v Rotherham United (h) 08/10/2022

[Upside Down]

3 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Dacky delirious…

Szmodics seems happy there.

[superniko]

3 hours ago, Atko's Engine said:

I've not read beyond this post yet so maybe this point has been made, but I don't think that's truly representative & is very misleading.

90 days ago was shortly after JDT arrived so interest was piqued, plus it was the transfer window. I presume the peaks are days of signings & deadline day, and how many days in between were filled with speculation, "where's Greg"isms & all sorts of waffle & bickering unrelated to the current squad & just fluffed out the threads??

Once the season starts, posts are limited to matches, & esp as we've played pretty much every 3 or 4 days, interest quickly moves onto the next match, there's not much time for much else!

One thing I have noticed is the lack of content on here following victories compared to defeats. Today for example we're only on page 16, at 9.30pm on a Saturday night; half of that was prior to the lineups being announced & most of it not too complimentary following on from the Cardiff loss. On Tuesday, by about midnight there were 30+ pages, mostly derogatory about the performance & comments that JDT isn't up to the task. I think that speaks volumes for the general tone on here being hyper critical, in that when we win folk find it hard to compliment (hence lack of posts) & say it just papers over cracks, yet when we lose they go overboard in their criticism & claim (for example) the selection was wrong, style is wrong, players are L1 standard at best, we'll still end up in a relegation scrap, bought cheap, waste of money, etc.

It just seems unnecessary to me how folk go so overboard on defeats, but pass off wins as well so what, that's what their paid to do right??

Maybe that isn't just a BRFCS thing, maybe it's forums per se; I don't know enough of other forums to compare. But I do think it's a valid point to raise in this context.

Anyway, I keep coming back, posting & enjoying banter, so maybe I'm a glutton for punishment!!

Good win today, glad for Szmodics to get an assist & a goal, it can only be good for the club that he succeeds here.

Cardiff was on Sky away from home midweek, so lots of posts from the sofa during the match. Rotherham was a Saturday with most inside the ground not posting…but I do agree with the general sentiment of the post. 

[Upside Down]

@J*B

Can we unlock the Wigan thread now?

[J*B]

28 minutes ago, Upside Down said:

@J*B

Can we unlock the Wigan thread now?

I can’t see a Wigan thread?

[Mattyblue]

It’s halfway down page 2. 

[Ricky]

It’s mental that we’ve seen some actually awful football so far this season (and some top quality games too) yet we find ourselves just 3 points from the top of the table. I think we would have all taken that at the start of the season.

Just shows what a competitive league we are in. Just need to break the WLW sequence with a few more wins and we’ll be right in the mix.

[Upside Down]

59 minutes ago, J*B said:

I can’t see a Wigan thread?

It got locked when everyone started getting menstral about the queen.

Edit: I see its back alive now.

Edited October 9, 2022 by Upside Down

[ben_the_beast]

11 hours ago, Ossydave said:

He's becoming a utility player which makes it all the more baffling that TM didn't wanna use him. Unless he got caught balls deep in a lemon drizzle at half time I'm not sure why the last gaffer didn't rate him. POTS up to now for me.

Agree that it's amazing Mowbray didn't want to use him. For me utility players can 'do a job' in a number of positions. Hedges however is one of our top 3 players on the pitch, every game, no matter the position. He's such an intelligent and consistent player.

[arbitro]

9 hours ago, had.e.nuff said:

dont know if its be said on here but why was the defender not sent off for the penalty the laws states

 

DENYING A GOAL OR AN OBVIOUS GOAL-SCORING OPPORTUNITY (DOGSO)

Where a player commits an offence against an opponent within their own penalty area which denies an opponent an obvious goal-scoring opportunity and the referee awards a penalty kick, the offender is cautioned if the offence was an attempt to play the ball; in all other circumstances (e.g. holding, pulling,
pushing, no possibility to play the ball etc.) the offending player must be sent off.

The law changed a few years ago and is now referred to as the double jeopardy rule. If the challenge is cynical and prevents an obvious goalscoring opportunity it is a penalty and red card. As an example a mistimed challenge or genuine attempt to play the ball would only be a yellow card and penalty. In my view the referee got it right yesterday.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

11 hours ago, aletheia said:

We see different games do we not?

