v Coventry (a) - 1/11/22 - at CBS Arena (the Ricoh in old money)

[Crimpshrine]

51 minutes ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

I am possibly alone, but I think I can see what JDT is trying to achieve. When it comes off, we score brilliant goals, when it doesn't (as last night) we continually give the ball away. Is it a tactical problem, or inconsistency in performance which you generally get with such a young team.

I am as frustrated as anyone about his unwillingness to change tactics during matches, my only hope is that he sees this as a long term approach worth sticking to for long term benefit. Guardiola struggled initially at City - but stuck to his principles. Is it arrogance, or just self belief ?

I agree in that I can see what JDT is trying to do and that he is trying to instil his methods into the players. The problem is that we just don't have players with the skill or composure to play out of defence safely. Travis, Ayala, Hyam, Scott Wharton are not sophisticated players and are not particularly comfortable with the ball at their feet. Brittain and Pickering may be more suited but still tend to be a little bit rushed. So it comes down to Morton, A Wharton or Szmodics to find a killer pass and last night they were all giving the ball away for fun or putting other players under pressure by playing them into trouble.

JDT can keep trying this approach but it's not going to work with these players. We have some really good players but we need to play to their strengths. Let the defenders be good, solid, no-nonsense defenders and get the creativity moved further up the pitch ( Bradley Dack hint hint ).

 

[rigger]

1 hour ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

There will be a pile of sawdust on its way

Already done it. And it was a more effective plait, than Hirst is a football player. 

[Oldgregg86]

I think Gallagher and hedges are two massive losses. We transform from a decent side to a pretty weak and inexperienced one without them

[Darrenbot]

1 hour ago, Oldgregg86 said:

I think Gallagher and hedges are two massive losses. We transform from a decent side to a pretty weak and inexperienced one without them

It shows our lack of depth in the squad when 2 of our better players miss out we suddenly become shit

[Mashed Potatoes]

19 minutes ago, Darrenbot said:

It shows our lack of depth in the squad when 2 of our better players miss out we suddenly become shit

Given the open nature of the division, I suspect that will be true of the majority of teams.

[booth]

2 hours ago, Oldgregg86 said:

I think Gallagher and hedges are two massive losses. We transform from a decent side to a pretty weak and inexperienced one without them

Hedges mainly as he can be a handful, and Gallagher can surprise the oppo with a goal so they have to keep an eye on him. Compared to Vale/Hirst he's world class.
 

[chaddyrovers]

7 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

You have to be on the wind up here Chad

Explain to me why Hirst deserves a start over: Vale, Dolan, DACK or even Markanday / Leonard?

I don't do wind ups Dreams as you should really know given my long-term posting history on here

Firstly, Dack and Markanday aren't strikers. 

Leonard isn't ready yet. 

I think Vale is better coming off the bench. So Yes, I would start Hirst if Gallagher were not fit enough to start. I won't write him off like many others have, and I will back the Rovers recruitment department, Gregg Broughton and Jon Dahl Tomasson. 

[chaddyrovers]

5 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

 

You have been very consistent in thinking that Hirst and Vale are of the quality required. Is this belief at all in any way reducing?

No there isn't. 

5 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Vale has never shown anything, he is slow, he is weak, he doesn't ever look like scoring, and worst of all, he doesn't even work hard, there was once in particular last night when Brereton pressed and was trying to usher Vale to press with him and he didn't. He couldn't score regularly in non league, do you think a loan spell would be good or he should stay in the first team squad?

No I would keep here within the first team squad and learning under JDT stewardship 

5 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

And Hirst, wow. He is so weak, the ball goes up to him and never sticks. His control is embarrassing, the ball span up twice from his touch yesterday hitting his hand! Any thoughts of sending him back in January and getting someone else?

No, I would keep him here for the season. I still think there is a player there and he had a similar spell at Portsmouth at the start then in November he scored his first goal for them, and he improved more after Christmas time and ended with 13 goals. So maybe he needs to be fully match fit first. 

5 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

On a wider scale, do you have any concerns that away from home midweek, we are so poor? Whether it is a case of Tomasson messing too much when we have 3 games in a week or a question of character whereby midweek away from home, we struggle?

I mentioned this last night at work that we struggled away from home midweek and as @goozburgerpost in the Jon Dahl Tomasson highlights this. It is somewhat a concern but another post from @MarkBRFCseems like we struggled midweek for long period time away from home. 

5 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

And also, do you have any concerns that when we concede, we don't comeback? Tomasson has an exemplary record when we go ahead which he deserves plenty of credit for, but equally, can he change things when we go behind? He often makes poor subs and makes them too late, again the case last night.

The Sky Commentator mentioned that they were a couple of other teams who are similar to us. Highlights how important the first goal is at this level especially away from home.  

