is necessary

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, Miller11 said:

I agree with most of this Chaddy. There were a couple of occasions last night where Brittain got into good crossing positions. Unfortunately a combination of really poor movement and the cross being overhit meant they came to nothing. I’m a little bit confused as to what JDT actually wants from his fullbacks and that goes for whether we are playing 4 or 3/5 at the back.

Whenever a fullback gets forward, the winger/wide forward in front of them seems to be there to give an easy out ball. When this happens we generally play it safe rather than cross it. We try and work an opening, but quite often end up going back to the centre backs - this happened plenty of times last season too. It continues to be ponderous, and worryingly we are seeing less overlapping by the fullbacks than we did last year. Dolan or Hedges or whoever is playing false 9 tends to get dragged out to get involved with the short passing too. You’d expect the opposite wide forward to be cutting in and screaming for a cross, particularly Gallagher and Brereton, but they never get in between the posts. I can see your logic with Hirst but I’m not sure he’s the man for the job.

Pickering (whose game has picked up markedly from the first few games) tends to come inside a hell of a lot more now, and he’s usually got an early ball over the top for Brereton to chase as an option. Nyambe got a lot of criticism for his supposed reluctance to cross… but who was he supposed to cross to? I was hoping this would be addressed by JDT, particularly considering Brittain is meant to have a really good delivery.

This wide striker set up doesn’t lend itself to getting balls in the box at all. I found it interesting that our best passage of play last night involved an actual winger (Dolan) doing actual winger things.

I don't mind Dolan as the 9 when we are pressing high but time after time we didn't yesterday, and I would like to start Hirst now. Ideally you would 3 or 4 in the box if Brittain or Pickering are crossing the ball into the box. 

2 hours ago, den said:

Yes, I can see that and that’s what he’ll continue to do.  
What if things get worse? Will there come a time when you come on here and say he must carry on doing it?

What happens if things improve under JDT and we are still 6th come Christmas time? 

35 minutes ago, Mercer said:

I could sink 10 out of 12 putts on local pitch and putt course.

Could I sink 10 out of 12 at Augusta - could I feck.

Different circumstances, different standards, different pressures - a huge difference for Hirst.

40 Championship appearances and not a single goal.  There is a reason - think he's clearly donkey.- makes Ashley Ward look like Haaland!

well Mercer, we have to agree to disagree cos I think there is player in Hirst, and I will look forward to proving you wrong. 

[Oldgregg86]

6 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

It’s like he went away on holiday in summer and his twin brother came back in his place. 
 

To try and lighten the mood this morning. A story about my Rugby League team. The directors had gone scouting a rugby union player in deepest Gloucestershire after the last war. As was things in those days it was all cloak and dagger, rugby league directors were poison to union officials. The centre they were scouting had a great game and the directors decided to sign him. They spotted the guy come into the club house after the game for a pint and took him to one side. “ Would you like to sign a contract with us and play professional rugby ?” They asked him.

The guy said “ I’d love to sign for you gentlemen but what about this ? “  With that he lifted his trousers bottoms slightly to reveal an artificial leg ! He’d been wounded in the war and he was the twin brother of the lad they had been scouting.

So they where both injured in the war and the brother had a false leg and pretended to be his brother who was presumably more injured ?

[jim mk2]

32 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

well Mercer, we have to agree to disagree cos I think there is player in Hirst, and I will look forward to proving you wrong. 

Yes, there is a player there. On the evidence so far, a not very good one

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

All depends who on the pitch at the time and what order of the penalty takers are. I would think BBD is first then possible Hirst then maybe Dolan after

Fans have to understand what JDT wants and as he and our director of football Broughton have both said that he needs them on the training ground for long period of time which will happen in November during the world cup cos at the minute its mostly 1 or 2 days on the training field at the minute with it mostly being recovering days and games at the minute. 

Yes, our tempo and pressing high wasn't good enough which was 2 key parts why we underperformed yesterday. We need more movement ahead of the defending line if we want to play out from the back. There is nothing playing a long ball and mix it up at times or when is necessary

If we continue with the same style and go on a poor run, people will react and there will be frustration and anxiety in the ground. No amount of patronising comments on here will make a difference.

[Herbie6590]

 

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

If we continue with the same style and go on a poor run, people will react and there will be frustration and anxiety in the ground. No amount of patronising comments on here will make a difference.

No panicking or angry comments will make any difference on here or at Ewood Park either 

[tonyoz]

16 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

 

By contrast, whoscored has Ayala our best player on 7.2 with all the rest an amorphous blob rating from 6.1 (Diaz and Travis)  to 6.9. Not much differentiation there! I think the combined opinions of our own board members is a much better reflection of the performance.

[jim mk2]

Good choice, Pickering had a fine game - barely put a foot wrong. Ayala was a liability at the back and caused us so many problems hanging on to the ball too long or passing to the opposition  - it's ridiculous anyone could vote for him as MotM