 

First fifteen and we could have been 2-0 down. Their electrifying pace and sharp passing destroyed us. Thereafter, they somewhat passed themselves to death and didn’t deal with our quick counter-attacks. First goal penalty against the run of play took the wind out of their sails (why do defenders do that?), second goal ruined them –game over. They look like an exciting young team well coached buy not great defensively. Should have used their big striker more with early diagonals.

Travis is too slow and poor on the ball to play JDT’s one touch stuff. Ayala (cracking defender) got away with murder holding their striker. Gally did nothing much –perhaps come into his own when pitches get heavier. On that note, I’m fascinated to see how it goes in winter when pitches get less forgiving – can we keep up the tippy-tappy style preferred?

A win is a win. Mogadon was perhaps an even-keel. A JDT team bipolar? Mid table again but with a flush of optimism around as opposed to the gurning one?

 

I agree with much of this - the first goal is so important in the Championship - had they scored one of their early chances this MB may have been a different place.

I disagree about Travis - who I think does a Savage like role for the team. I will admit he doesn't have Rothwell like pace - but he did break their lines well on a number of occasions. 

Ayala did get away with a number of shirt pulls - but he wasn't alone. Interesting to see Rotherham attacking players pulling our defenders shirts to get an advantage.

 

[arbitro]

4 minutes ago, Ricky said:

It’s mental that we’ve seen some actually awful football so far this season (and some top quality games too) yet we find ourselves just 3 points from the top of the table. I think we would have all taken that at the start of the season.

Just shows what a competitive league we are in. Just need to break the WLW sequence with a few more wins and we’ll be right in the mix.

We've also seen some very good football too. It's that middle ground we have been missing were we need to grind out a few draws from adequate performances. Somebody described us, from a footballing perspective as bi polar. I think that is a great description.

[garnersfags]

Interesting thoughts around how critical we were on Tuesday night compared to today. I think most of the criticism following the Cardiff performance was justified. We just looked so uncomfortable on the ball, for 90 minutes. Our passing and ball retention was very very poor, and many of us worry that our consistently poor away performances may derail our play-off chances. Calling for JDT's head was of course over the top, based on genuine emotional disappointment.

The Rotherham performance was positive and continued the run of one decent 90 min home performance every 3 or 4 games, the last one was against a v poor Watford. 

We have yet to dominate and beat a settled side with a decent manager. Our good performances have been against teams with new young managers, or teams who's managers are under real pressure. 

If JDT can overcome his inability to select an eleven and tactics to consistently retain and pass the ball effectively away from home, we will be on track for a good season. This for me, is a big IF though, purely based on away performances so far. 

One issue I have, even at home, is that Morton(or Wharton, or Dack) is our only real creative passing force, with the impressive work-rate(but more limited passing ability) of Hedges, Gallacher, and Travis around him. For me, whoever plays in the Szmodics role really needs to be more creative and more involved in the game, and hopefully Szmodics's improved 2nd half showing bodes well, but I'm yet to be convinced. Whoever is in this position needs to score 12-16 goals a season for us to be promoted, as we score very few goals from any other position. 

All this may sound critical after a really good win, but we're now talking the detail of what it takes to nail the consistency to achieve promotion, and I think that's what this forum is here for. 

The full league table below, with both home and away stats, shows how our away form needs to improve. If we lose on Tuesday, our away form, in terms of results, will be the opposite of our home form, which would leave us around the bottom of the top half at the end of the season. 

https://thefishy.co.uk/leaguetable.php?table=2

Here's hoping we break the cycle at Wigan! 

Edited October 9, 2022 by garnersfags

[garnersfags]

11 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

Dacky delirious…

This reminds me that Dack shook very few hands at full-time, did a very quick solo sweet caroline clap to the BB End, then walked straight down the tunnel, head-down, alone, before the others had even shook hands with the opposition and officials. Apols if this was mentioned last night. 