JDT does has questions about how last he left it last night. I did comment on Travis playing wing back last night saying he didn't get forward and it didn't work playing him there. Also said he left his subs far too late last night. Would have like to see Pickering and Dolan on much sooner and us switch to playing 4-2-3-1 formation much sooner. So yes, some concerns but I would say that overall, it's been very good start to the season, and we are much higher in the league then I thought we would be given the number of things I have mentioned in previous posts to you on similar subject 

[Bohinen1983]

Nobody else think we're woefully short in centre mid? Morton, Wharton, Buckley are carbon copies off each other to varyiKhad Bradley Johnson and to a lesser degree even Davenport.  I think we're very limited in there now in terms of mixing it up.  We can't control games and are fairly predictable.  I'm a massive fan of having players that carry a threat. That put the opposition on the back foot.  I forgot about Khadra- another player that gives the opposition something to think about.  Just a very 'meh' side. Massively punching as shown by the xg table.  Finish around 17th imo.  Saying that, for once we have a solid defence so you never know.

[roversfan99]

10 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

No there isn't. 

No I would keep here within the first team squad and learning under JDT stewardship 

No, I would keep him here for the season. I still think there is a player there and he had a similar spell at Portsmouth at the start then in November he scored his first goal for them, and he improved more after Christmas time and ended with 13 goals. So maybe he needs to be fully match fit first. 

I mentioned this last night at work that we struggled away from home midweek and as @goozburgerpost in the Jon Dahl Tomasson highlights this. It is somewhat a concern but another post from @MarkBRFCseems like we struggled midweek for long period time away from home. 

The Sky Commentator mentioned that they were a couple of other teams who are similar to us. Highlights how important the first goal is at this level especially away from home.  

JDT does has questions about how last he left it last night. I did comment on Travis playing wing back last night saying he didn't get forward and it didn't work playing him there. Also said he left his subs far too late last night. Would have like to see Pickering and Dolan on much sooner and us switch to playing 4-2-3-1 formation much sooner. So yes, some concerns but I would say that overall, it's been very good start to the season, and we are much higher in the league then I thought we would be given the number of things I have mentioned in previous posts to you on similar subject 

What does Vale offer and what have you seen from him in terms of attributes that makes you different from basically everyone else in thinking that he is competent?

Same with Hirst, you must be seeing something that you like about him that nobody else is? Surely being under "JDT's stewardship" alone isn't enough encouragement, just because he used to be a striker doesn't make him a miracle worker.

Of course the first goal is important, but it is typical that you just bat off any potential worries and weaknesses, if it was as simple as that, teams would pack up and go home if they conceded. The first goal is important but it shouldn't be terminal 100% of the time, which is why on the flip side that our record when we score first is so impressive.

I have commended Tomasson on the good start and the positives, including some of the signings. But he isn't perfect and the inability of the manager when we go behind is a concern, and not all of the signings under his stewardship will be successful ones. Tomasson himself left Hirst out of the 18 for the 4 games prior to last nights shit show, all of which we won, so he clearly isn't convinced himself which surely concerns you?

[Blue blood]

30 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I don't do wind ups Dreams as you should really know given my long-term posting history on here

Firstly, Dack and Markanday aren't strikers. 

Leonard isn't ready yet. 

I think Vale is better coming off the bench. So Yes, I would start Hirst if Gallagher were not fit enough to start. I won't write him off like many others have, and I will back the Rovers recruitment department, Gregg Broughton and Jon Dahl Tomasson. 

Dack is moreof a striker than Hirst and Vale. And yes I know that's not his position. 

Goodness Ayala up top is a better bet than those two. 

Also - and this is key- there's a difference between writing someone off and thinking they are currently nowhere near the level needed at present. Currently both are offering us nothing. 

[Dreams of 1995]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

I don't do wind ups Dreams as you should really know given my long-term posting history on here

Firstly, Dack and Markanday aren't strikers. 

Leonard isn't ready yet. 

I think Vale is better coming off the bench. So Yes, I would start Hirst if Gallagher were not fit enough to start. I won't write him off like many others have, and I will back the Rovers recruitment department, Gregg Broughton and Jon Dahl Tomasson. 

Dack is more of a striker than Hirst

And Hirst didn’t play as a striker. He played as a wide forward

Something else Dack is better than him at 

In fact, name an area of the pitch that Dack isn’t better than Hirst at? Or Vale. 

You know, the whole notion of “strikers” is fading. They are attackers nowadays - they play all along the front line. Dack is a far better attacker than Hirst and therefore I have every faith he could do better than Hirst in the forward role 

[bazza]

If and when Bradley gets to start a game we should be singing......

He's back, back in the Rovers groove. It's Dack, back in the Rovers groove.

Check a group called "Hello" for that.

[Blue blood]

2 hours ago, booth said:

Hedges mainly as he can be a handful, and Gallagher can surprise the oppo with a goal so they have to keep an eye on him. Compared to Vale/Hirst he's world class.
 

Would agree with this. In many ways - in his best position - Gally is an average championship striker at best. And if we had another average championship striker as cover there'd be much less issues. The problem is as you say the other two are utterly appalling and offer nothing. It's like playing with 10 men. Even a minor amount of vaguely adequate cover and we'd be in a miles better position. 

[Armchair supporter supremo]

On 01/11/2022 at 20:17, booth said:

He probably sees about as much as you do but he's not spoilt for choice is he.

The ghost of Tony Mowbray and his dislike of centre forwards still haunts the club (along with Gregg Broughton's bizarre belief that Hirst is the answer).