It's not a big shock, but for me that's effectively the end of Dack at Ewood, and I think he'll be remembered in the same way Jansen is remembered, in terms of what might have been after such a promising start to his Rovers career. It was sad to watch. 

Hope I'm wrong, and he suddenly becomes the hard working box to box midfielder that JDT wants him to be, but not holding my breath....

[jim mk2]

Dack has been and never will be a "hard working box to box midfielder". That's not his game. His an old fashioned inside forward who works with the main strikers - a "No 10" in modern parlance. It looks like he's finished at Rovers though which is a shame because we don't have another player like him.

[garnersfags]

19 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Dack has been and never will be a "hard working box to box midfielder". That's not his game. His an old fashioned inside forward who works with the main strikers - a "No 10" in modern parlance. It looks like he's finished at Rovers though which is a shame because we don't have another player like him.

Sorry Jim, my comment was ironic, but I totally agree with you. 

[rigger]

2 hours ago, Ricky said:

It’s mental that we’ve seen some actually awful football so far this season (and some top quality games too) yet we find ourselves just 3 points from the top of the table. I think we would have all taken that at the start of the season.

Just shows what a competitive league we are in. Just need to break the WLW sequence with a few more wins and we’ll be right in the mix.

from what I have seen this season, it shows what a shit league we are in.

[Atko's Engine]

9 hours ago, superniko said:

Cardiff was on Sky away from home midweek, so lots of posts from the sofa during the match. Rotherham was a Saturday with most inside the ground not posting…but I do agree with the general sentiment of the post. 

Fair comment, perhaps my selection of the cardiff game as a comparator was also a bit misleading, but it was the most recent & "in the mind" example. Like you say though, the point is still a valid one.

It's strange to me because clearly most folk on here are knowledgeable, dyed in the wool types who are clearly passionate about the club and therefore know & have experience of the ups & downs of the game, so to go so overboard during / following a defeat or poor performance runs contrary to that. 

Someone above said, "after a poor run of form, all of a sudden we're 3 points from top". I don't class 7W 6L as a poor run of form, and don't think we've ever been lower than 8th or 6 points off top.

I guess all I'm hoping for in future is that credit should be handed out as fairly as criticism, and players (like Szmodics), GB & JDT need to be given time to show us what we can do.

We're in the best position as a club that we've been in for a decade; let's hope we can push on, starting with a win on Tuesday to break this bizarre run of results!

[Mattyblue]

Football message boards have always been and will always be like this, so there’s no point worrying about it.

But are they backed at games? Yes, and that’s all that matters.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, rigger said:

from what I have seen this season, it shows what a shit league we are in.

That’s the way mate, bit of positivity! 🙄 

[Atko's Engine]

5 hours ago, arbitro said:

The law changed a few years ago and is now referred to as the double jeopardy rule. If the challenge is cynical and prevents an obvious goalscoring opportunity it is a penalty and red card. As an example a mistimed challenge or genuine attempt to play the ball would only be a yellow card and penalty. In my view the referee got it right yesterday.

I've just seen the highlights, I think it would've been a straight red & penalty had there not been another defender level with the offender, and also Morton was going slightly away from goal. There was clearly no attempt by the offender to get the ball, but a yellow & pen was probably right.

Can only repeat what others have said re the quality passing involved in all 3 goals, they were all firm, positive, incisive periods of passing into players making good runs ahead of the player in possession, which is how i think we all want the game to be played. If we can find that type of control in possession more consistently we will be a handful for anyone.

[Oldgregg86]

18 hours ago, Tricky said:

It's nothing new, he needs to fight for his place. There's still this obsession from a number of fans that he's still our best player and must start every game though which is quite sad. 

Dack came over and clapped the fans and gave someone his shirt 🤨

[garnersfags]

2 hours ago, Atko's Engine said:

It's strange to me because clearly most folk on here are knowledgeable, dyed in the wool types who are clearly passionate about the club and therefore know & have experience of the ups & downs of the game, so to go so overboard during / following a defeat or poor performance runs contrary to that. 

I guess all I'm hoping for in future is that credit should be handed out as fairly as criticism, and players (like Szmodics), GB & JDT need to be given time to show us what we can do.

I think the reason the comments have expressed such disappointment is quite how low we have sunk in terms of our inability to pass and retain the ball effectively for 90 minutes in a high number of games, therefore restricting our strikers to minimal reasonable chances. And our inability to remedy this during the game...

I said, admittedly emotionally, on Tuesday night that it was the poorest 90 minutes passing and ball retaining performance I could remember for a long time, so therefore that's what I shared on here.

It genuinely was worse than the end of last season, and no, I didn't want TM to stay, and no, I don't want JDT to go, but the fact remains it was as poor as many of us have seen, and therefore, as 'knowledgeable, dyed in th wool types', we say what we see and say that it is worrying, whilst acknowledging that it is a new era and will hopefully improve. 

Yesterday was better, but a decent opposition strike force would have been 2 or 3-1 up at half-time. 

We just say what we see. Good and bad, and 3 points off the top is a good place to be when you have lost 6 out of 13 games. 

Edited October 9, 2022 by garnersfags

[roversfan99]

Very comfortable win yesterday against a really poor opponent as you often find in the Championship. We looked much better with far less onus on passing it around the back, going forward much quicker and doing our passing in their half, a clear change from recent tactics and it paid off.

Our huge reliance on Brereton continues, lets hope he doesn't miss any games as we need him, and I do worry when we unnecessarily lose him for free how far we will be set back with no money to replace him.

A couple of new signings had by far their best game in a Rovers shirt. Morton was very good and I hope he continues in the same vein and Szmodics whilst doing little aside from his goal and assist gave us something very crucial in contributing to goals which our attackers aside from Brereton struggle to do, the cross for Brereton was particularly stand out.

Hedges is a strange one, his general level of performance was very good although that role doesn't suit him and he was too deep. Elsewhere, Ayala struggled most out of the back 3 directly against Ogbene, Gallagher was anonymous, Kaminski was a by-stander, Travis was sloppy at times and Wharton also stood out, Hyam was ok too.

[rigger]

1 hour ago, Mellor Rover said:

That’s the way mate, bit of positivity! 🙄 

No, realism. I am positive it's a shit league.

Edited October 9, 2022 by rigger

[Atko's Engine]

14 minutes ago, garnersfags said:

I think the reason the comments have expressed such disappointment is quite how low we have sunk in terms of our inability to pass and retain the ball effectively for 90 minutes in a high number of games, therefore restricting our strikers to minimal reasonable chances. And our inability to remedy this during the game...

I said, admittedly emotionally, on Tuesday night that it was the poorest 90 minutes passing and ball retaining performance I could remember for a long time, so therefore that's what I shared on here.

It genuinely was worse than the end of last season, and no, I didn't want TM to stay, and no, I don't want JDT to go, but the fact remains it was as poor as many of us have seen, and therefore, as 'knowledgeable, dyed in th wool types', we say what we see and say that it is worrying, whilst acknowledging that it is a new era and will hopefully improve. 

Yesterday was better, but a decent opposition strike force would have been 2 or 3-1 up at half-time. 

We just say what we see. Good and bad, and 3 points off the top is a good place to be when you have lost 6 out of 13 games. 

Fair enough, I didn't see it as I can't get to away matches & don't have sky.  But even though it was a poor performance and folk are entitled to call it out, it didn't warrant the extended OTT conclusions that many came out with. We are so early into JDT's reign, with a young squad, trying new things with many players barely half a dozen games into their careers here. It's bound to be bumpy and there will be bad choices made by players & staff (as pointed out by JDT yesterday), but to me that's just natural.

Anyway, I've probably taken this as far as I should for now & don't want to come across as a kill joy! I think we can all agree that we're in a decent position from which build. Szmodics comments after yesterday re everyone buying into his thought processes (esp his use of the U21s games) is good to see, esp with the U21s being 2 up v the Mancs this season!

What would make this better is Dack being more involved. Whatever the reason, JDT can point to us being in striking distance of the top to justify his decisions  but it would be great to see Dack get more of a chance to be influential from here. A goal @ Wigan would be just the tonic for him & us.