He had other options! 

[booth]

6 minutes ago, Armchair supporter supremo said:

He had other options! 

Other options but no decent centre forwards.

[Beanie01289]

13 hours ago, Herbie6590 said:

Not sure how this type of thing is remotely helpful TBH 

Mildly amusing the first time with Chris Brown not helpful at all tho. And that was a player coming to the end of his career who has seen it all and he kinda sees the funny side according to the way he told the story on his podcast. But for a young player trying to establish himself stuff like this is not in the slightest bit helpful or even funny.

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

What does Vale offer and what have you seen from him in terms of attributes that makes you different from basically everyone else in thinking that he is competent?

Like I posted to you on the 20th June when we were talking about Vale. I said this. Not writing him off at all. " His movement, ability to finish, running in behind defence are the things I think are his strengths. "

 

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Same with Hirst, you must be seeing something that you like about him that nobody else is? Surely being under "JDT's stewardship" alone isn't enough encouragement, just because he used to be a striker doesn't make him a miracle worker.

its another question that has been asked before and reply. JDT and GB pick him has his first choice striker. JDT knows about strikers. 

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Of course the first goal is important, but it is typical that you just bat off any potential worries and weaknesses, if it was as simple as that, teams would pack up and go home if they conceded. The first goal is important but it shouldn't be terminal 100% of the time, which is why on the flip side that our record when we score first is so impressive.

cos I don't worry like you do. Its will take time but I'm sure we will get there. 

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I have commended Tomasson on the good start and the positives, including some of the signings. But he isn't perfect and the inability of the manager when we go behind is a concern, and not all of the signings under his stewardship will be successful ones. Tomasson himself left Hirst out of the 18 for the 4 games prior to last nights shit show, all of which we won, so he clearly isn't convinced himself which surely concerns you?

No didn't concern at all cos JDT explained the situation around Hirst not playing in those games. 

[Mattyblue]

Same old questions from you ‘99, he told you that, *checks calendar* five months ago!

Edited November 3, 2022 by Mattyblue

[dingles staying down 4ever]

10 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Would agree with this. In many ways - in his best position - Gally is an average championship striker at best. And if we had another average championship striker as cover there'd be much less issues. The problem is as you say the other two are utterly appalling and offer nothing. It's like playing with 10 men. Even a minor amount of vaguely adequate cover and we'd be in a miles better position. 

Dont get the Gallagher is an average striker at best comment. Play him down the middle we won 4 games on the bounce and the game we are missing him we lose.

Granted playing him wide is a waste of a player but down the middle he is a handful for most at this level when his confidence high.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

11 hours ago, Bohinen1983 said:

Nobody else think we're woefully short in centre mid? Morton, Wharton, Buckley are carbon copies off each other to varyiKhad Bradley Johnson and to a lesser degree even Davenport.  I think we're very limited in there now in terms of mixing it up.  We can't control games and are fairly predictable.  I'm a massive fan of having players that carry a threat. That put the opposition on the back foot.  I forgot about Khadra- another player that gives the opposition something to think about.  Just a very 'meh' side. Massively punching as shown by the xg table.  Finish around 17th imo.  Saying that, for once we have a solid defence so you never know.

I think we are just short of numbers in there when we play as a two in there. Most teams now play with a three and we just get outnumbered. Travis in there helps as he is a different type of player so you maybe right but when we play with Travis in a two our midfield is very limited. 

[roversfan99]

13 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Like I posted to you on the 20th June when we were talking about Vale. I said this. Not writing him off at all. " His movement, ability to finish, running in behind defence are the things I think are his strengths. "

 

its another question that has been asked before and reply. JDT and GB pick him has his first choice striker. JDT knows about strikers. 

cos I don't worry like you do. Its will take time but I'm sure we will get there. 

No didn't concern at all cos JDT explained the situation around Hirst not playing in those games. 

Just because Tomasson was a striker as a player doesn't really mean anything in this context, although he clearly isn't that big a fan of Hirst hence why he wasn't in the squad throughout our winning run. Hopefully he will be sent back to Leicester in January and we can get someone else.

I haven't seen any of that ability to finish from Vale, nor his movement, he is bone idle.

[booth]

30 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I haven't seen any of that ability to finish from Vale, nor his movement, he is bone idle.

The frustrating thing about it is he put in a shift against against Hull to grind out the result, and against Coventry he didn't seem to have any urgency about him for what was a big opportunity. A very lazy showing against a poor side. If he can't shine when playing against teams down the bottom of the league, suffering from illness and injury then he never will.

If Gallagher had played in place of him against Coventry we'd have got something out of it. All it needed was someone to show some physicality and application.

I'll be very disappointed if he starts again this season, I'd rather see Dolan up front.

[rigger]

If Hirst plays again this season for the Rovers, I will turn the plait I made on Tuesday back into sawdust.

[Dreams of 1995]

Garret's red card has been rescinded.

We could all see it, never a red card in a million years, and let's hope the boy keeps tackling because he's a good en

Certainly doesn't lunge into every tackle like some accusations. Nothing wrong with a bit of youthful exuberance. Our squad has lacked passion for years now